Bumps

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Man, I just hope all you slow, sucky guys end up as experts.  Up here on the white wave, all the fast guys just disappear, leaving me to race alone.  I need some slow experts to play with!

[Super Dave]

Being an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing.

Thank you, Tiffiney.  That's what I've said all the time.  It ain't about how fast you are.

[GregR6]

"Being an expert isn't about winning an amateur championship, it's about understanding the sport and knowing what you're doing. "
"Thank you, Tiffiney.  That's what I've said all the time.  It ain't about how fast you are."

I don't understand. How does accumulating 500 pts mean you, I, or anyone in question "understands the sport" or "knows what they're doing"??  To get 500 pts, you must do something right, i.e. be FAST enough (or attend enough events) to finish well enough to get there. So, in essence, it kinda IS about how fast you are.  And I must admit, after 3 weekends... I still don't really know what I'm doing. I still can't even remember to bring the right paperwork to tech yet  :-[

"And if you have 6 top five finishes and 1036 points, I think it's safe to say you can go up. "

I don't think that is enough "evidence" to make that decision, and I know you will/would take more into account when deciding on one's petition. ...right? ???
i.e. performance index, where they double points, so on and so forth.......

I don't disagree with the rules, well I guess I do.  It just seems like we need to, as an organization, create some consistency...that ultimately better assists the "management" in the bumping process by setting guidelines that are more befitting to what it actually means to be an expert....or amateur.

The 500 pt rule is BS IMO, and yes I realize I'm beating up on that one in my example... Same goes for the Daytona Top 5. I, correct me if I'm wrong, do not have to do a SINGLE race all season, and I can race at Daytona, right? (VS WERA, where you have to qualify for GNF/ and no, I didn't go to Daytona) So, I show up, not having done 1 regional event, place 5th in MWSB, for example, and BOOM: I'm expert material.
Who made that rule up??

IMO, Daytona should be taken COMPLETELY out of the question when it comes to "bumping". For 1, Daytona doesn't even count for points!  Yes, it's the ROC and decides the National Champ for each class, but look at how many people actually go. It could/would be different if Top 10 or 15 in EVERY region showed up to duke it out... but that will never happen.  Bumping should stem from the meat of the racing - the regional championships. Enough rambling on that.

My main issue here is that there are many different types of racers out there. Some race for 10 years and never see a podium. Some go to there first event and get 3 out of 4 podiums.  ;) That doesn't necessarily mean "they" have the knowledge, experience, and "skill" that it takes to compete in the expert grids.  Especially when taking into account if it was done on the only track within the region that the racer has any experience on...

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

 Just for the record...
Another thread on this board has informed us all that the lovely Mrs. Tiffiny is pregnant! :o  Hmmm.  Hormonal swings, mood changes, shoes & clothes that fit yesterday don't fit today...
Man, I'm sure glad I'm not petitioning to stay amateur this season...  ;)  :D

[GregR6]

 ;D

Pregnant or not, women can rationalize better than us guys, so I think she'll make the right decisions.

Congrats Tiff!  :D

[TiffineyIngram]

Well, K3, I can tell you that ticking me off right now is very much bad--ask Eric.  For anyone to insinuate that I might not put thought into petitions is ridiculous.  Those of you that know me know that.

As I have stated many times, I am not going to say "oh, you have x amount of points, you're bumped" and close the book.  I look at the performance index, where you raced, who you raced against, where you finished, and how many bikes were in the race.  For example, if you're riding and finishing up there with Dafan or Peanut, you must be doing pretty well.

As far as Daytona counting, it absolutely should.  If you are an amateur and do not race all season and come to Daytona, you will be on the back of the grid.  In Middleweight Superbike (or any other mainstream class), if you come from the back of a 50 bike field and take 5th, yes you SHOULD be an expert.  How could that not be fair?  It's not like Daytona is an easy track.  I have more respect for those of you that have been there than to say "Daytona's not that hard, it shouldn't count."

Also, if you're a Mid Atlantic racer, where grids are the biggest for the most part, and you finish in several top fives, the majority of the time it is the same senario as Daytona.  You've got the technical stuff down.

I don't believe that anyone can ever know everything about this sport.  Racers will probably never understand the behind the scenes stuff, just like I will probably never understand everything that goes on under a helmet.  Because of that, I am not willing to say I am an expert by any means.  However, when I get petitions that say "I want to stay amateur so I can win more money" that really bothers me, as it should bother all of you. The petition process is what we have come up with to try to eliminate that from happening.

[GregR6]

Thank you for clearing up my ignorance about Daytona. See!?  ;D TOLD YA I didn't know what I was doing! LOL  That IS a lot of emphisis on 1 race though. What if I came from 50th at a Summit or VIR race and WON? Expert? nope. 65 points. :)

For the record, I'm not trying to "tick you off".  I'm just asking questions...trying to learn...in a fun/sarcastic kinda way.  :P

Do I wanna stay Amateur because of money? Absolutely not. To an end, my goals for next year (in AM) will hopefully get me seen, moreso than I will in EX, which will hopefully gain me some support for 05. I know that was the goals of many Am's this year, most of which are mentioned in this thread already. Whether or not they reached their goals is their perspective, but they raced in 02 and did rather well, and they were all Am's in 03.  ;)

[Peanut]

if you're riding and finishing up there with Dafan or Peanut, you must be doing pretty well.

hey it's been a shitty day and a compliment goes along way right now, thanks!  ;D

I know that was the goals of many Am's this year, most of which are mentioned in this thread already. Whether or not they reached their goals is their perspective, but they raced in 02 and did rather well, and they were all Am's in 03.

this is my take since i'm probably 1 of those guys.  i'm not going to spout the normal "i deserved to stay", yada, yada.  i went round and round last year about what to do.  i had only 1 top 5 finish, but ran in that 2nd pack of guys for the 4-5 events i attended last year.  i wasn't really aware of the contingency stuff and because at the time i was in a good financial position, wasn't worried about it either.  i consider making expert a achievement, i'm just as excited about that as the victory at daytona.  i thought i made the right decision based on my performance last year, that's it.  

Could i have moved up and at least not get run over? yup.  been a bit competitive? looking back now, probably so.  did i question the guys who had more points and were higher up at the end of the year but also stayed? (i was 40th i think w/900 points) no, not really my business.  would i have moved if i had run in that top 5 more than once? no doubt!  i would've wanted to not get left behind by those guys.  they would've been my equals and who wants to be left behind by their peers?

i'm way to competitive for that.

i guess this will be a subject every year forever. many have talked about lower points, new this and that, but that's not the point.  it's within the rules to send in a petition within certain perimeters.  however remember the fastest guys over the last two seasons in the ma came from nowhere, alex and hector. throw in wera's chad larson, arnie hastings, ryan ellerby, and the kid on the kawi at summit just to name a few, and you have a shitload of superfast guys that just started.  hell i think jesse from the mw region is brand new too and he's the fastest of them all!

staying am for a fast guy now doesn't guarantee anything. someone is coming again to surprise us all.  everyone has to ask themselves, do you really want to be left behind by your peers?

[madanalyst]

i'm a perfect example of an amat that started nearly mid season (May) and accumulated over 1k pts with 6 top 5 finishes and a couple 2nds.  But i competed in 4 races per event and in many of the races, particularly MWGP, the competetion was fewer than 10 riders.  In my region, i had lots of practice at Jennings before hitting official race for first time, but i'm still relatively new at Morosso (<3 times on track) and will see Homestead for first time in early Dec.  Never been at Daytona, nor do i care to attend until i get more experience under my belt and feel i truly qualify as an expert in my own mind. I've already petitioned to stay amat and i'm hoping seriously CCS sees that i still have a lot to learn and that i feel i can learn best in the amat class where new and existing riders will be quite competitive next yr.  

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

Well, K3, I can tell you that ticking me off right now is very much bad--ask Eric.  For anyone to insinuate that I might not put thought into petitions is ridiculous.  Those of you that know me know that.

Come on, Tiff!  We're friends, remember?  I remember when you used to laugh at my jokes...

[GregR6]

Should I consider you a peer because I was finishing with you? In a sense I see where you're coming from- Seriously... I'm going round and round myself. But I don't think "you guys" would be "leaving me behind", really. I would see ya in 05, right?  :) 04 as an AM would give the opportunity to race against those with those "peers" with about the same experience as me.  You can't disagree that I have a lot to learn, despite some decent finishes.  We all know the military isn't the best paying career in the world, and it's not why I joined. However, I am thankful of the fact that the military has given me the opportunity to pursue racing.  
But as of now (LOL) they aren't paying my tire/entry fees, so I'll admit, yes, contingency will (hopefully) aid in some of my racing costs... But that's what it's there for - to help racers out.
I'm not saying I'm the only one in this position, but with 3 race weekends, and 7 trackdays, I can't just compare myself to you, Dafan, Hector, Donny, etc etc etc, (in most cases you guys have 5x or more the track time than I do) but bumping up I have to compare myself to guys like Trey, Tomer, etc etc etc.. as well.  Do I expect to beat those guys in my first year? Hell No.  But to say I will be competitive is a stretch to say the least.  :-/

Well, Tiff, I don't know what else to say. I've basically given any arguement I could in my petition, so if, by this, you think I should not be an AM, so be it. I'll look forward to my @$$ kickin next year.

[Xian_13]

I for one am happy I made this list...

But I already have my letter written...

1. To slow
2. See #1
3. Can't afford a cooler for my beer, how do you expect me to pay for White paint?

this letter will be given with a small amount of unmarked Quarters (can't afford paint, how can I give dollars away? ;D )