Autobahn Country Club in Joliet

[Old808]

Very cool.  And don't worry, I don't work for any of the parties involved.  So I have no guarantees either.

[Super Dave]

As far as zoning restrictions not being very racing friendly....  Better take a look at the area surrounding the track.  Within just a few miles you have an oval track that hosts NASCAR events and a drag strip that hosts NHRA national series events.  Read the news releases on the Autobahn site about City of Joliet officials patting themselves on the back at the vision of being identified as a racing hotbed with national caliber oval, drag and road courses.
While it's possible(probable?) that on-site camping won't be permitted, I don't see that as being a make or break situation for the track.

Ok, I read your statement.

Here's my read on it.

The locals allow this all to happen to make big money.

So, one, there will be no camping, two, hotels will be pricey.  That's how it works.  You don't build a place for NASCAR or NHRA events to be racer friendly to be "racer friendly"...you build them to make money.  You think the people that go and see these events are "racers"?

I expect rentals of that track to be pretty off base compared to BFR, a track that has dedicated itself to being an anchor to the road racing community of motorcyclists.  

People don't make all the events in a region in a year as it is.  Add ACC to a schedule...well, you've got to make choices.

I don't see it as an overall plan for CCS this year.

Will WERA make it work?  Didn't get Grattan to work, again,  They dropped BFR years ago.  Putnam is over.  Seems like they are over extended in California.  They will probably do it though.  

[Mongo]

Damn Dave, you always jump to conclusions without facts?

First with regard to Autobahn Country Club - the no camping is not an absolute.  Second, hotels are plentiful and not any more expensive than any other place.  I'm sure it'll be more for weekends but even Harrahs was only $60/night for a great room.

Now onto your other misrepresentations. The entire WERA West program is going exactly as we expected, the schedule is even done for 2005.  Grattan worked fine as well, maybe you should come out next year and actually see for yourself.  Putnam was profitable and we walked for mutlitple other reasons, namely we won't do business with people like the Diasios not all of which was discussed on our BBS nor will it be.  BHF - they kept pricing us out of the market, taking a portion of the gate then adding a $5 per bike that took to the track charge above and beyond the retal and us having to pay the concession stand to open made it impossible to race there, something I believe at the time might have been on purpose because of other alliances but maybe not, I don't have the facts so I cannot make a judgement on the reasoning.  I do know that Evelyne turned down the deal they wound up giving to Roger because it didn't make sense.  But I keep forgetting - you were privy to all that weren't you?  No?  Hmmmmm, maybe you might want to try thinking before you make assumptions again....

Back to the subject at hand, ACC is a great safe track and we're going to run 2 dates there, one regional only, one combined regional/national because the regional racers should be afforded 2 shots at getting on the track.  

[OmniGLH]

That stinks about BHF, Sean.

If WERA would pick up BHF, I know of several folks (myself included if I wasn't going back to school next year) who would defect in a heartbeat.  Not counting Joliet... Grattan is the closest track to Chicago - and that's a good 5 hour drive.  Too far to sleep at home at night  :(

[Eric Kelcher]

Damn Dave, you always jump to conclusions without facts?

First with regard to Autobahn Country Club - the no camping is not an absolute.  Second, hotels are plentiful and not any more expensive than any other place.  I'm sure it'll be more for weekends but even Harrahs was only $60/night for a great room.

Now onto your other misrepresentations. The entire WERA West program is going exactly as we expected, the schedule is even done for 2005.  Grattan worked fine as well, maybe you should come out next year and actually see for yourself.  Putnam was profitable and we walked for mutlitple other reasons, namely we won't do business with people like the Diasios not all of which was discussed on our BBS nor will it be.  BHF - they kept pricing us out of the market, taking a portion of the gate then adding a $5 per bike that took to the track charge above and beyond the retal and us having to pay the concession stand to open made it impossible to race there, something I believe at the time might have been on purpose because of other alliances but maybe not, I don't have the facts so I cannot make a judgement on the reasoning.  I do know that Evelyne turned down the deal they wound up giving to Roger because it didn't make sense.  But I keep forgetting - you were privy to all that weren't you?  No?  Hmmmmm, maybe you might want to try thinking before you make assumptions again....

Back to the subject at hand, ACC is a great safe track and we're going to run 2 dates there, one regional only, one combined regional/national because the regional racers should be afforded 2 shots at getting on the track.  

Mongo
Administrator

Registered: May 2000
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Posts: 19056
 FWIW - ***** got banned for a two part reason - 1st part irrevelant Mostly thought it was the promotion of our competitors race. And that thread was deleted.


__________________
Sean P. Clarke
WERA Motorcycle Roadracing

Do you think maybe the same enforcement is needed here as well?
 

[251am]

  Hmm, WERA has 2 weekends already scheduled for ACC and the WERA '05 schedule is already out? It's too close to not go check out, at the least.

  Is WERA run by Clear Channel Entertainment as well? Is CCS still run by Clear Channel Entertainment?    

[Super Dave]

Damn Dave, you always jump to conclusions without facts?

First with regard to Autobahn Country Club - the no camping is not an absolute.

Now onto your other misrepresentations.

BHF - they kept...

I guess as a racer that was never from the East coast, and I still don't live on the West coast, WERA hasn't really had much for us in the real middle of the country in years.  I think you stopped coming to BFR after 1987.  Original Gateway...well, MCRA really kept that going.  Maybe a couple of Halletts in 1989 through affiliates.  FUSA at Topeka in 1990.

Misrepresenting things really are hard to do when WERA just hasn't been able to offer very much to those a bit further out.  

One can log complaints about BFR all one wants, but if someone else can have large grids all the time that makes the place able to host five to six events...well, higher fees are in order, and logical.  CCS still runs at Road America and Daytona, and those, you recognize, have very high fees across the board.

Grattan?  Well, that's fine.  I used to go there for races with WERA, CCS, AHRMA.  Still, to go for one event...  Makes more sense to me to stick with a region that I know will probably be there...MAM, RA, HPT, Gateway, etc.

I can't misrepresent what my general experiences are.  And you can't say that you'll necessarily be back to ACC in 2006 until you're done with 2005.  I wish you luck.  Maybe they will raise the fees on you for the next year.  Don't misrepresent what's happened before even in your own experiences.

[Mongo]

Interesting reply that honestly I can't make head nor tails of but oh well.

Erid - if someone posts incorrect statements about CCS on my site I correct them.  If I don't do so in a way Kevin feels is correct then he is more than welcome to do so.  Lies that get spread about either of us do nothing for the sport. I do apologize if any of this is taken as a promotion of WERA (even if this isn't CCS's site exactly it's still not good form).

All - I want to reiterate that what I said about BHF and the reasons is purely supposition and did not need to be put in my above post, I was just kind of going stream of consciousness, now that it's out I won't delete it but that is purely a personal supposition at the time  when I was not working for WERA full time and either way has nothing to do with now.  Actually that is the kind of BS that isn't good for the sport that I am tlaking about and again - I apologize for it.

[Super Dave]

 Hmm, WERA has 2 weekends already scheduled for ACC and the WERA '05 schedule is already out? It's too close to not go check out, at the least.

  Is WERA run by Clear Channel Entertainment as well? Is CCS still run by Clear Channel Entertainment?    

Ok, first, I'm just Dave.  

I could care less who I race for and with.  

But, were it not for CCS, I wouldn't have been able to race at anyplace close to my original home, Omaha, Nebraska.  

Does it matter to anyone?  Well, I was responsible for a few racers over several years, and even today.

If it weren't for CCS, I don't know if there would have been road races at Blackhawk.  Certainly not any at Heartland Park Topeka in 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999...

Price go up for everyone.  Making an investment in riders in different places can be priceless.

Now back to CCE...

Who cares who owns CCS!  Bill Gates can own CCS as far as I'm concerned.  I don't know anyone that has put together any programs really to benefit me in the area that I lived in or live in.  

Endurance racing doesn't do much for me.  Did that with WERA in 1987 quite a bit and in 1991.  Yeah, it's fun.

But it was CCS's Roger Edmonson that really put the AMA Pro program that exists today on the path that it is now.  Certainly wasn't what it was before Roger.  

I'm sure that CCE would sell CCS to WERA, AMA, AFM, CRMA, CRA, or any other person out there that felt they could do better and had the cash.  Talk is cheap.  Roger's daughter sold it off in 1999...where was everyone there?  

Squeeky wheels get the grease.  However, if you're a bit better than a squeeky wheel, you work with what you got and give suggestions.

Personally, I didn't ride at ACC.  I do have feelings about Alan Wilson tracks.  Seem scary to me at times.  Someone go to MAM and tell me why the pit road is where it is and why it couldn't have been moved someplace where it didn't need to have steel barriers there.  Putnam?  Gingerman?  I though we were supposed to be smarter than all the older track designs.  Yet, with a track that was built when I was born in 1967, I can highside out of turn two at Blackhawk just past the apex and not hit a steel barrier.  

Anyway, for me, I can understand if CCS is not wanting to necessarily jump into ACC.  Maybe there will be a date there.  I don't know.  

I don't think the place is going to be cheap, by any means.  So, Sean, if it's plainly a fact of cash, I'm way sure that Blackhawk is way cheaper than ACC.  

[Mongo]

Interesting theories - I disagree with you about AMA Pro and Roger, same for races at Blackhawk and Heartland Park - if no one else was doing it we would have at least tried and as long as we can pay the bills we run races.  Hell, we even run them at a loss for a while to build regions but there is a line to be drawn everywhere, we're a business and we don't have unlimited resources.  We also don't have the option of losing money overall ever.

Either way I said cost WAS the issue at Blackhawk, I have no idea what it costs now as they won't return phone calls when I leave messages asking for dates.  And once I did reach someone last year they had no dates available, I'm assuming that's why no response now, fine by me.  I'll schedule dates where/when I can.  If a track doesn't want out business that's their call.

[ekraft84]

Did Gingerman call you back Sean?  There's a good 10 of us here in MI that sure hope so.

[Burt Munro]

Maybe I just don't get it ........

Why is it that the administrator of the WERA board should answer questions from a WERA board member on the CCS board as to whether or not WERA has had any luck booking race dates at Gingerman? ???  

Not trying to be a jerk - just curious what kind of response would result if the tables were reversed and the question was posed about CCS race dates on the WERA board ???

Sorry this thread has disintegrated to this level.  My only reason for starting it was to point out to anyone reading that there may be hope for CCS to book dates at Autobahn in view of them accepting dates from WERA.

Super Dave....  I guess I should assume from your comments that you're not optimistic about dates being scheduled at Autobahn.   You also mention that you're not a fan of Wilson tracks which some will agree with you on.  They do tend to have certain design traits. http://www.wilsonmotorsport.com/public_html/code/maps.htm  

As far as other aspects of the track I agree with you on some points....  yes, it would suck if they don't allow on-site camping.  Yes, it will probably not be as user friendly as Blackhawk because of the 'Country Club' orientation.  But I disagree with you on how expensive hotels will be.  If a race date happened to fall on the same dates as a major event at Chicagoland Speedway or the Route 66 dragstrip, you may be right. Since those facilities only attract a total of 3 or 4 major events per year between them, it's not likely that a conflict would result.  In searching for camping info on the area, the only campgrounds in the immediate area seem to be geared toward serving the National events at the oval track and the dragstrip.  We may have to do a little research to find all the options out there.  

The availability of hotel rooms in the Joliet area should be relatively good considering it's proximity to a large metro area and I-80 and I-55.  Personally, I have run into what I would call 'exorbitant' hotel rates at Road America and Gingerman.  And I'm not talking about the AMA race weekend at Road America either.  

Personally, I'm happy to see the possibility of another race track coming on-line.  Will it be the prefect venue?  Probably not - especially during the first few years of operation.  Will the location be a winner for the organizations running there (considering the demographics)?  I see no reason why it won't!

Rick