Fans on the 2002 600

[smoke]

I took of the radiator last night as it has a big ol hole.  Can I run the bike with out a fan?  Will it run hotter?  Does that mean i will need to run evans vise water weter?

Greenwood: my reply back to u got kicked back

sorry all I forgot the word FAN.

[HeHateMe]

Man you can't run that bike with no rad. just get a new one (or used) and put it on...like I did...trust me it should be a whole lot easier on that 2002 then on my 2003 1k

[dwilson]

Runnig without a radiator would yield about the same results as running without oil...  Even if you had coolant and routed the coolant line to each other, the motor would pop.

I'd call a bike junk yard or watch Ebay.  

[smoke]

sorry I forgot the word "FAN"  Can I run the bike with out a fan?

[dwilson]

Yes you can run without a fan, just keep an eye on the temp gauge at idle as it will over heat after a few minutes without air flow.

[sdiver68]

I ran my 02 GSXR all year with no fan.

Like was mentioned, the only thing is shut off the engine if you have to sit still for an exteneded period.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     Boiling point of Evans NPG = 370*  (you don't have to drain it in the winter either!)


      ;D ;D ;DThe stuff is awesome!  ;D ;D ;D

[Zac]

    Boiling point of Evans NPG = 370*  

So what if it boils at 370*, do you really want your bike to be running at 370*?  I think I'd turn it off at 220.

-z.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

So what if it boils at 370*, do you really want your bike to be running at 370*?  I think I'd turn it off at 220.

-z.

     I will explain why this is more important than you may realize. Though lengthy, I believe I explain why I am hooked on the stuff.

     Water boils at apx. 212* (depending on altitude) and can be restrained to a slightly higher boiling point by being under pressure as in a traditional cooling system found in motorcycles. Adding ethylene glycol (antifreeze) can also help to raise this point a little more. I have heard by combining these 2 things the boiling point can be raised to around 225* (give or take a little - though some will claim higher).

     The problem with water based coolants is that they are very susceptible to localized hot zones in your engine. Coolant that comes in contact with extremely hot areas in your engine such as cylinder walls and heads can very quickly boil the water locally at these extra hot areas. When this happens a steam layer forms on that area of metal and no longer allows the actual coolant to come in contact with the metal. Since steam is a very poor transmitter of heat, temperatures in these areas can quickly reach critical temperatures which causes loss of power and can damage engine components (warped head, damaged cylinders, worn/sprung piston rings, or worse!). The deception of water based coolants is that you see your temp guage at 205* and you think that is what your bike is running at, when it actually is much hotter in some areas (which locally increases dramatically as steam layers form on the metal surfaces inside your bikes cooling system).

     The advantage of Evans NPG (Non-aqueous Propylene Glycol) is that you have no water in the cooling system at all. Water transfers heat ok, but NPG transfers it even better, absorbing heat from the metal sufaces in your cooling system and releasing that heat more effectively while traveling thru the radiator. Since the boiling point of Evans NPG is 370* you have coolant in constant contact with localized hot zones for longer before it begins to boil- if it boils at all (apx. 165% longer than water based coolants), therefore transfering heat much more effectively. An engine running NPG and displaying 205* on the temp guage would be much more representative of an actual 205* overall engine temperature.

     A good example of how well this works is to take 2 containers and equally fill 1 with water and the other with NPG. Now take a piece of metal and heat it up several hundred degrees in the oven or with a torch. Grab the piece with some tongs or pliers and quench it in the water (suspended in the middle of the fluid without touching the container). What you will see happen is that the water will create a steam layer around the metal piece and won't pull the heat away from the hot block very quickly. If you did this same test with the NPG you would see different results, less boiling and quicker heat dissipation. If you take 2 blocks of metal of equal size and temperature and quench 1 in the water and the other in the NPG for the same amount of time, the block quenched in the NPG will be cooler when removed.

     Oh ya, I haven't run a fan since I switched to Evans NPG. It's nice to come in from a race when it's 100* outside, shut the bike off, and not hear any boiling water rushing into the overflow! I have also sat on the grid in that heat with the bike running during a red flag situation for 10 minutes and it didn't even faze it (even though I had just been racing prior to the 10 minutes of idling).

     Everyone has there own opinion on what they believe is the best way to do something, this is the way I currently believe to be the best for engine cooling.

[Zac]

Don't mind me, I've just never bought the alternative (and still slippery) alternative coolant thing.

As far as the boiling point of water in a pressurized system, for an ambient pressure of 14.7 psia (sea level), with a 9 psid radiator cap the coolant will boil at 237 F, with a 12 psid cap boiling point is 242 F.  This data was obtained from "Thermodynamic Properties in SI" by W.C. Reynolds.

The main reason I don't buy the Evan's propaganda is the localized boiling theories.  The first reason is that we make motorcycle engines out of aluminum, which has a very high thermal conductivity.  If a local area in an aluminum structure is heated the rest of the structure will rise to that temperture much more rapidly than in, say, cast iron.  Even at the high heat fluxes for a loaded engine, at steady state the thermal gradents in the engine components will be fairly low.  Therefore, a "hot zone" within the coolant passages cannot be significantly hotter than the surrounding surfaces.  Secondly, if the coolant passages were designed properly, there shouldn't be stagnet zones in the coolant flow that would allow local hot spots and localized boiling.  The turbulent coolant flow will induce thermal "mixing" of the coolant minimizing small high temp zones in the coolant which could result in boiling.  

To make a much more applicable variation of the bucket experiment, suspend a room temperture aluminum bar halfway in a bucket of water and a bucket of NPG.  Apply a thermocouple to each bar under the coolant line.  Now heat the exposed end of each bar (preferably with direct contact heating) and record the thermocouple tempature.  Unless you run your engine without coolant for a while, and then dump some in, the previous bucket experiment won't tell you much.

As far as comparing NPG with water, unfortunately I don't have the thermodynamic properties of NPG.  But I will say that the problem is not as simple as "water boils = bad cooling."  One would have to characterize the local boiling region.  What is the vapor fraction at the interface?  Dry steam and wet steam will have different enthalapies.  There is also a phase change occuring, bringing in latent heat effects, requiring MORE thermal energy to be transfered into the coolant for boiling to occur.

Water - the leading choice of primary coolant for nuclear reactors (followed by molten sodium).  ;D

-z.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     Zac: I don't doubt your view on this, but as I said before I believe this is the best solution that I currently know of for cooling a motorcycle. It is my opinion and that's it. I do know that my bike runs better with the stuff in hot weather and that my bike isn't boiling over on those days either (like many of the water cooled bikes do, as did my bike before I switched to this stuff - plus I ran a fan back then also).

[r6_philly]

but Evans is still sticky and slippery plus it is illegal for WERA. I would put it in my bike, but I gotta race both series...