What good is a SportRider Day before a CCS weekend

[bweber]

 ???I would like to know CCS's reasoning for scheduling a Sport-Rider day in the middle of the week and pushing Dave's Vision-Sports school off the schedule.
As a former student of Dave's Vision-Sports school, I can say that I benefited from Dave's Thursday school, then a Friday practice before a Blackhawk event last May.  After 5 years of racing at Blackhawk, my best times were high 1:16's and I was consistently running 1:17's and had reached a plateau.  I was not getting any faster, no matter what I tried.
Kevin Hanson and Bill Hitchcock convinced me to give Dave's school a shot.  I signed up and tried to soak up as much of Super-Dave's knowledge as possible on Thursday.  He helped me better dial in my suspension for the current track conditions and answered all my questions.  I got lots of track time and lots of face time with Dave.  Then Friday morning I was out on the track again simply practicing what Super-Dave had suggested and before lunch break, I had turned a number of low 1:15.2's and was on my way to a high 1:14's before I had a bike problem.
My point is that without the ability to learn, and then practice those skills before an event weekend, I could never have retained everything that Super-Dave's riding school taught me.  
Why would a Sport-Rider day be necessary on a Thursday?  Those people who sign up for Sport-Rider days are generally not practicing for a race weekend.  They typically are not racers so to attend, those riders would need to take time off work in the middle of a week.  Last year's schedule seemed to make much more sense, that is to hold the Sport-Rider days on a Monday after an event.
I'll tell you what will happen if CCS does hold Sport-Rider days on Thursday.  There will be a handful of racers who signup for that extra bit of track time.  Those racers will go out an ride like a typical practice session.  They will go as fast as possible and pass at will.  This will scare off most riders who just came out to take their streetbike on the racetrack.  Those two groups of people don't mix!  Thursday Sport-Rider days will be a bust, and everyone will lose. Racers, Sport-Riders and Dave's students.  
CCS should pull their head out and start thinking about what is best for the sport, their customers and the fans.  That type of forward thinking is what makes a company successful.

[sportbikepete]

Not sure if it run the same in the midwest but I did one at Summit and the day was broken into groups, one of the groups being racer only where you needed to show you license. No opinion here to info.  ;D

[RI-231]

I agree with Brian, I have been putting around Blackhawk for a few years now.  I couldn't get time off or the money to attend one of Dave's schools.  Now I am done with college and actually have vacation time.  Next year I will be an expert.  I was planning on attending at least one or two of Dave's schools.  As a matter of fact I had already registered for one.

[tcchin]

I believe the purpose of the Sport Rider days is twofold: To promote the sport amongst non-racers by making track time more accessible and to encourage street riders to work out their speed issues in the relative safety of a racetrack environment. Yeah, it may interfere with some people's rigorous training schedule, but it's intended to broaden the focus of the sport so that it will appeal to a larger group. Isn't this also good business sense?

See http://www.ccsracing.com/sport%20rider%20days/2002%20LP%20USA%20SRD%20info.PDF for more details.

[KBOlsen]

(going out on a little limb here)

In reality, the objectives of both Dave's school and the Sport Rider Days ARE THE SAME.  

What we all are taking umbrage to is the fact that it appears the BFR schedule is being unfairly "massaged" to benefit CCS' group at Rosno's expense.

[Dawn]

Tim:

Many people on this BBS are aware of what Sport Rider days are and the purpose they serve.  However what many of us in the Midwest are having an issue with is what CCS has done in regards to the schedule.

Last year they held the Sport Rider day the Monday following a CCS event.  Seeing that they did not have the participation they expected, they moved that day to Thursday.  I believe that this was done based on the success that Vision Sports Riding School has had on that date.

I truely believe that this change in date will not provide the increase of numbers that CCS is looking for.  The reason why I feel this way is three fold:  1.  BHF raceway has practice every Friday prior to a CCS event.  If a licensed racer needs practice time, they will pay for that day and probably not show up for two day's of practice in a row and double their fees.  2.  If Vision Sports is an option, they will pay the extra expense to attend Dave's school.  Dave and his teachers will spend the time one on one with the student and help him with his bike, set up, and lines.  This is racer to racer help.  3.  The sport rider days are not well promoted in this area.  If it wasn't for the blurb at the bottom of the schedule I wouldn't even have known it existed.  To attract the riders they are looking for, they need to get this information out to the local shops in the area.

My $.02

Dawn   :)

[SliderPhoto]

I believe the purpose of the Sport Rider days is twofold: To promote the sport amongst non-racers by making track time more accessible and to encourage street riders to work out their speed issues in the relative safety of a racetrack environment.

If those are the real goals, Thursday makes no sense.

You get more advertising at an event that there is a track day on the following Monday than you will that there WAS a track day a few days ago and there will be one next month.

More people will travel to a track on a weekend for a track day on Monday than they will in the middle of the week, and people might even show up for the races and pay gate fees if they're going to ride Monday.

I think Dawn hit it on the head....

[bweber]

My point was missed entirely.  SportRider trackdays are probably going to be more beneficial if scheduled on a Monday rather than a Thursday since the riders (mostly non-racers) would not have to make the trip mid-week.  Rosno's school is better suited to be held immediately before a Friday practice or race weekend.  In my opinion, Thursday Sport-Rider days will have less participants because of the schedule change to Thursday from Friday.  We all know how it will affect Vision-Sports Riding School.

[khanson]

It's unfortunate that CCS has taken this stance and opted to go after the Thursdays.

Since I started roadracing  1 1/2 years ago, I can honestly say that Dave Rosno has been an integral part of my sucess.  I firmly believe that you get more out of going to one school than putting a pipe on your bike or buying some other high zoot piece of equipment.  I have attended several different schools and all of Visionsports last year.  Dave's guidance has been the key factor in me outracing many other racers who have years of racing experience.

Take our jobs for example.  

How well do think you would be at your current job if someone didn't coach and teach you the ropes.  It's the same with racing, if you want to shorten the learning curve and learn how to do it right in the first place, attend a riding school.  A sportrider day won't achieve that.  You will simply be circulating the track perfecting the bad skills that you already came with.

Visionsports has a good following because people pay money to be instructed by Dave and he has built the program up over the years through hardwork.  There won't be anymore attendance on a Thursday sportrider day than a monday slot.

CCS......C'mon don't take the Thursday slot from somebody who has worked very hard over the years trying to promote the sport and bring more riders in.

My $.02  >:(

[tcchin]

I guess I spoke out of turn w.r.t. the Midwest region. However, in the Southwest and Pacific regions, the Sport Rider days are a chance to secure pre-race track time at very economical rates. This is essential at tracks on which one has never turned a wheel. Having practice on Mondays would do no good whatsoever for the racer looking to learn a new track, or looking to work on chassis, suspension and jetting setups in preparation for the weekend. Also, having the Sport Rider day on the Monday after the races would do little to encourage non-racers to become more involved with racing (i.e., attending the track day, enrolling in new racer orientation schools, getting licensed and racing all in one weekend).

Maybe Lockhart-Phillips, being a California-based company, is more familiar with the needs of California's racers and not those of the Midwest region. As it is now, Sport Rider days out here on the west coast are the equivalent of Fastrack Riders days at WSIR, only cheaper, better and held at various tracks. Fastrack Riders days, which are essentially test-and-tune days, are the standard to which we have become accustomed. Buttonwillow hosts its own version of test-and-tune before race days, too.

[RI-231]

Blackhawk almost always has a day of open practice on Fridays (reasonably priced).  Friday is a good day for setting up suspension and other stuff, on your own.  If you want quality advice and help on riding styles, set-up ect, Vision Sports is the way to go.  Have the Sport Rider days on Thursdays at other tracks but not at BH.  What would 4 days kill CCS?  Plus you can count on cold a%& weather in April.

[Thingy]

We have our own 'test and tune' days on Friday.  Blackhawk Farms Raceway has a track day on the Friday before each race weekend.

It makes sense for BHF to hold this track day because all of the racers show up or it.  Thus, it makes money.  In an effort to make money for themselves, CCS would like to have their track day before the races, instead of Monday.

The problem is that we use Dave's school to learn and achieve things that the CCS trackday wil not provide.  We then use Friday to perfect the skills that we have learned, or 'learn the track' if we are newbies.

I don't mind the CCS attempt to make money.  The problem is that they are eliminating a school that we view as valuable.  (I have taken the school as well and  it was a very valuable experience)  Addtitionally, the method used to gain the Thursday dates does not appear to be very ethical, at least from what I have heard so far.

Proposal:  Let Dave and VRS keep their 4 Thursday dates.  CCS can have the 2 other Thursday BHF dates and the 6-8 dates at the other tracks.

One final question:  By moving the Track Day from Monday to Thursday, do you think that CCS will gain increased attendance from the new riders that they are trying to attract?  Or, will the attendance just increase from the regular racers?