Nice letter in RRW, Ed.

[JBraun]

I ran the first few rounds of 2006 as an amateur, before taking a bump. I passed, and was passed by Marshall. I can say from my experience that he's not a kamakaze rider. In fact, he's one of the cleanest guys I've raced.
Everyone has a different opinion of what a safe pass is. When Marshall says he stands guys up, I think he's referring to being inside them on the brakes when they want to turn in. I know he would never dive bomb a guy at the apex. Rob Sobotka would, but not Marshall.
Just kidding Rob

[Jason748]

Jason, you can read? 

Yep.... I can even write too........ smart ass.  Done RE-rebuilding  your motor yet?

[r1owner]

I know he would never dive bomb a guy at the apex. Rob Sobotka would, but not Marshall.
Just kidding Rob

OUCH! :)

[Sobottka]

I know he would never dive bomb a guy at the apex. Rob Sobotka would, but not Marshall.
Just kidding Rob

[G 97]

Just one thought:

Remember, none of us get paid to do this.  We all have jobs and families to support.

Dawn  

One more thought.  Racing is not safe.  Nothing about it is safe.  It is a calculated risk at best.  Anyone who decides to take to the track, grid up and drop the hammer for the checkered; is automatically subjecting themselves to this risk.   We can try and identify this risk and we can try to manage it the best we can but in the end it is still not safe.

Please do not misconstrue these statements as showing support towards unsportsmanlike like activity while racing.  But it is racing and you only have control over your own actions.   Although I don't condone it or agree with it, over the years I have come to accept certain behavior from other racers – it comes along with the game. 

As stated prior you will not find a safer, more considerate racer than Marshall.  His article has more to do with trying to get out of his Control Riding/track day mentality of being way too nice and giving too much room.  We joke about this all the time - the "NESBA hesitation". This track day mentality has magnified his situation with regards to racing.   Interpret his article how you wish but please refrain from using it as a spring board for your own personal agenda.   

As always, Marshall is the man.

[EX#996]

I understand what you're saying Garth, and it was not directed towards Marshall in any way. 

Trust me I don't have a personal agenda.  It was a simple statement stressing when it is all said and done, this is afterall just club racing.  While that little chunk of wood may look good on your wall, it's not worth getting seriously injured over.   

My two cents and if it's a personal agenda, it's a damn cheap and good one at that.

Dawn   

[Sklossmonster]

Thanks for the props, kids, I'm glad to know it's not all in my head.  

Rob, you crack me up!  I remember many of those incidents all too well, and thanks again for not ass-packing me while I checked up right in front of you everytime I should've made a pass instead of sitting there paralyzed with the track day rider's syndrome.  And thanks for helping me learn how to finally make some of those passes, as I had to figure it out one way or another everytime you'd go by and start going away!

Jason, you're absolutely right.  There are definitely different interpretations of "standing someone up" and sometimes the reaction of the rider being passed has alot to do with how much they actually get stood up.  When I line someone up on the brakes, I feel like I am, in some way, "standing them up" because I have now taken their turn in point away from them, thus altering their normal procedure for that turn.  Very different from dive bombing someone's apex at the risk of both rider's necks and equipment.  Not to say I haven't been guilty of doing exactly that before, but I've always waved a heartfelt apology and tried to find the rider later to say it in person.  I think the better you get at racing the less you find yourself in that situation, but learning can be less than pretty sometimes.

Hawk,  I hear what you're saying, and you're right about my "animated style" of writing, which I'm more and more sure can be taken the wrong way ... unfortunate, but true.  One thing I would say though, about CCS versus AMA and any other top level of roadracing, last time I checked our CCS events have more than a few AMA racers on the grid, especially when it's an ASRA event.  In fact wasn't that 2-time WSBK Champion Doug Polen I saw charging through the entire field at Daytona in two laps from the back of the grid?  I know most CCS racers aren't professionals, but they did choose to go racing, and to Garth's point, racing is dangerous no matter how you slice it.  I don't want it to be anymore hairball than it already is, but one really good thing about track days is that now everyone has a place they can push the limits of themselves and their motorcycles without the added risks of a full-on racing environment, 'cuz I promise you if Doug Polen needs to stand you up for an $8000 Ducati purse, he's going to do it, and conidering the environment I can't say he's wrong for it.

I think an important distinction in this discussion is the notion of contact, and the relative position of each bike.  If there's no contact between the riders, I don't see a problem with a pass.  And in my mind, the bike in front has the line, if they can hold that line then it's now the passer who must take it away without initiating contact, if they can do that it's now the passer's line. Whoever inititiates contact from behind is clearly in the wrong, because they weren't able to take the line away cleanly.  I'm no expert, but that's kind of how I see it, at least at the moment.  I'm sure those with more skills and experience can add to that subject.

And just to be clear, if anyone one around here is "The Man" it's the GMan himself: AMA racer, NESBA Midwest Director, an MA, a BA, and a BMF besides!  (Thanks for everything, man, especially for that bump up from Beginner!)

[Sklossmonster]

Hey Dawn,

Funny that you say that ... one of the "Lessons" coming up in the next few installments of that series is that to me no bowling trophy is worth sending someone to the hospital over, and I'm sure that particular article will generate even more of this kind of discussion.  It's funny to me since it was written six months ago, but it raises an interesting issue:

At what point does a bowling trophy become something you risk even more for?  When it's a regional championship?  Or a National title?  Or an AMA round?  Or a WSBK round?  I suspect the answer is different for everyone, thus the psychos dive bombing apexes during an amateur club practice round, versus the rider who won't put his friend into a wall ... not even for a championship. 

Tough calls ... tough calls.

[G 97]

I understand what you're saying Garth, and it was not directed towards Marshall in any way. 

Trust me I don't have a personal agenda.  It was a simple statement stressing when it is all said and done, this is afterall just club racing.  While that little chunk of wood may look good on your wall, it's not worth getting seriously injured over.  

My two cents and if it's a personal agenda, it's a damn cheap and good one at that.

Dawn  

Hey Dawn,  Oops  Although I used your quote,  It was not meant towards you, specifically.  I was trying to generalize but did not make that clear as I should have. Sorry. :)

[tstruyk]

At what point does a bowling trophy become something you risk even more for?  When it's a regional championship?  Or a National title?  Or an AMA round?  Or a WSBK round? 

When its your job.. and your racing people that are doing their job as well, but there is still a level of respect that "should" be adhered to. 

at least IMHO.

Its a tough subject... I am sure we have all made a pass or 2 that may have not been the most opportune time or position.  That being said I am sure each of us have for whatever reason hesitated on making a pass to avoid making a potentially painful and expensive mistake in jusdgment.  Having the skill set and the knowledge to make that decision is really what we are discussing.  I have passed and been passed very close but very clean... (ask Jamie Hall about T1 at GIR!!!  )  I have also been passed where I feel the need to get out of the guy (or girls) way and have no desire to be near that person... and they never got within 2 feet of me...

Fortunalty things are a lot "cleaner" in the Ex ranks (based on my own personal experiences, your results may differ).  The racing is closer, but the risk seems to be reduced with control and decision making.  there will always be instances of "aggressive" riding or passes, I think the community at the track helps to self regulate that well.  Noone wants to see anyone get hurt, and I would hope that noone wants to be the one to cause someone to crash...but it will still happen

[Super Dave]

At what point does a bowling trophy become something you risk even more for?  When it's a regional championship?  Or a National title?  Or an AMA round?  Or a WSBK round?  I suspect the answer is different for everyone, thus the psychos dive bombing apexes during an amateur club practice round, versus the rider who won't put his friend into a wall ... not even for a championship. 

Tough calls ... tough calls.

Now, the good questions come...

Well, bowling trophies (LOL! I love that!) aren't worth squat.

But cash has value. 

With the AMA becoming more of a play land to the very, very well funded (riders pay for good rides), manufacturer contingency is still very popular venue for some to make a pretty decent living.  A better living that what a rider could make by winning at the AMA events.

To not recognize that racing has that kind of potential risk that Garth talks about is really the worst. 

But I haven't seen contingency races necessarily provide poor passing that I have seen in other races.  Seems like the bigger risk has been late year amateur events.

To tackle the aspect of anyone going fast in practice is another topic.  Practice is practice.  And it's a sterile opportunity to expirement.  Unfortunately, many club racers have the mind set that their fastest laps should come in traffic with other racers in actual competition where their mistakes under pressure cause the most harm to themselves and, potentially, the competitors around them.  If a rider has never done a lap time of "X", the bike is going to react differently when they push to that point and certain problems can be expected.  Additionally, as riders progress, those things become harder to learn.

[Jamie951]

... I have passed and been passed very close but very clean...(ask Jamie Hall about T1 at GIR!!!  )...

Good Times...Hope you are referring to that pass as a VERY CLEAN pass... :)