Ugly rumor: no cash payouts in AM for '04?

[OmniGLH]

Hey guys,

Not trying to start/spread a rumor, but I need confirmation.  DanO had a customer come into his shop and mention that for 2004, all the AM classes will pay out with CCS "certificates" instead of cash.  Is that true?

[CCS]

All GT's will pay in Entry/License certificates, Speedscreen Unlimited GP Amateur and Expert will remain cash payouts. (Experts will qualify for grid positions where ever possible.)

[am_#65_john_deere]

is the expert unlimited gp race at road america ,a cshr race or a trophy race?

[CCS]

FRIDAY SCHEDULE
7:00AM  Gate/Registration/Tech Opens Groups 1&2
8:00AM  Practice as follows:
(2-Rounds each)
Group #1: All Even # Amateur 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
Group #2: All Odd # Amateur 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
Group #3: All Team Challenge
Group #4: All 125 GP, Ultra Lights, Lightweights & ThunderBikes
Group #5: All Even# Expert 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins  
Group #6: All Odd# Expert 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
8:05AM   Tech Opens for All classes
11:15AM: Learning Curves Race Clinic
11:30AM Lunch Break
11:35AM Riders Meeting
12:30PM  Learning Curves Race Clinic
12:45PM  CCS 30 Min GT Races
1.      Akrapovic GTU (Ex/Am)    
2.      GTL (Ex/Am)
3.      GTO (Ex/Am)      
4.      Learning Curves Race Clinic
Exhibition Race        (4 laps)
3:00PM Team Challenge 250km (39 Laps)

 5:00PM Registration Closes

 SATURDAY SCHEDULE
7:00AM  Gate/Registration/Tech Open
8:00AM  Motorcycle Warm-ups Begin
       (1-Round each)
Group #1: All Even # Amateur 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
Group #2: All Odd # Amateur 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
Group #3: All Expert HW, & UNL Classes, SuperTwins & Formula SportBikes
Group #4: All 125 GP, Ultra Lights, Lightweights & ThunderBikes
Group #5: All Even # Expert MW, SportBikes and SuperBikes  
Group #6: All Odd # Expert MW, SportBikes and SuperBikes  
8:00AM      Registration Closes for Sat Races
9:45AM Riders Meeting
10:15 AM Qualifying (15 Min Each)
SuperBike
EX Unlimited GP
SportBike
ThunderBike
Formula SportBike
Lunch Break (60 Min)
CCS 5-Lap Races As Follows:
1.      Middleweight SuperBike (Ex &Am)
2.      Lightweight GP (Ex & Am)
3.      F- 40/LW F- 40 (Ex & Am)
4.      Middleweight GP (Ex & Am)      
5.      Heavyweight SuperBike (Ex & Am)  
6.      LW SuperBike (Ex & Am) / 125 GP
7.      Speedscreen Unlimited GP (Ex & Am)  
                        (Trophy Only)
8.      SuperTwins (Ex & Am
9.      Middleweight SuperSport (Ex & Am)
10.      Heavyweight SuperSport (Ex & Am)
11.      CCS ThunderBike (Ex & Am)/
12.      Unlimited SuperSport (Ex & Am)
13.      LW SuperSport (Ex & Am) / Ultra Light SuperBike (Ex & Am)
SUNDAY SCHEDULE
7:00AM  Gate/Registration/Tech Open
7:30 AM CCS Riders Meeting
8:00AM Motorcycle Warm-ups Begin
       (1-Round each)
Group #1: All Even # Amateur 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
Group #2: All Odd # Amateur 250 GP Bikes, All MW, HW, & UNL Classes, & SuperTwins
Group #3: All Expert HW, & UNL Classes, SuperTwins & Formula SportBikes
Group #4: All 125 GP, Ultra Lights, Lightweights & ThunderBikes
Group #5: All Even # Expert MW, SportBikes and SuperBikes  
Group #6: All Odd # Expert MW, SportBikes and SuperBikes  
8:00AM      Registration Closes

9:45AM EX Unlimited GP Qualifying

10:00AMChampionship Cup Series 5-Lap Races As Follows:

1.      LW SuperSport (Ex & Am) /
Ultra Light SuperBike (Ex & Am)
2.      Unlimited SuperSport (Ex & Am)
3.      Middleweight SuperSport (Ex & Am)
4.      Formula 40/LW Formula 40 (Ex & Am)
5.      CCS ThunderBike (Ex & Am)
6.      Heavyweight SuperSport (Ex & AM)
7.      SuperTwins (Ex & Am)
Lunch Break-FUSA Riders Meeting (60 Min)
8.      F-USA Formula SportBike (10 Laps)
9.      F-USA SuperBike  (10 Laps)
10.      F-USA ThunderBike (10 Laps)
11.      F-USA SportBike (10 Laps)
12.      Speedscreen Unlimited GP (Ex & Am)  
(Trophy Only)
13.      LW SuperBike (Ex & Am) / 125 GP
14.      Heavyweight SuperBike (Ex/Am)
15.      Middleweight GP (Ex & Am)
16.      Lightweight GP (Ex & Am)
17.      Middleweight SuperBike (Ex &Am)

[OmniGLH]

All GT's will pay in Entry/License certificates, Speedscreen Unlimited GP Amateur and Expert will remain cash payouts. (Experts will qualify for grid positions where ever possible.)

Hmm.  Bummer.

Definitely moving up to expert after the first or second weekend then.  All I want is ONE 1st place plaque, then I'm moving up.

[Jeff]

Cert payout isn't bad people!  

Use the cash that you were going to spend on entry fees towards whatever you would use the payout check!

If you need cash for certs that bad, Sell them!  I'll give you .8:1 on each!  

[OmniGLH]

It's still not as good as cash.  Especially if the certificate amounts are going to be the same as the cash payouts were.

Entering GTO costs $70.  Winning GTO pays out $180.  So I profit $110.  I can pay for my next GTO race AND put $110 back in my pocket to pay for gas, food, a WERA weekend, a trackday.

If I get a certificate for $180, then I can ONLY pay for CCS stuff.  Kinda like an in-store credit (I *hate* those.)  Say I do really well this year, and at the end of the season, I have a stack of unused CCS certificates worth $1,100.  Now what am I going to do with $1,100 in CCS money?  I'd rather have cash to put into a new bike, parts, etc.

[OmniGLH]

And Tiff (and the rest of the CCS staff)... I'm not complaining, really.  I think it's great we get anything at all in return.

But the cash payout was kinda nice.  Definitely softened the blow to a $1,000 weekend if I could come home with $200 in checks... made me feel like I accomplished something.  I'll miss it.

What DOES STINK is if you guys took away the cash payout for the expert classes too.  THAT is a BIG bummer IMO.  Ditching it for the AM class just gives me that kick in the pants to move to EX.  :)  (Even though I don't think I've accumulated 500 points in a combined 2 years of racing..)

[TZ_Boy]

  Do the Cert's count as income which must be claimed on taxes?  If not the Cert's are better.  If you pay $70 to enter a race and get a check for $65 and have to claim that as income on your taxes that sucks.

[OmniGLH]

Do the Cert's count as income which must be claimed on taxes?  If not the Cert's are better.  If you pay $70 to enter a race and get a check for $65 and have to claim that as income on your taxes that sucks.

Well, I think it's a wash if you play the game right.  Incorporate yourself (as Kingpin Racing is planning to do for 2004) and you'll need to show SOME form of income, in order to claim losses/expenses.  If you just write off a bunch of expenses, without showing any form of income, Uncle Sam will probably start to get suspicious.

A buddy of mine (who races Dodge Neons) got close to $5k back on his tax return last year due to racing expenses.

[ecumike]

It's still not as good as cash.  Especially if the certificate amounts are going to be the same as the cash payouts were.

Entering GTO costs $70.  Winning GTO pays out $180.  So I profit $110.  I can pay for my next GTO race AND put $110 back in my pocket to pay for gas, food, a WERA weekend, a trackday.

If I get a certificate for $180, then I can ONLY pay for CCS stuff.  Kinda like an in-store credit (I *hate* those.)  Say I do really well this year, and at the end of the season, I have a stack of unused CCS certificates worth $1,100.  Now what am I going to do with $1,100 in CCS money?  I'd rather have cash to put into a new bike, parts, etc.

Like JeF4y said... sell them for their value.  I'm sure you can find somone who'll be nice enough to trade certs for $$ with you.

[MELK-MAN]

And Tiff (and the rest of the CCS staff)... I'm not complaining, really.  I think it's great we get anything at all in return.

But the cash payout was kinda nice.  Definitely softened the blow to a $1,000 weekend if I could come home with $200 in checks... made me feel like I accomplished something.  I'll miss it.

What DOES STINK is if you guys took away the cash payout for the expert classes too.  THAT is a BIG bummer IMO.  Ditching it for the AM class just gives me that kick in the pants to move to EX.  :)  (Even though I don't think I've accumulated 500 points in a combined 2 years of racing..)

sounds like yer makin a case for youself to get bumped to expert anyway ;D
.. and uncle sam wont be suspicious for 5 years..I run my racing through my bus. but i have gotten a few real estate appraisals from the guys i ride with. The racing is an "advertising expense".. just racing by itself as a bus. could be tricky..get with you accountant..