Sorry if I offend anyone, but had to share

[Super Dave]

I think it is also a good time to point out that right now everyone who pays taxes (myself included) is supporting the troops with
 and  whatever else the troops need. Unless someone knows a way to get back your taxes that are going towards this war, monetarally we are all supporting the war and the troops, whether we agree with the war or not, or whether we support the troops or not.

But how much do you pay?  You get your taxes back? (Student?  Grants, Loans? etc?)  Or do you make more money than I where you actually pay in a substantial amount that you don't get returned at tax time? (Another tangent...)

[Super Dave]

I'll prolly get a lot of flames from people, but I really dont care.  This all is getting pretty old. You all can say all you want that I am unpatriotic and unAmerican or that I'm not suporting our troops  or whatever.  I really dont care.

Nah, I don't think anyone spreads any flames here.

You have some good points.  Unfortunately, I've got so many things going on here before school on Thursday, I can't completely respond.

But, you have good insight.  And it's fun.  So, don't quit on us now.

At what point would you feel that war would be justified, Jen?  

In my examples above with Nate and his cousin, we called the police in to do their thing.  In Iraq, we have sent troops there to do their thing.  The interests of soldiers are trying to bring ...

 

perpetrators to justice.  I would support them as people doing the respectable thing, because they believe that it is a just cause

Here's a different side.

Saddam's and his regime believe that they have just cause to use chemical weapons against a village.  And to murder 200,000 women, children, and men after the first Persian Gulf War.  

I think that anyone can justify anything for "just"...  I guess when I think of just, I think of the morality of the decision.

So, now, is it morally just for the United States and the coalition to go in to try and stop what is happening.

Nazi Germany "justified" their exermination of Jews.  We could probably come up with some "justification" on what happens in Israel, but let's not go there now.

Next, is it morally incorrect to knowingly allow someone like Saddam to kill people, torture them, etc?  I believe that this basically falls under the heading of transfered self defense;  I someone cannot defend themselves, you are obligated to help them.  I would follow that it is "unjustified" to NOT take action.  The bonus is the fact that we will beable to secure some slowing down of the spread and training of terrorists.  

Thoughts?

[MightyDuc Racing]

You all do race motorcycles, right?  :P

[Super Dave]

You all do race motorcycles, right?  :P

LOL...  Well, I don't think Jen and Dawn do...  But they are allowed...LOL!

[Super Dave]

The ingenuity and integrity of the American soldier might be beyond any fighting force ever.  It doesn't just come from the idea of "doing a job", but it comes from doing a job for the right reason.  Were it not for the American soldier...we would not be...

Got a nice e-mail...

I want you to close your eyes and picture in your mind the soldier at Valley Forge, as he holds his musket in his bloody hands. He stands barefoot in the snow, starved from lack of food, wounded from months of battle and emotionally scarred from the eternity away from his family surrounded by nothing but death and carnage of war. He stands though, with fire in his eyes and victory on his breath. He looks at us now in anger and disgust and tells us this...

I gave you a birthright of freedom born in the Constitution and now your children graduate too illiterate to read it.

I fought in the snow barefoot to give you the freedom to vote and you stay at home because it rains.

I left my family destitute to give you the freedom of speech and you remain silent on critical issues, because it might be bad for business.

I orphaned my children to give you a government to serve you and it has stolen democracy from the people.

It's the soldier, not the reporter who gives you the freedom of the press.

It's the soldier, not the poet who gives you the freedom of speech.

It's the soldier, not the campus organizer who allows you to demonstrate.

It's the soldier, who salutes the flag, serves the flag, whose coffin is draped with the flag that allows the protester to burn the flag!!!

The fortitude of the American Soldiers in Iraq is to do the right thing, take care of business...  They know what Saddam has done.  I think they understand what is right.  There is a sense of morality in this issue?  

[Nate R]

How much Jen in particular pays is beside the point. I know Jen didn't make anything over the standard deduciton this year. But, if you're a college student for instance who doesnt pay taxes because you only make 3K/yr w/ your part time job, should that mean you shouldn't vote?

Wait, isn't about 20-35 cents/gallon of gas Federal tax? So, Jen DID pay SOMETHING to the feds this past year.  ;)

Either way, I think both SD and Jen made some good points, and it was interesting to read through.

Jef4y: LOL! My thoughts as well --->

Who put the nickel in Dave & when does it run out?

[Super Dave]

I'm the Energizer Bunny!  LOL!

I thought I didn't want to go on the tax tangent!

I don't expect her to pay federal tax, as it seems I'm correct.  Does that give anyone less of a vote...no, obviously not.  

And gas taxes go toward roads, not towards military expendatures.  I guess it depends upon how you look at it.

[Nate R]

Yeah. but since some of her $ went to pay for roads and such, that frees up more $ for military/defense use, right?  ;) ;D :P ::)

[Dawn]

Yeah. but since some of her $ went to pay for roads and such, that frees up more $ for military/defense use, right?  ;) ;D :P ::)

Please stop......

Another tangent!!!!!   :o

LOL!!!!

Dawn   :)

[Super Dave]

Yeah. but since some of her $ went to pay for roads and such, that frees up more $ for military/defense use, right?  ;) ;D :P ::)

LOL! True.

But also more funds for Welfare for the people that will be out of work when terrorists destroy more stuff in the US.  They destroy companies that can't afford to rebuild, loose jobs...

No companies and no work...no revenue.

Then there will be no funding for universities and colleges because a lack of revenue.  

More people on welfare...  more crime...

Can I stop, Dawn....
 :D

[Chef]

Please stop......

Another tangent!!!!!   :o

LOL!!!!

Dawn   :)

WHERE  the HELL is THURSDAY ?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Dawn,
Super_Dave,
Jeff,
Super_Duck,
Nate,
Jen,
SpeedBaller347,
SDiver68,
GsxracerMike,
harb990,
AM#996, :)
Mongrel,
MightyDuc Racing,
K3,
Dave(Dahustla),

ANYBODY seen THURSDAY 4/3/03 ????????????

>:(<explicit> (D$%*@!$*!!!) >:(

Ike

  
oh,>:( and no, my bike is not ready >:(

can we just get to it

[Super Dave]

LOL!   ;D ;D :D 8)

I would like to sit down and have a beer...  But I can't drink beer anymore...  Makes me "stranger" than I already am... :-/