Hello Guest

Amatuer vs. Expert

  • 34 Replies
  • 3351 Views

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

*

speedster_1

Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #12 on: November 19, 2004, 09:34:15 am »
Quote


Well, I'll make a statement, then ask a question.

Certainly, everyone would love to win a championship.  Some are easier than others.  But, regardless, championships are about working through issues, spending money, and hopefully having championship winning performances.[/i]

However, how often did you see any company advertise an amateur championship?  Ok, LP does it, but that's their gig...along with sometimes spotty stocking of items that one needs to race...

So, although, yeah, maybe getting bumped would keep a rider from winning an amateur championship...wouldn't it be better to advertise that a rider was bumped mid year because of their performance on a sponsors product?

I think so.



My sponsors don't advertise my wins/champs but would rather see me on the podium as a Am and winning Championships than a 10th or back as a new expert.  Ohwell....I look forward to running with the whities next season but it will take some time to get back on top of the poduim as an Ex.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

Super Dave

  • I hate salad...
  • ******
  • 11415
    +1261/-454
  • I'm the ghost with the most...
Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #13 on: November 19, 2004, 10:42:22 am »
Quote
Sorry Dave....
I couldn't get that thought out of my head.

Dawn


Well, at least I get inside some heads...LOL!

I'm still sold on the idea of three tiers of riders.  Then, I can see where things make sense.  I've kind of had way too much on my plate trying to get work, stay on top of bills, etc. to really attempt to make it better for everyone else.  
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Super Dave

*

Jeff

  • *
  • 5405
    +301/-278
  • It's only gross to you.
    • cbr600rr.com
Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2004, 10:48:04 am »
My sponsors could care less where I finish, so long as people keep coming through the door buying things I recommend...

At the club level (am or ex), championships are good for bragging rights and not much else.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Bucket List:
[X] Get banned from Wera forum
[  ] Walk the Great Wall of China
[X] Visit Mt. Everest

*

Ryan125

Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #15 on: November 19, 2004, 12:06:59 pm »
I only got half a season as a amatuer and I requested to stay back and they wouldnt let me. there were people who were faster than me that got two Am season's. But because someone complained I got bumped up. I think Amatuer ranks is a place to gain experince. just cause some one is fast that doesnt mean that they have the experince needed to become an expert. If some one win's half of there races and crashes the other half, I see some one who needs more experince. And some people want racers moved up cause they dont want the competition. If some one wants to stay back let them. Its their choice!!!! If you want to call them a sandbagger, all that means is that your saying that they are faster than you.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

rotoboge

Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #16 on: November 19, 2004, 01:22:38 pm »
Quote
I only got half a season as a amatuer and I requested to stay back and they wouldnt let me. there were people who were faster than me that got two Am season's. But because someone complained I got bumped up.



Let's not take this so personal... :D
« Last Edit: November 19, 2004, 01:24:41 pm by rotoboge »
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

Johnny B

  • ***
  • 230
    +42/-14
  • Tree Fiddy
    • The Official Butler's Rest Home Website
Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #17 on: November 19, 2004, 06:02:38 pm »
Quote


However, how often did you see any company advertise an amateur championship?

Ding, ding ding! We have a winner! Super Dave spelled "Amateur" correctly!
This issue will never be resolved to all partys' satisfaction. LRRS keeps track of advancement points, but also calculates a "Rider's Index" in order to keep track of a rider's performance in comparison to his immediate peers. Doing a 1:17 at Loudon might not be a big deal on a GSX-R750, but doing the same time on an EX500 is another story. So straight lap times don't tell the whole story. (How 'bout Jeff Wood into the 1:16 range on a 450CC DIRT BIKE?)
More and more people seem to be doing track days before they start racing. Perhaps the straight lap times are fast, but shouldn't they get a chance to work on their racecraft?
We can't always force people up mid-season, but we have incentives in place. In order to be eligible the Vanson "Rookie Of The Year" Award, a rider has to advance as soon as they have the points and races to do so.
I am aware that there are people who think that by getting other riders to advance, they better the odds that they might place higher in their races. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! They'll be replced by new fast riders. Best fix: Get yourself faster!  ;D
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Johnny B. (the other one) ®
Butler's Rest Home - "No Vacancy"
http://resthome.50megs.com


*

GSXR RACER MIKE

  • *
  • 1847
    +135/-134
  • Slow guy!
Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #18 on: November 19, 2004, 06:54:35 pm »
Quote
I think Amatuer ranks is a place to gain experince. just cause some one is fast that doesnt mean that they have the experince needed to become an expert. If some one win's half of there races and crashes the other half, I see some one who needs more experince.


    I believe this is a great example of what the Amateur class is intended for: learning, experience, and improvement.

Quote
just cause some one is fast that doesnt mean that they have the experince needed to become an expert. If some one win's half of there races and crashes the other half, I see some one who needs more experince.


    I have seen way too many racers who were fast right out of the box as an Amateur, but never really learned the basics. Too often they win races by just being guttsier than the other Amateurs, but often times 1/2 or 3/4 of the way thru the season their domination seems to fade when other Amateurs start getting faster after having learned the basics. The guttsy racer will often times start crashing as the season goes on, sometimes quite often, but will still usually be up at the front. These racers often times will go Expert and be fast at the start of the season, but will soon find that alot of the Experts are fast, and they start crashing again trying to keep up. I truly feel that if they stayed Amateur for another season, without seeking instruction, they really wouldn't improve much at all.

Quote
And some people want racers moved up cause they dont want the competition.


    If someone wants another Amateur racer bumped to Expert status strickly because they are faster than them, then that's not correct, but I don't believe that is the case in the majority of cases where someone is bumped.

Quote
If some one wants to stay back let them. Its their choice!!!! If you want to call them a sandbagger, all that means is that your saying that they are faster than you.


    This doesn't really make sense since often times it's the Experts who are saying that someone is sandbagging by staying Amateur. Actually it would seem more like the sandbagger is looking to take advantage of the system for their own personal benefit and not use the Amateur class as a stepping stone as it's intended.

    I believe that having a championship available to Amateurs isn't all bad, but I am strongly against the over abundance of contingency available at the Amateur level. This is a major reason why people are against the sandbagging, because of the reaping of a large portion of the payouts in Amateur by a select few. If the payouts were either greatly reduced in Amatuer or paid further down the results to reduce the payouts to the leaders then I wouldn't have so much of a problem with intentional sandbagging. But the sad situation of having an overkill contingency program in Amateur has led to continued abuse of the program.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Smites are a cowards way of feeling brave!   :jerkoff:
Mike Williams - 2 GSXR 750's
Former MW Region Expert #58
Racing exclusively with CCS since '96
MODERATOR

*

Bernie

Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2004, 07:16:32 pm »
Quote
My sponsors could care less where I finish, so long as people keep coming through the door buying things I recommend...



Badda Bing!  
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

Super Dave

  • I hate salad...
  • ******
  • 11415
    +1261/-454
  • I'm the ghost with the most...
Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #20 on: November 21, 2004, 12:55:45 am »
Quote

I am aware that there are people who think that by getting other riders to advance, they better the odds that they might place higher in their races. NOT GONNA HAPPEN! They'll be replced by new fast riders. Best fix: Get yourself faster!  ;D


Johnny, now there's a true statement.

I'm always amused by the guys that make their next season championship statements based on so-and-so moving up next season, so I have a good chance...then I burst their bubble and go and send someone else to go get that championship.  Not sure why people focus on other people when riding in their championships when the only thing they can do is focus on their program.

Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
Super Dave

*

smoke

  • *
  • 743
    +2/-0
Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #21 on: November 21, 2004, 04:28:12 pm »
I have been an AM for the last two seasons 03 & 04 WHY:
1. I have raced 3 to 4 races per year and did not have the points to be and ex.

2. I travel for work way to much to run a full season.

3. I still have way to much to learn.

The point is the Am is for learning and thats what I'm doing at my pace. I could care less who is faster than me or lower than me.  I run for the true fun and learning aspect.  I did not  win any wood and if I don't ever I will have learned alot about myself and people in general.

Yes one day I would like to win but if I don't oh well.

Am I a fast Am? No  Was I faster in 04 than in 03?  Oh hell yeah. Will I be faster in 05 ? You bet your A@@@. But will I be the fastest AM?  NO!!!!!!

Stop crying about what someone else is doing and run your own race program.
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

rotoboge

Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #22 on: November 21, 2004, 06:15:23 pm »
Quote


Stop crying about what someone else is doing and run your own race program.


Sounds like you are the only one crying...
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions

*

Baltobuell

Re: Amatuer vs. Expert
« Reply #23 on: November 21, 2004, 07:19:21 pm »
Smoke, you're OK in my book. I'm the eternal amature. I have no dreams of glory and use this for fun. My trouble is I go slower each year. When I'm good and ready I'll quit... or hit lotto and go every weekend and become expert. ;D
Like
0
Dislike
0
Agree
0
Disagree
0
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions
No reactions