Getting better rear tire grip

[zoner]

motomadness:

I'm not saying the problem is with the ride height,  I am offering it as a possibility.  I agree with what you are saying about getting the bike "stood up" as soon as possible whole heartedly.  But unless you make changes and feel the results(good or bad) how will you ever know if it can be better.  Suspension shops can give you great baseline geometry setups,  but every rider is a little different on how they like there bike set up.  And if you think that 3mm might not make a feelable difference,  I would have to argue that point.  Just my s cents.

[Super Dave]

...and enjoy your flight!!!!!!

You may feel mild discomfort.

Terms and conditions apply.

Your final APR might not reflect the current APR.

[motomadness]

zoner,

I think 3mm of ride height can be felt.  I've made those kinds of changes and felt a difference.  May argument was more related to the idea of anti-squat and what how does small amounts of ride height affect anti-squat.

Maybe an easier starting point is what is anti-squat?  Answer is spring motion terms.  What swingarm angle must you begin with?  What shock length must you begin with?

At some point, because of the way forces are multiplied, there would be some optimal adjustment range where the affects of adjustments have significant results, but outside or on the limits of that range, the affects are less noticeable.  I guess this is where GMD can get you closer to that range than merely seat of the pants trial and error.

[Super Dave]

What swingarm angle must you begin with?  What shock length must you begin with?

At some point, because of the way forces are multiplied, there would be some optimal adjustment range where the affects of adjustments have significant results, but outside or on the limits of that range, the affects are less noticeable.  I guess this is where GMD can get you closer to that range than merely seat of the pants trial and error.

What angle?

Really open question.

If you only take the angle as the determining factor, you've eliminated the length of the swingarm, for one.  That will affect how it all works.  Of course as the angle changes, so would trail and the like.  It's really a whole package.  So, what shock length would you start at?

Some suspension guys do have a "starting" point, but that's all it is.  Then it all goes back to trial and error.  That number might be based on one particular rider that they work with that prefers a particular set up.  Additionally, a particular tire, a particular modification to the fork, etc.

Some production motorcycles need dramatic changes to work in the correct fashion.  Those numbers can be ridiculous in one's eyes.

I've worked by myself trying to do things...and I've had decent results.  But I've also had the time to work with Jim at 4&6 having him do my stuff with the GMD system and then Hyperpro products.  My bike is very, very good...to say the least.  The refinement of my chassis is all about me really trying to find little things to whine about now...and about ME really riding harder and harder.  It's hard to really ride extraordinarily hard when the chassis isn't as good as it really should be.

Question always has to be:  How many tires, how many track days, how many races, and how much money will you sacrifice to try to make up for the simple opportunity to just get it done right?

Does it add value to the bike?  For me...LORD, yes!  

[motomadness]

I really like this discussion.  Sure would be nice if we had a data acq. system to play with.

[tshowrench]

Dont forget

What is the shock length?

At what length does the suspension come into the steep part of the curve?

Check your tire pressure?

What is your gearing?

What is your right wrist doing in relation to your lean angle?

Just thought  I would try to throw some more confusion in there....

[Gixxerblade]

Read this.

[INSANESTEVE777]

I RIDE AN SV AND IF YOUR SLIDING THE REAR END YOU DOING SOMETHING WAY WRONG!!  THE IDEAL SWING ARM ANGLE IS 13 DEGREES,PRIDMORE SAID THAT REBOUND TIME IS A COUNT ...1 ONE THOUSAND,2 ONE THOUND,3 ONE THOUSAND AND IT COME TO A STOP WITH OUT BEING JERKY. THATS WHAT THEY SAID NOT ME.
  I SAY YOU SHOULD MAKE IT SOFT ALL AROUND AND START THERE. IF YOU HAVE TO BIG OF A SPRING IT WILL STEP OUT ON THE GAS. ON A FOX A 450 LB SPRING WILL WORK WITH A 180-220 RIDER WITH GEAR WEIGHT. IM HUGE AND IT WORKS FOR ME.
   I RODE EX500'S WHEN I STARTED RACING AND I WAS TOLD TO HIKE THE REAR UP...WAY UP. SO I DID AND THE REAR SLID OUT SO EASY IT WAS SILLY!!! SO THERE IS A TO FAR WHEN IT COMES TO RIDE HIEGHT
    SO I LEAVE YOU WITH THIS.....LEAVE IT SOFT FOR THE SPRING AND DONT BE AFRAID TO PLAY WITH THE SETTINGS ON THE CLICKER!!! YOU CAN ALWAYS GO BACK TO THE SLID SETTING !! HEHE

[Super Dave]

I RIDE AN SV AND IF YOUR SLIDING THE REAR END YOU DOING SOMETHING WAY WRONG!!  THE IDEAL SWING ARM ANGLE IS 13 DEGREES

Ok, this is naive.

First measure your swingarm angle.  Make it 13 degrees.

Next, change your gearing, and then make the angle 13 degrees.

How about pulling up the fork tubes 20mm then adjusting the rear ride height to make the swingarm 13 degrees.

That number has been floated around, but it's relationship between all the components that actually make a difference in the whole handling of the bike...its pretty much not relevant.

It might come up as a reasonable angle in some situations, but it is not the end all.  If that were the case, everyone could have a 13 degree swingarm angle and have a great handling chassis.

You think Mat Mladin has a swingarm that is the stock length?  How will that affect the swingarm angle by itself?

Go faster on an SV and it might be sliding also.  Until you reach that limit, there might be something more to be gained in one's riding and feel of the set up.

[Thingy]

 ;D ;D ;D

Dave, my 1000 keeps spinning up on me.   I found that if I set the swingarm angle at 13 degrees, don't lean it over very far, and only give it 1/3 throttle, it won't slide around at all.

Sorry, I shouldn't pick on a newbie...  ;)

[INSANESTEVE777]

IF YOU READ WHAT I SAID,YOU'D SEE THAT I SAID THOSE NUMBERS ARE PRIDMORES NUMBERS AND NOT MINE!! BUT IF YOU DONT RACE THAN YOU SHOULDN'T TALK ABOUT SET UP. I READ ALL OF THE POST AND ALMOST NO ONE TOLD THIS GUY ANY NUMBERS. THEY TALKED ALOT OF THE SAME BLA BLA!! WHAT NUMBERS DID YOU TRY TO HELP OUT WITH???????? WOW YOUR FAST AND HELP FULL!! I WAS TRYING TO HELP AND IT SEEMS ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS TALK ABOUT HOW IT DOESNT WORK.
   I KNOW ALOT OF RACERS THAT ARE TO SLOW TO GET RACE TYRES UP TO TEMP,SO THEY HAVE TYRE PROBLEMS. I DIDN'T WANT TO COME ACROSS AS A A HOLE AND SAY "YOUR TO SLOW TO GET HEAT IN YOUR TYRES" BECAUSE THATS RUDE!! SET UP FOR CLUB RACERS ISN'T A BIG FACTOR. AT AMA LEVEL YES, MAYBE IF YOUR A FRONT RUNNER IN THE CLUB RACES AND THATS A BIG MAYBE.
  THERES ALOT OF FACTORS AND WITH OUT BEING NEXT TO THE BIKE ITS HARD TO SAY WHAT IT NEEDS. WHAT BIKE DID THE SHOCK COME OFF OF? THE LENGTH OF IT? HIS WEIGHT AND SIZE OF SPRING? TRACK TIMES,IS HE FAST,CAN IT BE NO HEAT IN THE TYRES? THERE IS TO MANY VERIABLES. SO PLEASE EITHER HELP OR TALK ABOUT SOME THING YOU DO KNOW!
    R1 HAS 13 DEGREES STOCK
    A 02 GSXR 750 RACE BIKE I ROAD ON THE TRACK  HAD 15 DEGREES ON THE SWING ARM
    MY R1 HAS 14.5
    I WAS ONLY GIVING A STARTING POINT TO WORK WITH!! THE MAIN THING TO GET RIGHT IS THROTLE CONTROL.  SO THE RACER WITH THE 1000 AT 1/3 THROTLE IS GOING IN THE RIGHT DERECTION!!! HE'S FAST!!  I'D TRY TO LEAN IT OVER A LITTLE MORE,BUT YOU MIGHT NOT HAVE THE SKILL TO HEAT UP THOSE TYRES!!