Computer Help Needed

[cornercamping]

I need to build my own workstation to run some pretty wicked engineering software.  Unfortunately, I"m stuck having to use Windows  >:(  I'm an Apple fan, so I"m thinking 64 bit because I use a G5 now.  Anyone have experiance with the AMD 64 series?  Someone mentioned it before, but I forgot who.  I was going to just buy a machine, but after they load in all the crap at the factory such as AOL, I don't want to spend 6 months removing it.  This is what I'm thinking:

AMD 64 FX55 Platinum Processor
MSI Neo Platinum Motherboard
4 GB RAM
(1) 36.5 GB 10k RPM Boot Drive
(1) 400 GB 7200 RPM Data Drive
ATI X800 XT Platinum 256 MB Video Card
700 Watt Power Supply

I pretty much have to build it myself because nobody makes something like this as an off the shelf item.   This computer will be used stricktly as a standalone workstation, and won't even connect to the internet.   Whatcha' guys think?

Incase your wondering, the software I'm running is PCAD, ORCAD, MENTOR, and AutoCAD.   Most will be running at the same time, so awesome multitasking capabilites is an absolute must when it comes to the processor.  

Also, Microcrap has a BETA version of Windows 64 Bit.  Anyone try it yet?  Worth anything?  I'd like to give it a try but if it's worthless, I'll run a standard version of WinXP Pro.

Any suggestions are welcome.  The computers only function is PCB design, real time graphics rendering, and "live" in-circuit emulation which really puts the processor thru it's paces.  If multiple FX55 processors are recommended, I was thinking 2 of the same on a Tyan server board.

[Lowe119]

Um - what are you doing with this - redesigning the space shuttle?  :o

I have a PII 450 with 32MB of RAM and a 1GB harddrive for a lot cheaper  ;D

[cornercamping]

Um - what are you doing with this - redesigning the space shuttle?  :o

I have a PII 450 with 32MB of RAM and a 1GB harddrive for a lot cheaper  ;D

lol... nah, designing circuit boards.  My old workstation just isn't doing it any more, and that's a Xenon 2.8GHz model with 2 GB of RAM.   Time to upgrade.   The software I'm using kinda puts a beating to the systems.  

[Protein Filled]

I believe Microsoft's 64 bit OS is for servers only. Not a workstation kind of product at this time.

I don't think a 64 bit processor will do you much good if the program is not designed to take advantage of it.

If the stuff you are doing is going to use the hard drive a lot, get 2 10K drives. Much faster seek time. Use a raid 1+0 config to mirror them.

Not sure you would really need a 700 watt power supply, but it seems like you like to spend money on unnecessary stuff, so go ahead. The reality of this latest processor is that you will pay a lot more money for only 200 extra MHZ and you will not see a bump in core speed compared to a 3800 or so, but you will see a big difference in price just to have the latest stuff.

[Lowe119]

Is RAID 1+0 faster that RAID 1? RAID 1 has a slower I/O speed, because it has to write to both disks, right? Does the "+0" do something about that?

[cornercamping]

Hmm... I was told that a 700 watt powersupply and a lot of fans are going to be required in this type of system.  Who knows  ???   I'm more or less concerned with expandability.  I'd like to get a motherboard that will hold 8-12 GB of RAM so later on as I need it I can buy 1 GB sticks when I need them, but without spending tons of money on cases and such I can't find a good motherboard.  Most ATX type boards only hold 4 GB that I've found.   RAM is the biggest issue.   The piece of crap I have now is a pig, and I can't upgrade it anymore.  2GB is all the motheboard can take, and that's not enough.  I don't even power down the machine anymore because it's annoying waiting for the thing to boot up and having to relaunch all the software.   It takes forever.   More or less, this machine is going to make money, so spending a little extra for having great expandability and speed aren't a concern.  Plus, I'm not paying for it. Work is so I don't care.  As far as 64 bit goes, your right the software isn't there yet, but it will be so that's why I'd like to do a 64 bit system.  I hate Intel, but the only processor I found from them that I actually like is the Extreme Edition P4 for 2MB cache.  But, those have overheating issues from what I understand, and everyone that I talk to says go with the FX55 over the P4 Extreme.  The cost is the same.   As far as graphics are concerned, awesome graphics are an absolute must.   I understand the ATI board I"m talking about is a "gaming" graphics card, but I need the 3D along with DVI outputs, and Nvidia quit making the 6800 and I can't find it anywhere without paying a premium.  I can get the ATI cheaper, and it's supposed to be a bad ass card.  

And someone else suggested the same thing on the hard drives, but I also have a tape drive with auto back up, so I don't know what to do.  I'm going to pull the tape drive out of the current system and add it.  

[Protein Filled]

Is RAID 1+0 faster that RAID 1? RAID 1 has a slower I/O speed, because it has to write to both disks, right? Does the "+0" do something about that?

Yes, the +0 is called "striping" which increases seek speed. RAID 1 is slower for writing to the disk since it has to write to both disks at once, but it's faster for reading since it can also read from both disks at once.

[cornercamping]

And what's with the 15k RPM Hard Drives.  Is that just burst speed?

I wanna load the OS on a 10K 36.5 GB and then store files on a 400GB.   I could do 2 10K drives, but I also need alot of room for storage.   I could always do an external 1394 200 GB or something too  :-/  Who knows.  Too many options...

[cornercamping]

Yes, the +0 is called "striping" which increases seek speed. RAID 1 is slower for wiring to the disk since it has to write to both disks at once, but it's faster for reading since it can also read from both disks at once.

Why are some of those drives $200 and then some $600 ?  They all look the same.   Seagate has two with similar specs, yet one is $400 more  ???  This crrap is too damn confusing.  Glad I work on embedded stuff  8)

[Protein Filled]

I am not saying you need to go with the P4 chip, all I am saying is that a 3800 is supposed to be just as fast as the FX55 for a lower cost. I guess if work is paying for it who cares though. One note, overheating on a computer is kind of the same as overheating on a bike. You just need to get a better radiator.  ;)

For a CAD program or things of that nature, RAM is king, but it also depends on how much RAM can the program use wisely.

A tape drive has nothing to do with hard drive seek speed. It's just to backup data.

[cornercamping]

Alrighty, so...

Since RAM is the biggest issue, who makes a motherboard that will hold massive RAM (8,12,14,15 GB) that will fit in a standard ATX case and that will hold a 3800 or FX55 processor or maybe two to four for later expandibility?  I don't care about audio.  All I need is USB 2.0 (4) and a couple 1394.  

As far as the software is concerned, all of them are power pigs, especially PCAD. What they recommend as minimum requirements is a joke.  They call for a P3 with minimum 256 RAM.  I don't think that software could even be launched with that.   Running PCAD and the full version of AutoCAD at the same time pretty much makes my current machine unusable for any other programs.  It'll take a simple program like MS Word about a full minute to launch with those two running at the same time.  I have to multitask the programs most of the time.  

[cornercamping]

I found a Tyan board that will fit 1-4 processors and up to 16 GB or RAM, but the case is "special" and comes with a 900 watt power supply.  They said case and power supply is about $900 alone for that motherboard..

I'm dealing with a "high end" computer parts store that stocks server boards, ect.