BHF to a 1 day race sechdule for the rest of the year.

[spyderchick]

The Motovid fee includes more personal instruction, while the LCR Clinic provides you with the licensing to compete. Two different animals.

FYI: Mike Casey (Motovid/Blackhawk Farms) works and partners with Rick Breuer (Learning Curves) at these events.

If you are free Saturday, definitely come out to the track and stay Saturday night for the Red Flag Fund auction. We'd love to see you there!

[Burt Munro]

Quick answer....

1.  Licensing clinics that are accepted by the major Midwest racing organizations (CCS, WERA, CRA, CMRA) require classroom instruction as well as on track sessions.  There is also a test that must be passed to show that you know the basic rules of racing.  This program is designed to help keep you from making a stupid mistake that might injure you and/or the other people on and around the track.  Motovid operates Track Days - not race clinics. (see correction below)

2.  The Learning Curves course includes the cost of your race license.  The cost of a race license varies from organization to organization and is discounted as the season progresses since it is only good until the end of the calendar year. Motovid does not and cannot include a race license because it is not a recognized Licensing clinic.
(see correction below)

3.  Many tracks and some Track Day organizations offer track days that are open only to licensed racers and/or offer discounts off of the fee for the track day to licensed racers.

4.  Having a race license can save you money off of when and where you ride track days even if you don't intend to race.

Motovid Track Days and Learning Curves Race clinics are two different things entirely even though the price may be the same.

Correction: After looking at the blackhawkfarms.com website I need to make a correction.  Motovid offers 2 types of track days - All Level Track Days and Riders Clinics.  The Riders Clinic can be used to obtain your CCS race license and differs in cost from the All Level Track Day.  Scheduling of All Level Track Days is separate from Riders Clinic dates.

[spyderchick]

What Rick (Burt Munro) said.

Oh, and the Test and Tune day prior to a race event is different than the normal track days that are held at Blackhawk during the rest of the year. <wink>

[Noidly1]

Please pardon my ignorace but ( didn't read the whole thread), are test and tune days for racers only, as opposed to track days for everyone?

[Burt Munro]

Noid,

From blackhawkfarms.com/trackdays.cfm

"Pre-Race Test Days
Blackhawk Farms offers test days prior to SCCA, CCS, and NASA events... come practice our course before you compete! Test days are open to drivers with current competition licenses only."

[gntbldr]

grr,


Racing does NOT have to be that exspensive.

I raced all of '08 on the top 5 racers' take-offs, ran them backwards so there was more rubber on the right than the left, and Sill got a 2nd overall in the MW in Unlimited Superbike on my stock '05 600rr with well over 16,000 miles on it while almost 10,000 of that was on the track. I ran pump gas, had a map in it that was a hodge podge map, borrowed used brake pads, and used every trick fellow racers (mainly X) were willing to share in order to get the best out of what simpleton stuff I had. No hotel rooms, camping is free at BFR and staying in your trailer (if you have one) is free at most places too. All you need is an air matress. Heck, I even slept in the seat of my vehicle a few times just to race and save money.

in '09 I had the same chain and sprockets from '08 and was still running others' take-offs and used brake pads. Dropped my times from 15's to 14's and did some dips into the 13's on used shit! It's not that hard for crying out loud.

Then for my dropping out weekend this last may I decided to FINALLY buy some new tires from Dustin (who thought I'd NEVER buy a new set!) and ran a Stellar weekend for my Family and friends that came to watch/ help. Actually I was fortunate to Always have my family and friends, and after '08 (my wife), to help me out before my races and after my races with anything I needed if I asked. Running new tires was sure nice after years of running take-offs but it only helped me drop another second and stay in the 13's while still playing it safe.

On the track I have only crashed twice. In '07 and from my own stupidity. That's twice since '04 which is the first time I set rubber on the track. I'm a conservative rider/racer. And all that would like to join the Racing part of the whole shindig should acknowledge that.

Racing is NOT dangerous unless you put yourself into them situations because of your ego. same goes for trackdays too. As Kenny Rogers said in one of his songs,,, you have to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when to run.
Top 5 guys are runners. They run for the money like it's no tomorrow. But I bet you a million dollars, that I'll never have, that I got the same satisfaction they got when I went out and battled it up with my 'like' competitors race in and race out.
it doesn't matter what place you start out in, race during, or end up in. When you dice it up and it's safe and courteous it's the Most fun you'll EVER have on the track!

I have dozens and dozens of pictures of fellow racers and I giving each other high fives on the cool down laps because we fought it out and it was MORE than worth the money put into it.



But.... then there comes a time Life out side if racing.
I am now not racing for many many reasons. Safety, money, risk are not any of them.
The past 4 years I have spent almost ALL of my vacation time going to the track. Whether it be for trackdays, video biking/instructing/cr'ing days, or racing days. makes no difference. I LOVE the track but i also love life and VACATIONS. Vacations with the wife and kids. Vacations exploring the outdoors. Vacations going places I've never been before with the woman I love. So on and so forth.

I can't do them both. At least not right now.  Someday there will may be a happy medium between spending time/ money/ and vacation time at the track vs. using time/ money/ and vacation time going on vacations but for now it's "time out" for the track.

It really sucks seeing what's coming around after the last weekend I raced in May because that weekend i had the Time of my Racing life and the turnout that weekend was Awesome compared to some of the others!
I just hope that all of you die hards keep on keeping on so that when I am able to come back for the onsies and twosies there will still be a place to come back to!
A place I used to call home.

[Noidly1]

Noid,

From blackhawkfarms.com/trackdays.cfm

"Pre-Race Test Days
Blackhawk Farms offers test days prior to SCCA, CCS, and NASA events... come practice our course before you compete! Test days are open to drivers with current competition licenses only."

So it's a yes, as like all practice days B4 a race day at most tracks unlike Gateway. Ok...

[riderupred]

In March a bird shit on my shoulder and warned me of this.....  in May at the races this little birdie gave me two middle fingers.......so right back at you birdie!!

Jim is done racing... Retired.... Fin....And after the way we were treated at the track in May, I have no desire to even do so much as trackdays at BFR and do not blame Jim one bit for not wanting to race there anymore....

so for the birdie...

I was asked by a number of racers, racers that wont race Midwest safety crew staffed races because they no longer feel safe, to head up a new safety crew organization that offers better trained safety crew at no charge to the track or race organization. I had the financial backing to boot. I finally agreed to do it and within 15 minutes of agreeing to form this new organization, I got a phone call telling me to vacate the idea immediately or I will be banned from CCS events, BFR and RA.  The caller also laughed at the idea of anybody doing anything with CCS... "quote.... the fact that you plan to do anything with CCS is a joke considering they are not going to be around much longer, be suprised if they make it to the 2011 season" unquote... I quickly vacated the idea for the sake of my husband. As he was being punished for my words. The entire thread in which this all took place was moved out of the public eye, the next day I was informed by the site owner that BFR/Motovid requested access to the private section of the site or face the backlash.  BFR is now has full access to this site, and the thread in mentioned above... locked

In March I was personally informed that there  is a 90% chance that there will be no CCS at BFR in 2011.... although there is a chance that there will still be racing at BFR, take a wild guess at the name of the organization that will be heading this up...

so CCS is losing racers for a couple reasons IMO...

1.) because of trackdays...... it is cheaper
2.) some racers do not feel safe out there anymore
3.) I hate to say this, ( I luv you Jason, Brian, Dan and Ron.. and other top guys) BUT, you guys really pushed out alot of people... You have alot of money to race, alot of money into your bikes, and your FAST! It is no fun to enter a race you know you don't have a chance in hell of winning or even getting a podium in... You guys have been on top for a long time... While new blood would be AM some day they are going to be EX.  what is the point of paying all that money to race if you can't come close to being competitive because you have an older stock bike and make 30K a year.

Brian, Jason, Dan......Sorry... ( please do not be offended)  you guys pulling out might actually help CCS because that means other people have a chance to win for once in those 10 races. You guys need the conting money to race, what do you think the rest of the racers need to race?  There really is no interest in spending $85.00 to get your ass handed to you...

The economy tanked.... the poor man can't win.... so don't race.... do trackdays and save a ton of money to get nothing more then track time......  

You guys staying in club racing so long really has contributed to people doing  trackdays ( same experience, lower price, no humiliation of getting lapped) and not racing..

You guys have the speed, talent and the money to go AMA and leave club racing... so why do you stay? Easy wins? Cheaper?

What about recruiting riders for your selves and teaching a noobie to be fast like you guys. pay for half or maybe even a full weekend for them? Ya know... be the sponsor instead of looking for the sponsor?

I love watching you fast guys race don't get me wrong. so no offense to you guys or anything.... I am just giving you my 2 cents as a spectator

[Burt Munro]

Freedom of speech is a wonderful thing about our country.

Unfortunately, along with that comes the liability of having to read some articles that are completely out of touch with the real world.

I'm sorry.

[riderupred]

unfortunately proof does make it the real world Burt.  And there is plenty of it 

I do agree though that there is no one specific reason for the short comings.... It is more a combination of the right wrong issues.  and everybody needs to do things to improve the status of CCS everywhere. New  crowd of people, new organization personnel, new safety crew, new racers,new track personnel..... the whole scene needs change.

truth is if things do not change there is not going to be CCS racing in our area. If we want to keep it, we need to do what ever it takes to make it happen. And it is sad that the people who are very prominent  and respected figures at BFR  trackdays are the ones most eager to see CCS go.


and why is CCS not paying for podiums?  Jim is still waiting on his winnings from May and Jason to the best of my knowledge is still waiting on his winnings from July. 

And a huge thank you to Claudia for getting Jim the correct award at the end of the race weekend in May.  They gave Jim the wrong award for the TC and all the pictures taken by CCS/ASRA and GRON4 are also with the wrong award.

[spyderchick]

Jen, I'm going to respectfully disagree with you about the fast riders staying in racing causes others to not compete. I never expected to compete with the fast guys when I was racing, rather, I was out there for the thrill of competition, and would make sure that when I did get lapped, I was not a hazard. Then I would go and talk to the experts and ask them to evaluate what they saw out there in race conditions, what I could improve upon concerning my skills, and if I needed something for my bike, they would help on a moment's notice.

Rhiannon started a short time after I did, and learned to respect the experts until eventually she became one, then went on to ride the national series in both ASRA and WERA, (even got a few podium finishes) and earned her AMA license. Competition is about competing, not always about winning. It depends on where you fall within the spectrum.

For Brian, Dan, Jason, et al, they aren't going to get a nationally sponsored ride, so they compete where they can, at the club level. They're good at it because they put everything into it. Brian has the money to do it, sure, but he's also reasonable about what he throws at it. Dan and Jason don't have Brian's checkbook, so they make it work in other ways, through networking, promoting themselves and borrowing or begging. Fortunately, they were all blessed with skill and determination. I don't understand why you think they should not compete. Where would they go? It's really taxing to campaign an entire year in the AMA, so they do selected events, as do a good number of the regional fast guys. A regional club series is ideal for their needs.

Each year I hear that the fast guys shouldn't cherry pick, and that the slow guys shouldn't be out there. Pick any reason you wish to make these arguments. I say unless they are unsafe, club racing is exactly where they belong. If you eliminate the top tier of racers, you eliminate some damn good competition for no reason, if you eliminate the back-markers, you eliminate the future of the sport. So how are the guys in the middle going to be able to support that portion of the money and potential profit that any club series would reasonably expect to enjoy?

Robert Jensen got out of racing because he said there wasn't any money to be made. He should know, he was the master at working the circuits to be able to compete and make a living at it. That means that the top guys this season aren't making anything back at racing. So why do they do it? For glory? Maybe. For the chicks? I think most of them are already hooked up. So it has to be for the love of the sport.

As far as contingency, it's thin everywhere. It will take a few more years to get it back to where it was in the past. Let's face it, we're in a different economy. Is racing in jeopardy? Most likely not. Is it at a low point? Yes. We need a new business model. As I've said before, trackdays are not going away, so there needs to be a new strategy for moving riders into the fold of the race community. It will happen. Most racers only compete for 2-3 years, and some come back after a hiatus as they miss it. Racing offers some unique experiences that cannot be captured by a track day. That should be the focus of bringing new riders into the sport.

I'm sorry to hear Jim is done. Perhaps in the future he will come back. We wish him the best.

[f3racer]

It is no fun to enter a race you know you don't have a chance in hell of winning or even getting a podium in... You guys have been on top for a long time... While new blood would be AM some day they are going to be EX.  what is the point of paying all that money to race if you can't come close to being competitive because you have an older stock bike and make 30K a year.

 There really is no interest in spending $85.00 to get your ass handed to you...


teaching a noobie to be fast like you guys.

i may be mildly out of line because this was my 1st race weekend but i had a damn blast and didnt even come close to winning a race.

jason has been awesome with helping me get to me races, and this weekend brian damn near told me how enter and exit every corner at gateway.

my only issues i had this weekend was the heat on saturday and some control rider trying to yell at me because she thought i was someone else.