Super Twins Racers need to read this

[251am]

 I guess I still don't understand the "exclusive" rationale per SuperTwins.

  SuperTwins can be run by SV650/1000, SuperHawks, TLs, RCs, and so on. Twins make up a minority of the paddock, where the majority is 4 cylinder 600s. I don't see the logic of excluding the SuperTwins class from acquiring overall or [AM to EX] points because I-4s are not allowed, in ONE class.  There are lots of classes that exclude the twins, but allow only I-4 600-750s.    

[cb186]

I guess I still don't understand the "exclusive" rationale per SuperTwins.

  SuperTwins can be run by SV650/1000, SuperHawks, TLs, RCs, and so on. Twins make up a minority of the paddock, where the majority is 4 cylinder 600s. I don't see the logic of excluding the SuperTwins class from acquiring overall or [AM to EX] points because I-4s are not allowed, in ONE class.  There are lots of classes that exclude the twins, but allow only I-4 600-750s.    

what classes exclude twins?

[Protein Filled]

I have never excluded a pair of twins!!!  ;D

Supersingles maybe? Oh wait, they exclude 4-cyls as well... ;)

what classes exclude twins?

[251am]

I have never excluded a pair of twins!!!  ;D

Supersingles maybe? Oh wait, they exclude 4-cyls as well... ;)

;D ;D    Double yer pleasure!   ;D ;D



 Offhand, I can't tell you exactly which classes exclude the twin I run, an RC51-everything LW, MW, etc, etc.. On the flip side of the coin I could run a 600 in lots more classes. Am I wrong?

  The only TRULY exclusive class is F40 by it's age requirement, but why that is excluded from points is beyond me as well. If you have a bike(s) to race and can do so in a manner according to the rulebook, why not let em compete in the points chase as well?

Are those of us running SuperTwins, F40, etc., paying less money in fees? No.

I can see where the new points structure can potentially remove the idea of buying a Championship. Awesome. It's a great new format that will create more competition w/o going towards spec. tire crap. However, why not let those of us who are out there racing SuperTwins/F40/Thunderbike/etc, race as competitors rather than ATM machines... ;)  

[cb186]

   
 ;D ;D    Double yer pleasure!   ;D ;D



 Offhand, I can't tell you exactly which classes exclude the twin I run, an RC51-everything LW, MW, etc, etc.. On the flip side of the coin I could run a 600 in lots more classes. Am I wrong?

  The only TRULY exclusive class is F40 by it's age requirement, but why that is excluded from points is beyond me as well. If you have a bike(s) to race and can do so in a manner according to the rulebook, why not let em compete in the points chase as well?

Are those of us running SuperTwins, F40, etc., paying less money in fees? No.

I can see where the new points structure can potentially remove the idea of buying a Championship. Awesome. It's a great new format that will create more competition w/o going towards spec. tire crap. However, why not let those of us who are out there racing SuperTwins/F40/Thunderbike/etc, race as competitors rather than ATM machines... ;)  

an RC51 is not a LW legal bike.

each weight class has provisions for both twin and multi cylinder bikes. Supertwins excludes anything that is not a twin. there is no MWSSILF(in line four) class.

[251am]

an RC51 is not a LW legal bike.

each weight class has provisions for both twin and multi cylinder bikes. Supertwins excludes anything that is not a twin. there is no MWSSILF(in line four) class.


    

  That's right. So, by that same reasoning you are utilizing, LW is an exclusive class. As is MWSB, as far as my twin is concerned, where liquid I-4s up to 660cc are allowed.

 MWSS-4 cylinder liquid cooled up to 640cc. No, there
is no MWSSI4 specific class. But the largest liquid cooled twin run here in MWSS is an 800cc bike, excluding the liquid cooled twins in SV/RC/TL/SuprChix arena. ( These points are a side argument in themselves.)

 Same licenses, same $$$, should bring the same results but they do not as far as Championship points and [Am--Ex] are concerned. Bizzare...Maybe I'm crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyy! :D  

[cb186]

 That's right. So, by that same reasoning you are utilizing, LW is an exclusive class. As is MWSB, as far as my twin is concerned, where liquid I-4s up to 660cc are allowed.

 MWSS-4 cylinder liquid cooled up to 640cc. No, there
is no MWSSI4 specific class. But the largest liquid cooled twin run here in MWSS is an 800cc bike, excluding the liquid cooled twins in SV/RC/TL/SuprChix arena. ( These points are a side argument in themselves.)

 Same licenses, same $$$, should bring the same results but they do not as far as Championship points and [Am--Ex] are concerned. Bizzare...Maybe I'm crazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzyyy! :D  

i dont understand your argument.

 twins are not excluded from any class whatsoever. I4's are excluded from Supertwins. are you saying you dont like the weight class breakdown?

i think you're crazy............. ;D

[JBraun]

 That's right. So, by that same reasoning you are utilizing, LW is an exclusive class. As is MWSB, as far as my twin is concerned, where liquid I-4s up to 660cc are allowed.

 MWSS-4 cylinder liquid cooled up to 640cc. No, there
is no MWSSI4 specific class. But the largest liquid cooled twin run here in MWSS is an 800cc bike,
   

Are you saying you want to run your 1000cc twin in middleweight??

Your bike is not excluded because it's a twin, it's excluded because it's 1000cc.

I wish they would let me run my gsx-r1000 in lightweight ss too, but I'm not gonna say its unfair that they don't.

I don't see what's so hard to understand. Supertwins is twin-exclusive. It excludes I4 bikes.

Score your points in the other 6 classes you can race in.

[251am]

Are you saying you want to run your 1000cc twin in middleweight??

Your bike is not excluded because it's a twin, it's excluded because it's 1000cc.

I wish they would let me run my gsx-r1000 in lightweight ss too, but I'm not gonna say its unfair that they don't.

I don't see what's so hard to understand. Supertwins is twin-exclusive. It excludes I4 bikes.

Score your points in the other 6 classes you can race in.

  Where did I say I wanted to run my bike in MW or UL? I'm saying points earned in a race should simply be earned! WsTF problem with understanding English!!

  You can run your GSXR 1000 in LW SS, pay the race fee, you won't get any points! Just like those of us racing SuperTwins.

  This term "exclusive" is an oxymoron in the terms of this debate. When you look at racing a certain machine, you have to read the Road Race Rules and Regs. Which classes does your machine qualify to race in according to the rules? In those classes you cannot run your machine in, you're machine is  excluded.  

  The Suzuki Cup is exclusive to 750 GSXRs. THAT'S exclusive.

  The points structure has changed. One person can hardly cherry pick/buy an OA championship anymore. Why not adjust the other parts of the points system to be more inclusive. The points system, as it is, is what's exclusive here and not the obscure classes.

[Ridgeway]

You can run your GSXR 1000 in LW SS, pay the race fee, you won't get any points! Just like those of us racing SuperTwins.

Not the same at all.  The big bike would be flat-out disqualified in LW.  Legitimate SuperTwins finishers still score class points.

As a result of the type of bike/rider allowed by the rules in the "sportsman" classes, they tend to have smaller grids.  Would it be fair to take your RC51 and rack up overall points in SuperTwins and F40, in grids of say, 20 bikes againts people competing in MWSS/SB/GP in grids of 40 who are not eligible to run any sportsman classes?  (keeping in mind that you can still run all the HW and UL races to earn more overall points)

The new math for determining regional points would help level the field I guess.

Run the numbers after the season is over with the new system and see how much difference it would make.

Bottom line is, if you want the best shot in the overall championship, you need to run a bike that's competetive in the most "standard" classes.  That bike is an I4 600.

[251am]

grids of say, 20 bikes againts people competing in MWSS/SB/GP in grids of 40 who are not eligible to run any sportsman classes?  (keeping in mind that you can still run all the HW and UL races to earn more overall points)

The new math for determining regional points would help level the field I guess.

Run the numbers after the season is over with the new system and see how much difference it would make.

Bottom line is, if you want the best shot in the overall championship, you need to run a bike that's competetive in the most "standard" classes.  That bike is an I4 600.

  10-4 on that Ridge, I've been brewin' on a 600 for a while now anyway. What you mention per HW and UL classes is the only option, really, for points that matter. Then, take a look @ those grids; Full of 600s!!? I'm just crazy, I know. ;D

[Ridgeway]

Do you think you'd have a shot at the #1 plate if you switched bikes?  (I have no idea what you're race record is...)

If not, stick with what you like to ride and to hell with the overall.

I know I probably won't ever be one of the uber-fast guys, so I hadn't really even considered what points count toward the overall when decided what I wanted to run.