Paging Tiffany!

[Nate R]

Yeah, but, I'm a bit, umm, more weighty than Tom.  ;) I think I'll take the stock stuff, but go with one tooth down in front, and the 44 rear which is stock on the S.

[Super Dave]

Gotcha. Understood.

BTW, my Uncle is gonna go with me, so he needs leathers, like we had talked about before. 6'2", 200 lbs. Got any, or are they back at Vanson?

Also, I'll e-mail you about this, but I was going to ask for some advice about what setup changes, if any, to make for going to RA. Gearing, I suppose, since right now I'd hit the limiter down the front straight. I'll e-mail you, though.

Hey, don't look for me at NESBA.  Guess they don't like me helping people there either.  Hmm, more again about rider retention...Guess they must have all the answers after doing one AMA race...

Leathers?  I have them.  I have them for sale for Vanson.  Can't rent them unless I'm around, so I don' think I can rent them.  Is he looking to buy?  I'll have them for a little while, then they'll go back.

[Nate R]

Huh? So now you WON'T be there? They won't let you?   >:( >:( :-/ Does this mean I can't rent you next year for a NESBA day? Maybe a friday practice then?  :'(

[Super Dave]

Huh? So now you WON'T be there? They won't let you?   >:( >:( :-/ Does this mean I can't rent you next year for a NESBA day? Maybe a friday practice then?  :'(

Yeah, it's kind of looking like that.  I guess you could ask anyone any information, right or wrong, and that would be fine.  But if you ask me, it's different.

Rent me on a Friday?  That's a hard one.  That's usually MY day to get set up.  And I'm not sure what's happening for next year.  Lots of trumoil this year.  Has left me a bit disappointed with a lot of stuff.  Trying to see what next year will bring...and where to do it.

[Nate R]

OK. Yeah, of course, you need your own time to do work on YOUR setup.  ;D

We'll see about next year, then, I guess.  :-/

[Super Dave]

Yeah, it's a while until next year.  Still have this year to do.

If anyone wants to step up to the plate and rent a date at Blackhawk for next year as an "open practice day for licensed racers", we can probably set up a racer day with Dave under that.

[G 97]

I would rather not discuss this in a public forum but I feel as though you have given me little choice in the matter.  
As we have discussed numerous times via E-mail, the reason has to do more with liability issues than anything else.  
NESBA is a member driven club and members are classified into three groups according to their skill level.    We have certain processes and procedures that we implement and follow.  Clearly you are not a Beginner or an Intermediate skilled rider.  We implement control riders who actively give feed back both on and on the track.  Having other members acting as control riders/instructors on the track only confuses the other members on the track and makes things a little more complicated.    
I guess I will simply say that you have the option of renting the track yourself and running your event anyway you see fit.  I can't understand why you are not willing to accept the same when NESBA does it.  I don't imagine anyone would hire Keith Code to instruct and then show up at Star.
I love to ride bikes just as much as you do and I love to share this passion with other motorcyclist as well.  Fortunately, I was able to get involved with the NESBA organization and was given the responsibility to run the Midwest.  I owe it to the NESBA members to deliver a safe, value-added-track-day experience.  One that is consistant with NESBA policy.  I hope you can understand this.

Not sure what the reference to one AMA race means or what the relevance is with regard to this matter.   I don't pretend to be anybody other than who I am.  

[Super Dave]

Liability issues...

What we do, as riders on a race track, is what we do on a race track.  The insurance that Visionsports, Inc buys is no different that CCE's, STT, NESBA, Star, etc.  It's a closed course event.  The difference would be that most organizations can potentially buy it globally or in bulk at a reduced rate.

If the issue is the passing of information, rider "Jim" can tell rider "Bob" something and something will or will not happen.  You can tell someone something and something will or will not happen.  Same goes for me.  Really no difference.  Track days, racing, and schools do no exist in a social or information vacuum.

NESBA, STT, and other events are offering themselves as programs that offer track time, the concept being that track time is the key to learning.  There is information that is passed between individuals, but you are not billing yourselves as a "school".  Individuals can sign up for time on the track.  Memberships are sold.  Pretty much a public day.

Schools like Star, CSS, etc have events that offer time on the track and they are offering the instruction, being that information is the key to learning under that program.  That's what Visionsports Riding Schools does.  

I'm sure that if Keith Code were to enroll in a Star School, they would probably take his money.  If her were going to go and help someone that wanted him to come, I'm sure they wouldn't care.  If they buy the time, I think they're in.  If they don't take advantage of the Star's staff for instruction, that's their decision.  On the tracks, the riders ride...  I have had people work with friends in my school.  Times where we have done something to accomodate riders.  What you offer is what you offer.  

NESBA is not about instruction...

The Northeast Sportbike Association (NESBA) is a not-for-profit
organization committed to providing motorcycle riders a safer and more enjoyable place to ride. NESBA was designed to get riders off the street and keep them safe by offering opportunities to ride at various racetracks throughout the Northeast, Southeast and Midwest United States.

      NESBA has the best program for street riders who want to have fun in a controlled environment and for racers looking for a place to practice. Whatever your goal, you'll be very pleased with all that NESBA has to offer.

Riders at various levels of their own personal comfort zone have a tendancy to peak.  Over many years, I've been in those spots myself.  Through my experiences and with the help of some of the people that I got to work with, I figure a few things out.  Some things that happened several years ago I figure out later.  

Regardless, often, much of the instruction that goes on ends up going back to "you look good out there."  It isn't enough.  Again, I think I stated this somewhere, this just basically leads to burn out and an unhappy rider.  A rider that can't understand or comprehend a way to do something differently...well, they go away.  That's a loss for everyone.  

I'm not everyone's answer.  But for some, I can offer a differnent way of looking at things.  I'm not outside when I've done this with a lecture hall, I keep to myself, etc.  I'm there to help someone.  Ultimately, that helps the rider, helps the motorcycle industry, and helps the sport.

Clearly, yes, I'm neither a Beginner nor Intermediate rider.  But NESBA doesn't classify me as Advanced.  Is that really relavant as long as I'm respectable and safe in the available environments?  I am not a control rider, so why would someone feel as though I am one?  I don't wear anything to denote that.  Nor do I wear anything to denote that I am an instructor.  Not sure what that was supposed to mean.

No, this wasn't meant to be a public forum, but don't give me something to respond to.

[smoke]

NESBA === >:(
 :-X :-X

[G 97]

NESBA is not about instruction....

Wrong. Yes it is.  Maybe not on the level you present yourself to be.  But YES we offer instruction.
 

But NESBA doesn't classify me as Advanced.  Is that really relavant as long as I'm respectable and safe in the available environments?

 

Yes, completely relavant.  You are Advanced therefor you should ride in Advance.

No, this wasn't meant to be a public forum, but don't give me something to respond to.

Then, why did YOU bring this whole thing up to begin with?

This is silly, if you want to participate with any NESBA events you have to abide by our processes and proceedures.  SIMPLE.  

No response required.

[Super Dave]

Wrong. Yes it is.  Maybe not on the level you present yourself to be.  But YES we offer instruction.

  

What are control riders?
Control Riders are pace setters of the track.

But that's not what NESBA sells.  But, yes, the control riders try to help.
 

Yes, completely relavant.  You are Advanced therefor you should ride in Advance.

True, it is relevent.  There was no opportunity for me to be "classified" as advanced.  In fact, there are no requirements to become a NESBA rider.  I just checked as I was told on the site.  The membership I purchased only lists me as an intermediate.

Regardless, unless I knowingly cause a danger to another rider, I'm sure that I'm cabable of riding with reasonable safety in an intermediate or beginner group.

Then, why did YOU bring this whole thing up to begin with?{/quote]
 
I didn't.  I was requested by those that are NESBA members to come work with them.  Just them.  We can have our own little hole in the wall doing our own thing.  We all pay our fees, we all do our thing.  It's not a competition.  I don't farm any people from your NESBA riders;  not what I'm there for.  If I wanted to do that, I show up and try to break the lap record or something.

The cost involved in doing this for the individual is way more than one of my schools, but they are looking for a different opportunity.  A practice/track day program like Pacific Track Time, Sportbike Track Time, DP, NESBA, TEAM HAMMER, etc. have these kinds of opportunities where a person can get some time on the track.

This is silly, if you want to participate with any NESBA events you have to abide by our processes and proceedures.  SIMPLE.

I did.  We entered the intermediate group on line, but got bumped to advanced before we even rode in the morning in August.  Next, we were asked to move to intermediate, and because of that we missed a rotation.  We're just trying to be accomodating.  Then, down to beginner.  If anything, our only sin would have been being too slow.  The gentleman's bike didn't make much power, but he didn't know it.  Felt like an FZR400 at best.  We purchased memberships and bought our spaces for the date.  

Don't blame us for not following any process or procedure.  'Bout all there is.

Garth, you'll make your decisions and that's it.  Yeah, I have a school, but that doesn't keep me from being David Rosno.  If N. R.'s (name with held) uncle pays his way to go to a NESBA event to have fun and help him out, are you going to afford that person the same thing that you afford me?

[G 97]

Dave, you need some instruction with the quote thing.  ;D  :P

For the record I am not blaming anyone.  Responsibility for what happens at any Midwest NESBA event lies soley with myself.

You are correct.  New members with NESBA can only sign up on line up to the Intermediate group.  After being evaluated if their riding skill dictates they are moved to Advance as long as they meet tech requirements.

We approached you to see if advance would be more appropriate as Intermediate group was stacked.  It was only after witnessing the on track session that we realized  that Advance was not the group to be in.  So a short time back in Intermediate and then in Beginner.  If I remember you both signed up for Intermediate and it was clear that the more appropriate group should have been Beginner.   We made changes as best we could under the circumstances.

Regardless of what NESBA is selling.  I just know what goes on at any nation-wide NESBA event - we offer both off track and on track instruction in the context provided.  This includes a short hot pit walk and 30 minute classroom session.  

Control Riders/ Instructors?? Please lets not discuss semantics.   Ironic that another track day organization calls them instructors  yet they give very little instruction as compared with NESBA CR's.  You are correct CR's do set the pace, while at the same time providing some basic level instruction.


Yes, Dave if you want to come to a NESBA event just like a normal member and ride in the Advance group and make small talk with other members you are more than welcome.  However, I remember you telling me that you do not do track days as it is a waste of your resourses etc.  

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