Why ther is no difference between 1098s and 1198r

[Cowboy 6]

Well, an incoherent "cock sucking, mother fucking, pussy asshole" this that & the other filled rant isn't going to have much of an effect other than putting a large pointy DUNCE cap on the author.

Do you kiss your wife with that mouth?

[gpz11]

The way the guys are whining, I figured I'd see 1098 / 1198's winning every class they are eligible for. I only saw 2 outright wins, Expert Supertwins along with a win in F40 and it was the only Duc in that class.

Otherwise the best finish was a 2nd in Am F40 and a 3rd in Expert GTO.

This was from Firebird 2/7 & 8

Not exactly running away with the wins.

Didn't see any in the results from Firebird in January.

I guess my thought is if you are tired of getting beat by a 1098, go buy one and quit your whining.

[Jeff]

Do you kiss your wife with that mouth?

Wife, Kids, Mother, sure...  I was making a point about the original poster (and referencing basically his own words).  I didn't mean to offend you if I did.

[RAISING CANE]

Old people are just like babies as we get older we whine and need our diaper changed sometimes. Some of you guys that only race 4 times a year should come down here and race 40 times a year and get a true feel for what is happening on the track.
I understand and can live with the HWSB rules as a SB built 750 may be able to run with a stock 1098 but I have not seen it. I would like to see F40 use HWSS rules not SB.
Seems that this subject is like poitics and religion everyone has their opinion.
I have had my eye open for a 1098 but still a little pricey 4 this low budget racer.

[Cowboy 6]

I just don't see how, when a 2-cylinder bike is given a 20% displacement advantage over its 4-cyl competitors (i.e., 1198's vs. 1000's), and it regularly wins, how a 46.67% displacement advantage for a 2-cyl over a 750cc 4-cylinder is fair. 

LIghtweight is the same deal.  Buell and BMW with their 1200 cc have a 56% displacement advantage over the actual lightweight bikes in the class that only have 650cc. For some reason oil or air cooled HP doesn't propel a motorcycle as well as watercooled HP. I checked BMW specs for the R1200S HP= 122 w/ TQ = 83 stock! SV 650 HP=70 w/TQ = 42 stock. Yeah, that's about even. Hmm 122, that's even a little high for a middleweight bike. What about weight you say? Well, yes the BMW weighs in a 470 lbs, but that is WITH 4.5 gallons of fuel, ready to go. The SV? 438. That's only 32 lbs. The  2007 Ninja 650? 65.5 HP and 439 lbs. Buell VB12R?  103 HP,,84 lbs TQ at only 385 lbs! A 2007 GSXR 600? 99 hp and  438 lbs.
     Pounds / HP?                          Pounds / ft lbs Torque?
Ninja 650===== 6.70:1                     9.98:1       "Lightweight" bike
SV650======= 6.25:1                     9.73:1     
BMWR1200R=== 3.85:1                     5.66:1
Buell XB12R===  4.25:1                     5.21:1       not "Lightweight" bike
GSXR 600===== 4.06:1                     8.93:1

If that isn't enough, how many REAL lightweights can even approach a 1:16 at Summit?

[Cowboy 6]

Wife, Kids, Mother, sure...  I was making a point about the original poster (and referencing basically his own words).  I didn't mean to offend you if I did.

No problem, just kind of foul. No use stooping to his level.

[123user]

If you're race prep'd SV weighs 438 with 20 gallons of fuel...  you've got a problem!

Like I said before, if your bike ain't the new hotness, then go buy the one you think will make you faster.

If you're not spending 40-50 hours a week improving you're ride, you've got no reason to bitch.  There are stupid- fast SV's, as well as GSXR-750's... but it takes some ambition to get there.  It also takes ambition to maintain Ducatis and Buells. 

If you sit around on you're ass, watching tv all winter,  and expect you're 10 year old SV to still be competive you're living the fantasy.

As far as I can tell, stock sv's and ex650's have been pushed down to ULSB so they can continue to be competitive.  Is that fair to guys on Hawks and EX500's... nope, but that's how progress works.

By the way, my 1000SS has P/W of 3.2 hp/lb (340lb and 107hp), which is just about where a properly built SV700 should be (300lb and 95hp).  A Honda RS250 has about 2.8 hp/lb, so is it not a lightweight bike?

I don't know about everybody else here, but I'm a pretty untalented rider.  I realized quite a while back that "it's me" not "the bike".  But I guess ego's and introspection are mutually exclusive.

[Cowboy 6]

If you're race prep'd SV weighs 438 with 20 gallons of fuel...  you've got a problem!

I was quoting off the showroom floor for all bikes to keep apples with apples. If you want to get ridiculous, drive on. I'm out.

[mwsportsimaging]

Try to remember what a superbike is.  Not everyone is here just to prove their riding skills.  Many compete for the challenge of building a better bike.  Superbike is a test of rider skill, mechanical knowledge, and risk management.  As an engineer, I can find many opportunities to build a better race bike from almost any stock machine.  The 1098 is a little different.  The stock machine is very close to an all out race bike, so there is not a lot left for a club racer to do.  That being said, I have infinitely more respect for the racer/builder who takes a street bike and makes it fast than someone who opens their checkbook every couple of years and buys the latest and greatest from Bologna.  The point is the class allows for nearly unlimited modification, and if you do not to take advantage of that, then you should not expect to be competitive.  The same is true if you are up against a 1098, or an AMA quality GSXR 750.  In the end, any bike legal in the class if taken to the limit of the rules would have a dramatic advantage, and an astronomical price tag.

[123user]

I understand what you're doing. But one must analyze realities when making comparisons between bikes.  If you compare P/W on a new GSXR750 to a new RC51, it would appear that the GSXR-750 was better "off the showroom floor".  I think that HRC proved that wasn't the case a few years back.

I also don't totally agree that somehow twins are magically easier to ride.  All of those I've owned (3 hawks, a 1000ss, and a TL1000) did some pretty nasty stuff on corner entrance and downshifts.  Can you get on the throttle earlier... I don't know... can YOU?

Since I realize that I'm a talentless, 6'2", 230lb, ogre, I concentrate on the bike building process to help me finish.  That's what I enjoy.  If some little midget is fast but doesn't know which way to turn a bolt, I don't feel too bad for them.

[ahastings]

Old people are just like babies as we get older we whine and need our diaper changed sometimes. Some of you guys that only race 4 times a year should come down here and race 40 times a year and get a true feel for what is happening on the track.
I understand and can live with the HWSB rules as a SB built 750 may be able to run with a stock 1098 but I have not seen it. I would like to see F40 use HWSS rules not SB.
Seems that this subject is like poitics and religion everyone has their opinion.
I have had my eye open for a 1098 but still a little pricey 4 this low budget racer.

f40 was hwss rules up for a couple yrs  but people bitched so they switched it back to hwsb now people are bitching again. if you can afford 40 weekends a yr you surely can afford a ducati if its such a huge advantage. at that pace there must have already been about 4 races down there already this year because you would have to race 3 out of every 4 weekends to race that much.

[RAISING CANE]

not 40 w/e's........ 40 races a season. 10 w/e 4 races per.
And I do think I can afford a Duc, it's my wife who thinks I can't!
If I could only convince her.