Rules Change Proposal

[PJ]

Doh, I hadn't thought of the multi-regional scenario.

But, it's the same issue they have gridding for the ROC, right?

Solution? For multi-regionals, the front row is reserved for the top points leaders (in order of pre-entry). Once the front row is filled, all others grid as normal (pre-entry then post).

[boo181]

sound good to me. as a bi-product of this they would have to stay on top of points, and as i think you would all agree...that would be a good thing.

[Clay]

Sounds like a great deal to me.  HOWEVER, please suggest the first TWO rows.  I think that would make for far better racing.  Sorry, even the fast guys can't always catch up if they're at the back of the grid in a two wave race.  :-/

For the combined regions...like someone said, do it like the ROC.  If the two first place points leaders are in the race, then the one with the most points gets the pole.  

[PJ]

I'm cool with the first two rows (I think Rob940 had the same idea).

I'm going to try to type up in more of a rule book format. Then maybe a bunch of us could email our support of the change and see what happens.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     Paul, another consideration is the fact that at the multi-region events you often times have a rider who holds top ranking in 2 or more of the regions attending. So in this case if it was a triple region event a front runner in the points could be that way in all the regions attending, therefore only consuming 1 position on the grid instead of 3. I have been in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd places in a particular class across 3 different regions in the past. In a case like that take the best standing that applies to that rider (only in the regions listed for that event) and grid them that way.

     I personally wouldn't limit it to a certain # of positions on the grid, but instead to a certain position in the points standing (maybe 3rd or 4th place?). So if it was a 3 region event, and you had no repeat people across all 3 regions and you were going thru 4th place standings, then you would have 12 people eligible for those front positions (which would be the 1st 3 rows - in this 'worst case senerio'). Most likely there would be repeat riders in the standings amongst those regions so it would probably be more than likely to use 2 or 2 1/2 rows. I just was scanning the points pages between GP and MW regions and the several classes I checked had at least 1 repeat rider in the top 4 standings, 1 class had 3 repeat riders in both standings.

     So at a single region event the front row only would be used for the top 4 riders in the standings for that class, 2 region event would be 2 rows max - but most likely a row and a half, and at a rare triple region event 3 rows max - but most likely 2 or 2 1/2 rows. This will reward the front runners in the points evenly and wouldn't be able to be disputed as to how many should be on the grid.

     The only real concern I have is with post vs. pre-entry, how would this be handled as far as those with top 4 standings? Generally only pre-entered riders are rewarded with better grid positions for their commitment to an event ahead of time. Even the ROC is handled this way, if you don't pre-enter then you don't get to be gridded by your points standings.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

I hate to rain on the parade, but this will never fly.  CCS is notorious for not even having the preentry info when you arrive at a track.  I once arrived at a race 500 miles from home, and had to borrow $$$ to pay and start at the back.  I'd already paid when I preentered 6 weeks earlier.  In my opinion, that oops cost me a championship.
The next year they lost my preentry for the final race of the season after I had entered the whole year in January!  Thank God I only needed last place points to win the championship that year, because last place is exactly where I started.
Grid by points?  I hear they've even awarded season championships to the wrong rider!  CCS can't begin to keep up with its points tally, so the grid people wouldn't stand a chance of getting it right.  Then there would be the protests...
Forget it.  CCS isn't professional enough for this idea to work.
Or am I being too harsh...?

[Super Dave]

 I hear they've even awarded season championships to the wrong rider!

Been there.  All the posted results showed me as the champion.  Then somewhere it changed and I didn't get my expected championship...
 ???

Yeah, I have a few, but...

[PJ]

I hate to rain on the parade, but this will never fly.  CCS is notorious for not even having the preentry info when you arrive at a track.

The same thing has happened to me twice this year. That's one of the reasons I'd like to see CCS adopt this rule. AHRMA does it this way, and they are a much smaller organization.

But if we don't ask for improvements to the system and rules, things will certainly never change.

[PJ]

    Paul, another consideration is the fact that at the multi-region events you often times have a rider who holds top ranking in 2 or more of the regions attending.
    
     The only real concern I have is with post vs. pre-entry, how would this be handled as far as those with top 4 standings? Generally only pre-entered riders are rewarded with better grid positions for their commitment to an event ahead of time. Even the ROC is handled this way, if you don't pre-enter then you don't get to be gridded by your points standings.

Good points, Mike. I think that's a good idea on the multi-region situation.

Agree that pre-entry would have to be done by the class leaders to get the favored position.

[jer271]

I personaly agree with the proposed idea but with the first two rows not  just row one, and I also think they should revamp the point systym so you cant win the chapionship by being the riches individual but by being talented- Maybe use the fusa point systym so you cant buy your championship  :-/

[Super Dave]

Totally agree on points.

FUSA points would work.

Additionally, it would help with the bump to expert from amateur.  Rather than getting 30some points for last in some bigger races...you'd get none.  Would make it more proper for riders that are learning to remain at amateurs and for riders that don't race regularly to remain amateurs.

An amateur could still petition to be an expert (did that in 1988 myself because I wasn't close enough to one track or single organization to be in a decent points race).

As for a comparision with AHRMA....

What, do they have eleven road race event weekends a year...

CCS has 60...

Premier AHRMA events aren't pulling ten riders big classes anymore.  Meanwhile, a regional race at Blackhawk pulls in over two hundred riders with over 900 total entries.

[J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp]

This is my first of many future post on the CCS threads. I wish I would have joined much sooner!
I'm not sure that their is an easy way to set up the grids for CCS racing without pissing someone off!
So I'll just put in my 2 cents.
I'll give you a scenerio of my weekend at Blackhawk Farms 2 weeks ago. I was originally planning on going to VIR but since it was canceled our team packed up and went to Blackhawk for Kawasaki Cash. We had to post enter at the track and that put me on the sixth row for all the races. I'm usually not too worried about being on the sixth row since I get jackrabbit starts but seeing that extra gap between rows 5 & 6 made it a bit harder to get by guys into turn one.
Now I don't want to sound cocky but I know I was one of the fastest guys all weekend on a 600 having rode my AMA ZX6RR's. Blackhawk is a tight track and when you start in the 6th row it makes it hard to pass cleanly on the first couple laps without making contact. When there are guys doing 12's or 13's who are gridded in front of me it makes it really hard to pass while the front guys are getting away since they have a clean track ahead of them.
I recall of 2 big Kawasaki payout races that I had great potential to win but as I got into the bus stop in 10 - 12th the leaders where already 2 seconds ahead of me. Now when someone is only .5 to 1.5 seconds a lap slower than you it's hard to pass them on the brakes because the difference between them & myself is cornering speed & exit speed. I recall in the past racing CCS that I was an aggressive rider where I would bang bars to get by. Now I don't wish anyone to crash or to push you off the racing line so I tried to ease my way by but in the end when I finally got by guys I finished 6th. Needless to say I was a bit disappointed when the win was worth $2000. So I went into my last race with a little attitude and pushed my way back to the front on the first 3 laps while banging guys and almost running off the track on several occassions in 3 laps. I got up to 3rd and started realing in the leaders only to tuck the front end in turn 3 from trying to make up for a 6th row start while the leaders got away.
So yeah, I left another CCS round in disgust as I threw away some more money.

So here is my proposal:
I say since there is so much money on the line for racers who fund their season by their contingency money, to make qualifiying events for all manufactures contingency races such as Middleweight Supersport / Middleweight Superbike / and any other classes that have manufactures contingency payout. THERES ALOT OF MONEY AT STAKE HERE. Make it a fair chance for everyone.
Here watch this senerio: Put Tommy Hayden or any of the other fast front running AMA guys on the sixth row and make it a 8 lap race and see if he wins against his normal rivals while making it a safe race. It wouldn't happen.
Another proposal is to make the races longer in duration such as 12 laps or more. It's only a 2 mile track! Plus the payout races are premeir races that people want to see. Make them work for their money a little bit!
Just my 2 cents here.
I look foward to seeing everyone at Gingerman in Oct. We won't be going to VIR since the date changed and we can't get our crew to make the race.
Hello superdave and all the other racers out their. I look forward to writing on these threads in the future. Good luck everyone  on finishing your season on a high note!
Ohh and sorry for any erratic moves I made at Blackhawk to get to the front.
 :) ;D