questions on v front michelin

[roadracer162]

Drew, My Michelin guy recommends 30/22 cold pressure regardless of the ambient temp. I have done some but not much testing with the Michelin, I guess more observation than research and I have found a noticeable diffirence in just 1 psi. Now consider that I am on a Ducati 800(maybe the same weight wise as what you are running or even heavier) and with that said will stress the tire in a different way. I believe I carry similar corner speed as the fastest guys out there. My Ducati weighs in at 360# with two gallons of fuel on the ASRA scales. I just dont have the top speeds as the bigger bikes have but then the bigger bikes must slow for the same corners that I am railing on the gas. I also have seen a rise of 4-5 psi depending on track temps but mostly 4 psi is the standard. now I am not that precise with the psi check only because I am not checking the psi on hot pit.

I also have some other tricks gleaned from Mr Melka that I will use to learn more.

a wise man was once asked how much more grip a slick tire has. He answered, "7% more because that is the amount of rubber missing producing the siping on a DOT."

[benprobst]

What im saying is, buying into a distribution post doesnt make him the end all be all. I encourage people trying new things, but we have done it before and it didnt work, not sure why its working now aside from the fact that its trackday guys who are trying it. Call guys who have done it and lived it for the past 25 years like Walt Schaeffer and Tommy Mason. We run as high as 34 cold in the front tire. But im big, my bike is fast, I ride pretty quickly, and my style puts a lot of weight on the front tire. Standard front pressures are 30-31 cold, looking for around +3-5 on the warmers and plus 4-6 off the track. Rear pressures vary as well, we have had luck on hard tires running down to 19 psi cold. But the standard A and B tend to get the surface a little hot that low so we stick around 20-22.

[PlayHard]

29.5 HOT OFF THE TRACK.......find someone else to go to for information!  I run my front 34.5 to 35 Hot off the track and have had NO Issue's at all.  As Mark stated above, 30 / 22 cold is a good starting point and every one pound change is HUGE with the Michelins.  The one thing most people don't take into consideration is the pressures will constantly fluctuate throughout the day and thus you need to check them every couple hours.  My last race weekend  was the Jennings CCS event and my tire pressures fluctuated 3lbs from morning to afternoon.  Left unchecked, I would have had problems during the afternoon races with the tires.

What I do is set them at 30 / 22 cold  first thing in the morning.  Put the warmers on and then go out and run a good hard session.  Then the very first thing I do after getting the bike on the stands is check the Hot off the track pressures and write them down.  That hot pressure is the pressure I'll use the rest of the day.  

Greg Melka, who does some testing for Michelin, recommends using a spare tire, on a rim of course, to keep track of pressure changes.  He sets it at the cold temp and then puts it out in the sun.  He then periodically checks it throughout the day and notes any fluctuation.

Besides, a pushing issue is usually caused by the rear suspension.  Did you guys account for the taller front tire in doing your suspension adjustments?    

[PlayHard]

Al I am only being honest with myself with that statement. that statement is based on the observation of the time sheets where most have a faster lap time than I do but somehow I tend to keep up. Me thinks it's that awesome prepered Ducati that the MotoCorse team put together. It is a runner for a very mild build.

The Michelins have been a very good tire with more feedback than what I expected. Yes the Bridgeston that I first used slid sooner and maybe told you sooner that I was close to the limit. The Michelin des give good feedback but it does have more grip.

More than anything for my racing program the Contingency works well for my budget.

Mark, I was giving you a compliment buddy!  Lap Times mean absolutely nothing my friend, its where you finish and you usually finish somewhere around the front.  Since I always seem to find myself behind you, you are one of the fast guys to me:)

[roadracer162]

Thank you Al. I can only share my observations as well.

[drew231506]

All good information, thanks. 

[MELK-MAN]

Al, ya got the "control" tire thing down EXCEPT don't leave it out in the sun, 8) hide it in the shade under the trailer (in the trailer won't work if you run AC). It isn't as important to find out how much PSI goes up on days where it is already 80F at 9am, or your getting new tires as fast as you can run to the vendor, but if your running the bike in the morning practice and it is say 55F, then you are using these same tires later in the day and it gets to friggin 90F in the shade, you WILL see a 2-3psi increase in your tire pressure.. (warmer air expands)..well, that is an issue if your setting your rear at 22 cold, and after lunch you plug your warmer back in and it is now 25 PSI COLD.. it's gonna be 28PSI when you grid, and mid race the REAR will be like 32-33.. that WILL have you spinning a bunch.

As far as the 29.5psi HOT off the track, im not going to contradict another Michelin vendors ideas, or say that is "wrong". Dave G. is a stand up guy and im sure is trying to do right by his guys.  I will simply say that nobody im aware of, including the French engineers that came over when testing was done, nor any other trackside Michelin vendor from the east coast to the west coast that i have had conversations with (T.MAson, W.Sheafer,F.Kinsey), recomends 29.5hot for a front A/B/V PSI.     
As Ben P. and others may have mentioned, if ANYTHING, many of the faster riders including Rob Jensen were going as high as 34PSI COLD on the V front, looking to firm up the softer carcas (the V has 4 plys, the A/B have 5 plys..they are MUCH firmer).     
I will say i tried running the front with about 25psi cold once... I though i was going to die.. I came in .. told my suspension guy at the time "don't ever do that to me again".. LOL

ALthough the V is a softer carcas with 4plys, it has its pros/cons. The V although more "flexy" having the 4 plys, has very good side grip. I found this tire AMAZING on Lt Wt bikes. And as Mark mentioned, it works from 50f to pretty darn hot outside, it warms up because it flexes some. The A/B front some like better, for the trail braking stability of the 5 plys. The faster riders that i talk with simply will take the increased side grip over the braking stability.. There IS a NEW V out, or so i hear, but nobody has actually been able to tell (that I know of) that it is actually here, and not just a newer production date but the same old V..

Drew, not sure what your lap times are or where ya finish in the Expert class.. if your pushing the V front, i would be more inclined to say you have a set up issue, wrong pressures, perhaps charging the corner too hard, using takeoffs with a gabillion laps?? Not sure.. It is a pretty darn good tire, and i know Brian Stokes and Matt Lynn were at Jennings a few years back running some SMOKIN lap times. It is a MUCH improved front over our old "C" front (may I pass on to the afterlife without having to use that tire ever again. .. lol)

[PlayHard]

Ahhhhh,  the shade!  I remember you gave us that advise last year on the Jennings Board.  Thanks Greg! 

[drew231506]

Thanks Melka.  I'm sure it is a setup issue, it was just getting in my head so I wanted to double check the pressures I was running.  That's when I got the info on the 29.5psi.  My lap times would be from last year and I'm sure I'm wayyyy faster this year sooo....  ;-)  Havent finished an expert race yet...ill let you know after this weekend.  29s last year at nj, 34-35 vir, 17s summit...

I was just looking for some feedback with that 29.5 number.  David is a good guy, that number is just such a huge difference than what I ran last year. 

[MELK-MAN]

Thanks Melka.  I'm sure it is a setup issue, it was just getting in my head so I wanted to double check the pressures I was running.  That's when I got the info on the 29.5psi.  My lap times would be from last year and I'm sure I'm wayyyy faster this year sooo....  ;-)  Havent finished an expert race yet...ill let you know after this weekend.  29s last year at nj, 34-35 vir, 17s summit...

I was just looking for some feedback with that 29.5 number.  David is a good guy, that number is just such a huge difference than what I ran last year. 

try different stuff, just keep good notes and keep everything else consistant (don't make other big changes AND use a low front tire pis). Get back to us on it.. :)

[Scotty Ryan]

I'm with Melka and Probst on this one... Weather you consider me a fast guy or not is in the eye of the beholder - But I love my Michelins. I have zero issues with the "V" front. Like Probst said - I pretty much run the standard cold pressures (21front/31rear). We do check Hot pressures from time to time - But that is only if we are trying to change a characteristic of the tire or the setup.Our preferred method is: Set cold pressures - Heat with warmers for about 45min-1hr - Cut laps on track at a "Race Pace" - Run "Cool Down Lap" as hard as you can - Immediately after entering pit road check carcass temperature with a pyromoter. Adjust accordingly

Now our method maynot work for everyone - But this is how we do it when we are looking for answers.. Otherwise - We run standard above mentioned pressures and adjust accordingly..

Tire pressures are specific to each individual's personal  preference. But I can say that you shouldn't have to vary far from the standard 21/31 to achieve what you are looking for...

Trying to think - But I don't believe I have ever adjusted tires at .5psi increments.

Hope this helps 

[MELK-MAN]

Scotty, your fast without doubt (and faster n' me these days for sure)..  think ya meant 21rear/31front though. 

totally agree on the 1/2 psi thing, no way can most of us know the diff, or even count on the gauge to be that accurate. Keep kickin ass!