Why ther is no difference between 1098s and 1198r

[Jeff]

While a purely speculative statement, I have to giggle at the thought of Ducati being in bed with CCS to sell more bikes.  If that were the case, you'd be running the Ducati Cup, or the X class sponsored by Ducati... 

I'm pretty sure that's high on Kevin's wish list, but far from reality...

[skiandclimb]

Hmmm....interesting to see this P.O.V. from the F40 guys.  I can unerstand why this pisses some people off. 1098s is a badass bike!

On the complete opposite side of this coin, I am pissed that my ten year old 996 is limited to so few classses.  And also why the 748's aren't allowed in LW (Didn't WERA allow them in finally?)

Its just funny, in my eyes, it seems CCS HATES anything with Desmodromic valving, but allows the quentisential Duc beast 1098 run off with it in other classes.

Sounds like F40 needs a new structure.  I unerstood the run what ya brung mentaility back in the day, but now, 40 years old isn't even "middle age" so, to think anyone runnning it is only there to whimsically lap the track all in the name of fun, seems a bit of a provencial attitude these days, dontcha think?

F50, anyone? 

OK, I'll shut up now before I receive more spite hits on my karma...      

[kl3640]

Mike, he has gone through the "channels" and more than a few have complained. A well sorted 600 can run with a 750 on corner speed and just that most of us club racers cant use all the throttle anyway, but these inline 4's have NO chance against these 1000cc Ducs. That's why my $ won't go to a F40 class that i actually looked forward to riding a couple years ago. Not now.
I know some 848's are pushing 140 LEGAL hp , with 2x the torque of a 600 inline. Im not sure what the fix is for the class, but F40 is broken.. I know Robby and Mavros are PISSED. There are others too but wont post names as they are not as vocal.
thanks for not takin me down Robby. Taco with sour cream on the side commin up.

+1, I'm one of the others, and I've also made inquiries with CCS.  Also, besides F40, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HWSB an issue still, even with only the 1098's (not the 1198's) being legal?   It's just not an even competition.  Look at these stock (tested, not claimed) #'s:

HP:134-----127
TQ:70-----58

The first column is for a Ducati...but an 848, not even a 1098!  I believe that the 1098 has a claimed HP of 160 - so I don't know what that actually measures out to at the RW, but I'm guessing at least in the 140's.  That kind of power on a 750 requires a very high-grade, full-on SS build (to get to the low 140's).  Then, if the 1098 has anything at all done to it, the gap increases, and then you're talking about full-on SBK builds for the 750's.

Even if one makes the argument that the cost evens outs because of the higher purchase and maintenance price for the Ducs, the fact is that Duc with the stock or SS motor is going to have a reliability advantage over the 750SBK, not to mention the torque advantage.

I just don't see how, when a 2-cylinder bike is given a 20% displacement advantage over its 4-cyl competitors (i.e., 1198's vs. 1000's), and it regularly wins, how a 46.67% displacement advantage for a 2-cyl over a 750cc 4-cylinder is fair.  The performance gap between twins and inline 4's (given other technology being equal, like liquid cooling, multi-valves, etc) is just not that great any longer.

[MELK-MAN]

1098 is legal hwsSPORT too.. not just superbike.

[ahastings]

1098 is legal hwsSPORT too.. not just superbike.

no it isnt.
HEAVYWEIGHT SUPERSPORT (Amateur & Expert Divisions)
Twin cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 1000cc
Four cylinder, liquid cooled, up to 775cc
All other engine configurations, Unlimited displacement

[ahastings]

think about this guys. the 1098 was only made for in 07 and 08, so there will be no progression in that bike. Also, look at the cost of a 1098. If you put that amount of money into building a true superbike 750 within the rules it would be plenty competetive with a 1098. And for the guy that said it wouldnt be as reliable as a Ducati, you have obviously never raced a Ducati.

[RAISING CANE]

The problems are with HWSB and F40 (that goes by HWSB rules)
HWSS seems fine as they were wise enough to allow only 1000cc v-twins

The real deal is that prolly 95% of the people running HWSS also run in HWSB with the same SS bike.
How many do you know that have a second SB machine??? Very few I assure you, most are there on 1 bike and it is almost always a SS.

There fore with the 1098 in HWSB I do not run that class and now am considering dropping F40 also!
I think this sucks cause I like the F40 but do not want to throw money away either.
I may be over 40 but I don't go to the expense and take the risks for the hell of it I go to WIN!

[Mongo]

I thought people whined less as they got older....  :)

[ahastings]

The problems are with HWSB and F40 (that goes by HWSB rules)
HWSS seems fine as they were wise enough to allow only 1000cc v-twins

The real deal is that prolly 95% of the people running HWSS also run in HWSB with the same SS bike.
How many do you know that have a second SB machine??? Very few I assure you, most are there on 1 bike and it is almost always a SS.

There fore with the 1098 in HWSB I do not run that class and now am considering dropping F40 also!
I think this sucks cause I like the F40 but do not want to throw money away either.
I may be over 40 but I don't go to the expense and take the risks for the hell of it I go to WIN!

that is the most twisted logic I have ever seen for removing a bike from a class. Because you dont build your bike to the class rules they should take another bike out. By your logic 750s shouldnt be allowed in the heavyweight class either because in reality 95% of that class is 600s anyway. I just dont see the problem with the 1098 in hwt sb. And i raced an 848 last year and the only time I got beat by a 1098 all year was at Daytona. And this year I am racing a 750.

[benprobst]

that is the most twisted logic I have ever seen for removing a bike from a class. Because you dont build your bike to the class rules they should take another bike out. By your logic 750s shouldnt be allowed in the heavyweight class either because in reality 95% of that class is 600s anyway. I just dont see the problem with the 1098 in hwt sb. And i raced an 848 last year and the only time I got beat by a 1098 all year was at Daytona. And this year I am racing a 750.

+1. Just because someones bike is slow and they dont build it to the class rules doesnt mean the faster bike should be taken out. These numbers people are puttin out are waaay off too. That or they need to learn to use a dyno. My bone stock 04/05 750 with an exhaust and a cheap lockhart phillips preloaded fuel map box with just a bit of dyno work made 138 dj/hp. And it got walked by every new 750 I ran across torwards the front of the pack. The 1098's I ran across on occasion were nothing like the 1000's when and if they came by you. The only 1098 that I ran across was that silly fast superbike a guy in the MW had built. That thing was ridiculous, but it was a superbike and I was on a SS bike.

[MELK-MAN]

ahh. the 1098 is not legal for hwss. Ok. Not sure why i thought it was.. Still a bummer about f40. As far as "not many of them", come race FL region! ...lol.. It is like little Italy down here on race day, and Chris Boy at Motocorse is makin em pretty darn fast. Barret Long is just crazy fast, no matter what he rides.

[123user]

Exactly Ben,

We're not talking about 7 bike per year builds from HRC or Bimota.  These machines are available at the store, for anyone to purchase.  You want the best... open you're wallet!

This same crappy line of logic has been circulating the LW classes for years now concerning the XB-12R and 1000DS...  Thankfully, bikes continue to inprove, and as they improve the class structure changes.

If you want to be competetive on the same ride for many years, I'd recommend AHRMA or WERA vintage.  

Dude... time goes forward not backwards... get over it!