Looking at new GM trucks (3/4ton+), any opinions?

[OmniGLH]

Hey all,

Since Kingpin Racing has managed to expand to *4* riders now, we're looking to move up to a substantially larger trailer.  Big enough that I'm starting to have concerns over whether my 5.3L powered 1500 Silverado will really cut the cake, especially since we're going all over the country.  Stuff is already starting to get loose and clunky on my truck (with all of ~30k on it) - and all I really use it for now is to get to and from work.  I can imagine I will wind up killing the thing if I log another 15,000 on it while pulling a 10,000lb trailer.

So I think it's time to look into getting a bigger truck.  I initially wanted a Ford Powerstroke... my dad works for Navistar (they build the Powerstroke diesel) so I can get employee-level pricing on it.  We borrowed an older 7.3L model for the trip down to Daytona last week, and while the power was awesome, I didn't really like driving the truck.  I much prefer my Chevy.  So I think I'm going to have to go the GM route, even though it's going to cost a bit more money.

Has anybody had any decent experience with the DuraMax diesel, and/or GM's 2500/3500 series trucks?   I know I saw TONS of them down at Daytona - so c'mon, own up...  :)

A few questions in particular:
1)  Anybody know of some independent websites that have basic data on HD pickups?  The Chevy website sucks, and I kind of want to compare stuff like turning radius, towing capacity, and fuel economy to other models - both other GM trucks (say, 2500HD vs. 3500) and other brands, such as the Ford and Dodge Ram.  The only one I really know of is dieselstop.com - but that's primarily a Ford site.

2)  One of the big things I hated about the F250 I borrowed was the turning radius.  4-door, 4wd shortbox, and the steering radius was HORRIBLE - I think the front wheels turned all of 15 degrees at full lock.  Made it VERY difficult to back in a 16' trailer.  I can only imagine how much worse it would be with our 24+ footer.  How is the turning radius on a similar, 4-door 4wd GM 2500?  What about the 3500?  What about just an extended-cab version of the two?

3)  What kind of actual fuel economy are you seeing?  Loaded and unloaded?  The F250 I had ran about 14mpg when loaded... but only saw 16 when empty.  14 loaded is acceptable, but I would like to see closer to 20 when empty.  I know there are "power" chips out there... but does anybody make a "fuel economy" chip?

4)  Main options I'm looking at... the DuraMax, the 5-speed Allison, the tow and plow packages, and the 2nd alternator.  Probably going to be an extended cab, tho I may opt for the 4-door, and haven't decided on 2500HD or 3500 dually.  Anybody got any of this and have any comments?

Thanks guys!

[Eric Kelcher]

Here is some info for you from the Dodge camp. Turbodieselregister.com  It is a members only forum but you can do a lot of reading and searching still.

The six in the Dodge is really made for towing and mileage is right where you want. I average 21 with about 25% towing and 75% empty with about 75% highway.  best I have seen was 25 empty, worst was 11 loaded 28,690# :o  You need low end torque for really towing hard and with the new diesel motors they keep trying to compete against gassers. This results in the torque curve moving up which is great unloaded but loaded the V8 motors really have a rough time with getting a heavy load moving. The old 7.3 Ford motor is proving to have been a better towing motor at this time the 6.0 has had some issues.

[porky]

I myself have just traded in a 01 duramax dually automatic, no probems pulling a 24 footer with 4 bikes and gear. Averaged 13 mpg at 75 mph. But I just purchased an 04 duramax automatic and am already getting better mileage, with 800 miles showing i'm getting 16.2mpg. They say the new duramaxes are being built by another factory and have numerous upgrades, I can also tell a difference in power. I haven't pulled the trailer yet, but shouldn't be any problem. The one I just purchased is also a duallie. You can check out banks website for power mods, and one thing to consider is that diesals actually get better mileage when they are pumped up a tad. I also had a similar probem about the ford, but like you I just am more comfortable in the chevy. Depending on the amount of weight you will pull you might go with the duallie, the rating is higher, and the four door is the way to go, much more room than the extend cab. After 80 + thousand on the old one it never visited the shop once. By the way the mileage on the 01 was a 4wd and the new one is 2wd. But either way around open up the breathing on any diesal( air filter ,exhaust) will get about 1 to 2 mpg better from what i've encountered.  Hope any of this helps, by the way if you dont mind north carolina, i can put you in touch with  the owner of the gmc place i deal with , he might cut you a great deal.

[cb186]

i've got an 03 chev crew cab dually, duramax w/6-speed (4x4). i haul a 26' trailer that runs about 9000lbs when loaded. with the cruise set at 75 to 78, air cond on and just letting it run the hills to and from MAM(i live in mn) i get 10 - 11 mpg. normal day to day driving which includes lots of rush hour, i get 17-19mpg. 30k on it so far and no problems. love the way the chevs drive, one finger on the wheel at 75 mph. havent owned a truck yet that i liked better. i really like the stick too, i dont trust autos any more, especially the allison. save $2500 also.
chad.

[Super Dave]

3)  What kind of actual fuel economy are you seeing?  Loaded and unloaded?  The F250 I had ran about 14mpg when loaded... but only saw 16 when empty.  14 loaded is acceptable, but I would like to see closer to 20 when empty.  I know there are "power" chips out there... but does anybody make a "fuel economy" chip?

16 empty is ok.  Really depends upon how you drive it.  If you're runnin' it into the turbo, she'll use more fuel.  Where you're getting your fuel can make a difference.

I have a Superchips Micro Tuner in the bus.  The new one's have three power settings.  Usually the lowest power map, 100ft# of torque, it good for a little better mileage.

What it has for a rear end will dictate things.  On a Power Stroke, they are really sensative to RPM's.  Keep it at 2000 RPM's and below, better mileage.  How fast you go will be dictated by your rear end.

I usually buzz around at about 2100 or so. But if I need to go faster, I'm gonna use more fuel.

How big was the trailer you guys used?

And, of course, you know that the 7.3 PS is no longer in the Ford line up.

I rode in a Chevy with the Isuzu Duramax Diesel with the Allison trans...it was cool.

Turning radius?  Well, R6's don't have highway pegs...  You want turning radius, buy an Isuzu, Iveco, or Hino cab over box truck.

Hansen still has his 2003 Dodge.  That's a nice set up too.  

It's for sale!!!!  His trailer too!

[stumpy]

 Have you looked into the "short buses" Like Super Dave's?  That seams the the cats @ss. Set up the inside for 2 bikes and living quarters, and you can still tow a decent trailer. The only prob is it might be a pain for everyday driving :-/ I was looking at diesel trucks this weekend, then I saw the sticker :o
We may need something bigger cause there might be two new riders in the team :)


Stumpy

[Nate R]

After 2500 miles in the short bus, I agree about it being a VERY nice setup for the $.

Dave's getting his to the point where it's almost all set. TV, Microwave, fridge.    8) Nice seats in there too, with one being a van bench seat that folds flat into a nice bed.

Though with 2 people in it, I was glad we didnt have to have any bikes in the bus with us.

It's cheap enough to not use as a day-to-day vehicle. I think we got about 11-12MPG on the way down to daytona, but we were running a lot into the 2200 RPM range and spooling up the turbo a lot. I think we saw 13 on teh way back.

Driving the thing was nice, too. I can't compare to other diesels, but it was comfortable.

[Super Dave]

The bus rocks... ;D

Mileage may have been a little lower than what Nate said, but I think he's close.

As for an everyday driver...

You have to drive around with me when I don't have a trailer... 8)

Mine's a bit small to have a bunch of bikes in it, but that's why I got a short one.

[Bernie]

I've got an 03 2500HD 4X4 four door with Duramax and Allison.  I don't drive Fords (*please*) so I can't compare the turning radius, but it's no worse than my last Chevy, a 95 ext cab 4X4.  

I get about 16.5 to 17 mpg blasting around town and have gotten over 20 while on cruise control on long trips with no trailer.  Trailering mileage for me and my, er, short trailer is about 15mpg.

It's the shiznit.

[Nate R]

You have to drive around with me when I don't have a trailer... 8)

;D    :D 8)

[OmniGLH]

i dont trust autos any more, especially the allison. save $2500 also.
chad.

What are the rumors regarding the Allisons?  I thought those things were supposed to be darn-near bulletproof?

The only person I've ever known (friend of a friend I used to work with) to have problems with his Allison blew it up running a chip, propane injection, and 37" tires.

[OmniGLH]

Thanks for all the replies guys.

Dodge is not an option.  I (along with several family members) have owned multiple Chrysler products in the past, and I will never own another one.  While I know the Cummins is a pretty bad-ass motor... I don't trust anything else.  Poor build quality, poor reliability, and a resale value that is in the toilet... no thanks.  I do appreciate the information though.

A short bus?  Dave, you sure you want me to steal all your thunder on that one?  That's your trademark... "Hey where can I find a guy named 'Dave Rosno'?  -  Oh he's the guy with the short bus over there!"  ;)  Actually, I did briefly consider that... but decided to pass.  I need something that is gonna be a daily driver as well... and I think my homeowners association would flip out if I started parking a bus in my driveway.  

I know with the proper map, the new 6.0L Powerstrokes can see 25-26mpg when empty.  That's part of the attraction... being that I used to work for Navistar writing the engine management software (and still have family and friends that do), I have access to all the factory tuning tools.  Ramp up the rail pressure and injection timing, and pull boost a little, and voila!  

But, aside from the mod-ability, I didn't really like the truck.  It drove very much like a BIG TRUCK.  Which was cool at first.  But soon the novelty wore off.  My Chevy has much more of a comfortable, car-like feel.  It may make me less of a man to NOT want the "big manly BIG truck"  ;)  but if I gotta sit in traffic for 2.5 hours a day, it better be comfortable.  

Plus, if I go with GM, then my nice big stereo that I just put into my 1500 will port over nicely  ;)

I haven't really decided on a 2500HD vs. a 3500.  I definitely like the LOOK of the 3500 dually (damn they look tuff!)  but I don't know that I would really NEED it.  Especially since it's an extra ~$2k over the 2500.

I made the mistake of taking an '04 2500HD 4-door, 4wd for a test drive last night... me likey.  Everything I did not like about the F250 was resolved with this truck.  I think the only thing I am going to decide against is the 4-door part.  I think I'd rather have an extended cab.

Are you guys running the factory-installed hitch, or are you removing it and getting a different, more heavy-duty one?