Any TZ pilots out there?

[tzracer]

Wow æ:o æThat's a pretty cool comparison. æAnd so where do those TZ's fit in that? æweight/power? æWeren't they purpose-built GP/race-only bikes?

The TZs you race against are customer bikes. None of the bikes I have seen at our races have many kit parts. Mark Stiles bike is essentially stock (he has a set of modified cylinders).

A stock TZ weighs in at about 220 to 230 lbs and may make 80 to 85 hp. The bikes cost about $18,000.

A full engine kit for a TZ used to cost about $20,000+. It would boost power to about 95 hp. The kits included carbs, reed cages, intake manifolds, cylinders, heads, ignition, pipes, airboxes, radiator. For an additional $20,000 or so you could get the 6 additional sets of transmission gears.

Rich Oliver's bike made a little under 100 hp and weighed in at about 200lbs according to Rich. Having raced against him, his bike was a rocket, it accelerated much better than mine, even though my trap speeds were about 1 mph slower at Road America.

An SV is much easier to ride near its limit than a TZ. A TZ (a 1991 ridden by Michael Hunter) used to share the track record at Blackhawk when the record was about a 1:11.8 (2 repaves ago).

[TZDeSioux]

But how different are the engines? The frames may be the same, but suspension and engine are not close to what you have.

Yamaha was still running YZRs in 2002
http://www.europark.com/machines/ny-rmlst.htm

I was comparing to the bikes that are winning rather than comparing customer TZs to the TZs being raced in GPs today.

That is exactly my point. The WGP 250's are not the exotic one off works machines like the past. It's nothing more than a thoroughly massaged customer bike. I'll show you a Japanese Magazine called Cycle Sounds where they compare a stock 03 TZ250 with Matsudo's TZ250 and you'll be surprised to know that the cases and the entire clutch assembly are the same as stock except whatever the hell they do to the cases.

[tzracer]

What about the Aprilias and the Hondas (the ones running up front)?

[TZDeSioux]

What about the Aprilias and the Hondas (the ones running up front)?

Those are a different story.  ;D Tom did say TZ pilots didn't he?  ;)

[tzracer]

I modified one of my earlier posts, when I originally read it, I read it as a generic comparison of the TZs that Tom races against, to the bikes he sees racing on TV. I thought that he meant the bikes that were winning, not comparing to the TZs that were running GPs.

Any of your articles give an estimate of cost of the TZs? I would guess, what, about $80,000 to $100,000 to duplicate if the parts are even for sale. I wouldn't mind a chance to ride one.

Ricecake?!? Not sure I even want to know ;)

[TZDeSioux]

I modified one of my earlier posts, when I originally read it, I read it as a generic comparison of the TZs that Tom races against, to the bikes he sees racing on TV. I thought that he meant the bikes that were winning, not comparing to the TZs that were running GPs.

Any of your articles give an estimate of cost of the TZs? I would guess, what, about $80,000 to $100,000 to duplicate if the parts are even for sale. I wouldn't mind a chance to ride one.

Ricecake?!? Not sure I even want to know ;)

you don't like ricecake? it's good for you :)

The article didn't mention anything about the price but you're figures are probably right. The suspension components gotta be HUGE dollars.

[tshort]

I read it as a generic comparison of the TZs that Tom races against, to the bikes he sees racing on TV. I thought that he meant the bikes that were winning, not comparing to the TZs that were running GPs.

I think that's what I meant :-/ :)  I don't recall any Aprilias or Hondas getting in front of me during the LWGP races, but those dang TZs under a good pilot are in a different league - they just fly on those things.  I'm sure rider has a lot to do with it, or maybe it's tuning - dunno for sure - because not all TZs get up front, but the ones that do are impossible for me to catch (on a stock 02 SV, anyway).

Here are some track lap records from Phillip Island (Australia - 4.45 km/~2.7 miles).  Notice the difference between the international and national lap records on 250s:

500cc GP (actually, I think this is MotoGP) International Valentino Rossi (Ita) Honda 1:32.233 20/10/02
250cc GP International Valentino Rossi (Ita) Aprilia 1:33.556 03/10/99
125cc GP International Daniel Pedrosa (SPA) Honda 1:37.983 20/10/02

World Superbike International Troy Corser (AUS) Ducati 1:33.019 18/04/99
Supersport (unmodified 600s) International Katsuaki Fujiwara (JAP) Suzuki  1:36.642 30/03/03
Sidecar International Steve Webster/Davis James (UK) Suzuki 1:38.726 18/04/99

FIM Superbike National Steve Martin (NSW) Ducati 1:36.149 08/06/97
Prod SBK National Shawn Giles (NSW) Suzuki 1:35.248 18/10/03
Supersport National Josh Brookes (NSW) Honda 1:37.111 18/10/03
250 PROD National Ben Attard (QLD) Aprilia 1:44.925 10/09/00
250 GP National Shaun Geronimi (NSW) Yamaha 1:37.448 02/05/99
125 GP National Peter Galvin (NSW) Honda 1:41.632 17/05/03

FYI, "250 Prod" refers to a production class for street-going 250 two-strokes, which are sold overseas but are not in the US. These bikes come stock with inverted forks, twin disk fronts, and big swingarms - very race-oriented right out of the box, but mods are very limited - like a supersport class.

[TZ_Boy]

  Tom the TZ's you race against are probably in the 240 pound range and are making around 70 HP.  The skill level to ride a TZ must be higher because the powerband window is very small, so I would say you are being outridden. ;D

[Protein Filled]

If there is any TZ out there that is only making 70 hp, then the tuner sucks!!  

Hey RiceFlake, how much power does your 2003 TZ make? I know it starts with a "9"...

:D

[TZDeSioux]

If there is any TZ out there that is only making 70 hp, then the tuner sucks!!  

Hey RiceFlake, how much power does your 2003 TZ make? I know it starts with a "9"...

:D

I don't know but my bike is freaking fast even with my 240 pound ass on it.  :)

[TZDeSioux]

 Tom the TZ's you race against are probably in the 240 pound range and are making around 70 HP.  The skill level to ride a TZ must be higher because the powerband window is very small, so I would say you are being outridden. ;D

 ;D ;D ;D  You gonna take that Tom?

[tshort]

;D ;D ;D  You gonna take that Tom?

What? Huh? Who?  It wasn't me...  :D

Hey - given that I'm at 68 hp and 385 lbs (not me - my SV), if you can't beat me on one o'those rice rockets, you ain't tryin'.  :P