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Airbox Rule for the R6

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supercarl

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Airbox Rule for the R6
« on: August 30, 2012, 03:59:03 pm »
I hate the stupid airbox rule about the R6. It says you can't change the airbox any way, but you can change the airfilter with aftermarket. Well when you get an aftermarket airfilter it doesnt come with the intake funnel thing. Which supposdly violates the modified airbox rule. Even tho its not part of the airbox but actually the airfilter element.
 
Either make it so we can run without that intake funnel thing or so we cant change the airfilter at all. Just need some consitency. Almost lost a SS race because of this. Luckily I was informed before the race and was able to saftey wire an intake funnel thing to my aftermarket airfilter.
 
Just my opinion of course!  :cheers:
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Xian_13

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2012, 06:17:02 pm »
I actually spoke with Phil about this at Summit Point.

The rule is simply unclear.
Hopefully they will write the rule more clear for 2013.

If you do not agree with the rule, you can protest the CCS officials ruling.
Be prepared to file a protest against an official, it will cost 500 USD and the protest will be reviewed by a non-CCS official group, at Daytona.

If you so choose to protest them, I will be more then happy to give you the information I have.
This is a rule, I am not willing to spend 500 USD to fight.


-X
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supercarl

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2012, 06:22:46 pm »
I actually spoke with Phil about this at Summit Point.

The rule is simply unclear.
Hopefully they will write the rule more clear for 2013.

If you do not agree with the rule, you can protest the CCS officials ruling.
Be prepared to file a protest against an official, it will cost 500 USD and the protest will be reviewed by a non-CCS official group, at Daytona.

If you so choose to protest them, I will be more then happy to give you the information I have.
This is a rule, I am not willing to spend 500 USD to fight.


-X

You're absolutely right. The rule is unclear and I'm not about to spend $500 protesting it either. Thats why I just wanted to make the suggestion to revise it for next year. Just go one way or the other. I really don't care that much. Just want it to be clear.
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MELK-MAN

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2012, 10:03:33 am »
you can get a BMC air filter with a removable snorkel. it cost like $10 more than the version that doesn't come with the snorkel. I would like to know if it's supersport legal though.. the opening is slightly different than the OEM filter opening. Anyone know? i sent one of the officials an email.
I asked about the snorkel removal years ago, the thinking is although the snorkel is attached to the filter, it becomes part of the airbox once in place and thus the ruling you can't remove it. Taking it off DOES make more power than having it in place. Not a guess, but dyno proven by any builder of note.
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ekraft84

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2012, 10:15:23 am »
Why don't you guys just allow the air filter modification?  Within the scope of what Supersport is all about, the modifications aren't expensive and while they are a performance advantage, it is a small one.  BMC, Pipercross and other companies all make readily-available parts that are easy to put on your bike.  It becomes more work to fit within the rules of this compared to just plugging an aftermarket air filter on the bike and being done with it.

This is a common CCS topic and it seems that allowing it would be simpler.  There would be no CCS tech required to check people after races, people don't have to put up big money to protest someone for it, and it's a simple/cheap modification overall.  It's not aftermarket rotors or slipper clutches, which are expensive modifications and raise the price of being competitive in a Supersport series.

Just my two cents.
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twilkinson3

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2012, 11:55:00 am »
Eddie - slipper clutches ARE legal in CCS supersport, as are aftermarket rotors as long as they are ferrous and the same size as the stock ones (I might be biting on a bit of sarcasm from you but...)
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ekraft84

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2012, 01:31:12 pm »
Eddie - slipper clutches ARE legal in CCS supersport, as are aftermarket rotors as long as they are ferrous and the same size as the stock ones (I might be biting on a bit of sarcasm from you but...)

Really?  Pff.  I didn't know that.  So even if the bike doesn't come with a slipper clutch, you can add one (like on the Honda).  And you can add aftermarket rotors, like say Braking rotors?  I raced with CCS this past year and didn't even know that. 

Those are a couple expensive mods I'm glad aren't WERA legal, as it saved me a bunch of money (slipper's applying more towards SV's and the like, not modern bikes which most have them).  What about brembo master cylinders on the GSXR?

So then, if the SSTK rules allow those mods, why so strict on not allowing an aftermarket air filter that removes the snorkel?
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Eddie Kraft - #48
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roadracer162

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2012, 03:09:35 pm »
This may be a little off topic because it doesn't necessarily concern the R6, but Greg a certain rider was protested for his air box lid but he retained his Daytona win and thus National Championship. The difference in the lid came from the fact that the stock lid(without holes) was replaced with a Ducati performance lid(comes with holes). Certainly a slight performance advantage, but on these Ducatis you can gain 6hp by getting rid of the air box. Something must be done about the ruling on air box modifications.
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Mark Tenn
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Shipley81

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 07:05:45 pm »
I agree that the snorkel being listed as part of the air box is a little excessive.  Hope they do something since I'll have to rig something up to make my bike SS legal if they leave it as is.
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MELK-MAN

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 09:39:04 pm »
Really?  Pff.  I didn't know that.  So even if the bike doesn't come with a slipper clutch, you can add one (like on the Honda).  And you can add aftermarket rotors, like say Braking rotors?  I raced with CCS this past year and didn't even know that. 

Those are a couple expensive mods I'm glad aren't WERA legal, as it saved me a bunch of money (slipper's applying more towards SV's and the like, not modern bikes which most have them).  What about brembo master cylinders on the GSXR?

So then, if the SSTK rules allow those mods, why so strict on not allowing an aftermarket air filter that removes the snorkel?


yup. ccs allows brembo aftermarket radial master cylinders.. wera doesn't.
Even if ccs did allow the snorkel to be removed, they would still do tech to verify there IS an air filter of some sort.. i never understood why someone would do it, but apparently some feel NO air filter is a performance advantage and it is what tech officials are looking for.. in addition to a snorkel being on the r6 filter.

I talked with a tech guy today, and going to verify it with Garry tomorrow at the track. The BMC removable snorkel, if in place, makes it supersport legal. So you can run the OEM r6 filter, or get the BMC and just order it with the snorkel that is held in place with 4 small screws (got mine from STT Eddie).

The performance advantage WITHOUT the snorkel is significant.. On our dyno we saw nearly 3hp even before mapping changes. That was a simple back to back run with the snorkel, then without. Eric Dorn said he has seen even more, same with Kevin at KWS.
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Gino230

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #10 on: November 30, 2012, 01:09:06 am »
This may be a little off topic because it doesn't necessarily concern the R6, but Greg a certain rider was protested for his air box lid but he retained his Daytona win and thus National Championship. The difference in the lid came from the fact that the stock lid(without holes) was replaced with a Ducati performance lid(comes with holes). Certainly a slight performance advantage, but on these Ducatis you can gain 6hp by getting rid of the air box. Something must be done about the ruling on air box modifications.

Mark in my opinion that was a bad ruling. They provided a Ducati(performance) part number and tech was satisfied that that was "stock". Rulebook clearly states unmodified airbox. Period.

Having had my experiences with protests, I had nothing to do with that incident, but I do feel that more rules are not the answer. More uniform ENFORCEMENT of the rules is one suggestion.

Regardless of what is going on with the airbox, it was still an exciting race :)

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ekraft84

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Re: Airbox Rule for the R6
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 03:04:53 pm »
yup. ccs allows brembo aftermarket radial master cylinders.. wera doesn't.
Even if ccs did allow the snorkel to be removed, they would still do tech to verify there IS an air filter of some sort.. i never understood why someone would do it, but apparently some feel NO air filter is a performance advantage and it is what tech officials are looking for.. in addition to a snorkel being on the r6 filter.

And lightweight batteries are legal also, right Greg?

Just from a logistics standpoint, it seems that policing brembos and aftermarket rotors would be easier (visual) than an air filter modification (pop tank), but what do I know.  I was happy when the other series outlawed aftermarket rotors.  I had always gotten them, but it was now $300-$500+ less to spend.

If the stuff listed here is legal (rotors, clutches, brembos, batteries), I guess I just don't understand the reasoning behind policing the air filter. 
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Eddie Kraft - #48
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