Nice letter in RRW, Ed.

[EX#996]

I know that there will be some that disagree with you, but personally, I thought it was well written and you had excellent points and rationale.

Dawn   

[benprobst]

which month?

[spyderchick]

The latest issue.

[PFinn]

I know that there will be some that disagree with you, but personally, I thought it was well written and you had excellent points and rationale.

Dawn  

I doubt many people will disagree........!

[Sklossmonster]

I won't say I disagree with the points Ed made in his letter, because he made some very good ones, but I do want to clarify a few things for his sake, and for anyone else who I feel similarly misinterpreted what I was trying to say by the statement, "No more Mr. Nice Guy."

First of all, anyone who knows me knows I've always been way too polite on track, even to the point of creating some potentially hazardous situations by not taking a pass when it presents itself and having a rider behind me check up when I didn't pass for fear it might upset the rider in front of me.  When I tried my hand at racing, these issues immediately came to the forefront, and I was forced to learn how to be more aggressive, not stupid, but aggressive.

Secondly, I wish we all had the luxury of spending five laps going to school on the rider in front, to see where you can best slip past with no muss and no fuss.  Unfortunately, in a 7 lap sprint, which is often less than that due to red flags, etc... you simply don't have time to wait around for one of the thirty riders in front of you to offer the perfect passing opportunity while the riders behind you are trying to get through, especially on a narrow, twisty track, that's usually less than 2 miles around.

If we only had twenty riders on the grid, and 45 feet of track width, in a 30 lap race, I'm sure the passing could be cleaner.  But we all know in a club sprint with lap traffic of all types, that just isn't the case.

I agree with Ed when he says sportsmanship and clean racing should take precedence over unchecked aggression and standing riders up at every opportunity, what I disagree with is the proposition that the only clean pass is the one that doesn't cause the other rider to alter his or her line in any way.

I don't believe "Rubbing is racing" but I do know that sometimes you can make a pass that doesn't alter someone else's line, and sometimes you can't.  I would never advocate rough riding, or contact between riders bodies or their bikes on track, but the aggression necessary to take the line and put your bike in front of another is, in my opinion, a necessary part of winning, at any level. 

We see MotoGP riders and AMA riders do this all the time.  The difference in my opinion, is that the riders they are usually passing have such well developed skills they can "check up" so slightly as to be barely noticeable.  Two top level riders often go through a corner side by side, battling for the line until one rider firmly establishes his or herself in front.  Each rider definitely forces the other rider to alter their line, but there's no contact between them.  No blood, no foul.

One of the things I like least about any form of competition in any sport is the reality that at some point winners can't be perfect gentlemen.  There's a fine line between good hard racing, and the kind of aggression Ed takes issue with in his letter.  I wish we had referees watching every pass, and instant replay to help determine what's allowed and what's not, unfortunately this is not the case.  And lacking that type of objectivity, good sportsmanship is left to the riders, and often subject to interpretation.

Ed, I sincerely believe you read what I was trying to say and took it in a way I did not intend.  I think you brought up some very good points in addressing the need for good sportsmanship on the racetrack, and I hope no one else out there read what I wrote and took it to mean the only way to win is to bang your way to the front, because that's certainly not what I meant, or what I do. 

I sure hope novice racers around the country aren't reading that article and taking it the way Ed did.  I reread it after reading Ed's letter and I still feel good about the message I was trying to convey, but I do have concerns that someone could read it the wrong way.

I'm curious as to how many other people interpreted it the same way Ed did.  It's too bad I'll never know.  Hopefully, as the series continues readers will take to heart some of the lessons in there that underscore exactly the same type of sportsmanship Ed and I would both like to see more of.  Only time will tell.

[EX#996]

Just one thought:

Remember, none of us get paid to do this.  We all have jobs and families to support.

Dawn   

[spyderchick]

Ed and I spoke when he decided to send his letter in, and one of the first things he told me was how much he enjoyed your articles, so I don't think that Ed has a beef with you personally, just the cowboy attitude that some racers have. In this world where words can be construed 20 different ways, it's always best to err on the side of caution when conveying a particular message. Everyone who knows you, understands that you're not that kamikaze pilot, but those who do not might get the wrong impression.

What I really appreciate is the fact that we can have a clean debate about the issues, I find both you and Ed to be gentleman, unfortunately, more a rarity than it ought to be. Keep writing the good stuff, Marshall, we all look forward to reading it.

[Sobottka]

well I've gotta say i didn't have that same reaction as ed and was a little surprised by it. maybe that's cuz i know marshall...I've done as much racing (bar to bar) with marshall as anyone and he is right when he says he is too polite on track. i haven't raced with anyone i feel safer with and have watched him not take many clean, open passes and wondered??? as an example- i remember a race at blackhawk where marshall lost the lead and a hard fought 2 sec gap on the last lap cuz he would have had to put a questionable pass (according to him-not me) on a lapper!! this was the norm for him, no unnessessary risk. marshall has been aware of this problem all along and we even joked about it coming from his control riding for nesba. while its hard to dispute what ed says in his letter, maybe racing with marshall gave me a little perspective that didn't come through in the story. i know ed has the best of intentions but i don't want anyone to get the wrong impression about marshall, he's a pretty good guy on and off the track... if he would just wash his bikes once in a while!

[Jason748]

I took what Marshall wrote differently than Ed did as well and I don't "know" Marshall either (unless you count having met him once at a NESBA track day).  It is racing, not a track day,  and I don't see anything wrong with safe aggressive pass.  But what Ed wrote also makes perfect sense and I can see exactly how he read it as well and his point of view.

I love reading your articles Marshall, that's some of the best writing I've seen in RRW lately! 

[251am]

 Well said Ed. 

[loc_dogg]

Jason, you can read? 

[HAWK]

I don't believe "Rubbing is racing" but I do know that sometimes you can make a pass that doesn't alter someone else's line, and sometimes you can't.  I would never advocate rough riding, or contact between riders bodies or their bikes on track, but the aggression necessary to take the line and put your bike in front of another is, in my opinion, a necessary part of winning, at any level.

I read Marshalls piece and came away with the same take as Ed, that may be due in part to having been the victim of some passes that were well above and beyond what Marshal is avocating. Also, having read Marshall's third installment, I find he has a rather animated writing style that may have exaggerated some points in a way not intended.

Take a moment and reread the paragraph above and think about something. If the response of the rider you are overtaking is as aggressive as your pass will you both be going to work tomorrow. Does anyone really believe that they have a greater right to a certain piece of track than anyone else? Aggression can escalate very quickly on the track and is therefore very dangerous. I understand the rather urgent need to make passes in a sprint race but the proper place to do that is in the braking area or the exit. To suddenly "show up" at the apex after a rider has extablished his line is just an invitation to distaster. In virtually all forms of racing when 2 drivers approach a turn together the driver who is leading at turn in "owns" the line and you have to either find a way to pass with taking that line away or get there leading the next time. Consider that a first race amateur could simply wait to brake until after you have and even though he has no hope of taking a clean line he  has passed you and you are  now on the hooks for all you are worth following him off the track. Finally there is no comparison between CCS and MotoGP or AMA, This is club racing, NOT professional racing.