Nice letter in RRW, Ed.

[spyderchick]

Like an idiot, I let my RRW subscription lapse and have been too lazy to renew it.

Can somebody post the article?

Since it was a RRW article, it is protected by copyright. Also, most of us respect JU as a racer and as an editor, so you'll just have to go to your local B&N to read it.  wink

[spyderchick]

the most egregious example of racing poopiness. 

He said 'poopiness'. 

What? You've been hanging around Rhiannon? 

[tshort]

Interesting conversation.  It occurs to me that if someone enters a corner at the very limit of speed/traction, then physics would say that any change in balance of the bike (due to braking), speed (due to rolling on more), or line (due to standing up), would result, respectively, in a lowside, a runoff, or a runoff. Period.   Therefore, I, too raced according to what Ed said (and has already been quoted and confirmed by several in this thread): a clean pass is one in which the rider you're passing does not have to change his or her line.  K3's example made it clear - there are no ifs ands or buts.  It is not grey.  It is not ambiguous.  And yes, I've been punted off the track, and have the paint on my tail to prove it.  And yes, I've made a shaky pass or two (sorry, Kevin).
-T

PS - when is someone coming out to the Bay area to visit??  It's nice and warm here 

[spyderchick]

PS - when is someone coming out to the Bay area to visit??  It's nice and warm here 

Hey Tom: 

Thanks for taunting us in the frozen tundra! 

[Rich]

Since it was a RRW article, it is protected by copyright. Also, most of us respect JU as a racer and as an editor, so you'll just have to go to your local B&N to read it.  wink

Or steal Spooner's copy

[tshort]

Hey Tom: 

Thanks for taunting us in the frozen tundra! 

Ouch!  Your welcome, Spidey...     At least you can go ice racing there.  All I can do is ride through the redwoods here, watch the stupid ocean waves hitting Stinson Beach, and eat fresh oysters hot off the grill.  I know, I know - it's brutal.  Always could use some help, tho.   ::)

[JBraun]

Once I've turned in, if another rider suddenly appears beneath me and forces me to change my trajectory, he's 100% in the wrong, and I'm pissed.....  
.....As I turned in and set my knee puck on the asphalt, a gleaming silver wheel and yellow fender popped into my peripheral vison.  The tire took up a position 6 inches behind my knee, and paced it.  I recognizd the wheel as belonging to Ed, so I raised my knee up against the bodywork.  Having been given the 8 inches of pavement that my knee was occupying, Ed then completed his pass and was gone.
Abso-phucking-lutely magnificent!

K3, this is a massive contradiction. By your own rationale, you should have been furious about that pass.
If Ed turned inside of you while your knee was on the ground, he clearly must have altered your trajectory. Whether or not you HAD to pick up your knee is irrelevant, he stopped you from making it to your apex.
I'm not saying Ed's pass was wrong, I'm just saying that in racing it's nearly impossible to pass anyone without altering their line.

[Super Dave]

+1

Hence, Ed's appology.  But K3 would have made it to his apex had he not been track day gentlemanly.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Actually, since I wasn't battling anyone, the line I'd chosen had my kneepuck riding the edge of the track at the apex.  I'd surprised Ed by going in deeper than he'd expected, and he hadn't established a presence beside me before I turned in.  Ed put his bike where it would fit, and waited.  When I noticed him and lifted my leg out of his way, Ed ran his tires across the innermost edge of the pavement that I was using for my knee puck, thus putting his bike and body out over the grass.
Just the difference between an average racer out there having fun mid-pack, and a seasoned professional using every last millimeter of the pavement to win his class.  And he did it without changing my line.  I clearly saw that Ed's tire was pacing my knee.  If I hadn't lifted my knee, Ed would have tightened his line at the exit and passed me then.

[JBraun]

If I hadn't lifted my knee, Ed would have tightened his line at the exit and passed me then.

Bullshit.
Ed would have punted you off the outside of the track whilst lobbing you the bird and screaming profanity in his yellow helmet. Then he'd let out a maniacal laugh and continue on with his ruthless winning ways.

[PaulV]

Excellent topic of forum conversation and well written exchanges in RRW by both Marshall and Ed.
Having riden with Marshall for sometime now at NESBA events and last yrs CCS races, and racing with Ed coming from behind in almost every F40 race in the last 2 yrs, I've seen them both in action.
With that, I'd like to say that I would ride and race anytime with either of them, comfortably (not that I could stay with either of them though:).  Which makes this a really interesting conversation coming from what I believe to be two of the safest guys on the track. 
True, racing is racing, therefore a level of risk is to be expected over and above that of say track days.  But deep down I would hope that each of us knows what type of moves are considered sportsmanlike, and which ones are not.  The beauty of this forum exchange is to openly discuss them and hopefully for anyone who is unclear of whats accepted and what isn't, to gain an understanding.
The one thing that seems to stick with me when it comes to making the move or not, is "would I be comfortable with someone making the same move on me in a reverse situation?"  The ole do on to others....
I think most of us have had learning experiences that we can look back on where we have been on both sides of the "I owe you an apology" thing.

Good topic, good dialog

Paul
Polar-Optics
MW #79

[Sklossmonster]

Word