BHF Amateur MW Supersport - Turn 2 Crash??

[Dori Ninja]

hey, i was the other one involved in the turn 2 crash, im # 444 we were all goin in to the turn and the 4 in front of me were all fanning out so i was trying to avoid them and fall back into place behind them so i didnt get run off the track and next thing i know im on the ground sliding to the air fence.....sooooo glad for those! sorry to hear about ur injuries dude, and hope u heal soon!!! i ended up with just a lot of pain in my shoulder though...but believe everything is still intact! my bike took a real beating though....not sure if itll be up for daytona, but definitely  great-full for our lives!!!

id review the incident but my  cam is somewhere in the vicinity of turn 2.,....

[hernan52]

Charles,
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a lot of pain and your MW bike took a real beating. I did not see the Turn 2 incident.  I don't know what cause it.

I hope you don't take offense for my words but as a guy double your age I feel compelled to share with you my thoughts.

We all fall (look at our leathers).  We all make mistakes and we all push our limits. However, we owe it to ourselves and our fellow racers to ride within our skill level. I was following you in the GTL race.  You were consistently missing every apex to the point that I decided to slow down and wait for you to crash or run off the track (which you did and managed to make it back in turn 6).
During the Thunderbike race, while the lead group was breaking for Turn 7, you shot by us ON THE GRASS and ended in the bushes.
Two races..... two DNF.  Trust me, we all noticed........

My point: remember that we are here to have fun, continue racing but do it within your limits. You owe it to yourself and to your fellow racers.

Yes, I wish I could keep up with Ed Key, but I can't without most likely hurting myself or worse, someone else.
I hope that you reflect during the winter and come back a better rider and competitor.
Hernan

[Dori Ninja]

Charles,
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a lot of pain and your MW bike took a real beating. I did not see the Turn 2 incident.  I don't know what cause it.

I hope you don't take offense for my words but as a guy double your age I feel compelled to share with you my thoughts.

We all fall (look at our leathers).  We all make mistakes and we all push our limits. However, we owe it to ourselves and our fellow racers to ride within our skill level. I was following you in the GTL race.  You were consistently missing every apex to the point that I decided to slow down and wait for you to crash or run off the track (which you did in turn 6).
During the Thunderbike race, while the lead group was breaking for Turn 7, you shot by us ON THE GRASS and ended in the bushes.
Two races..... two DNF.  Trust me, we all noticed........

My point: remember that we are here to have fun, continue racing but do it within your limits. You owe it to yourself and to your fellow racers.

Yes, I wish I could keep up with Ed Key, but I can't without most likely hurting myself or worse, someone else.
I hope that you reflect during the winter and come back a better rider and competitor.
Hernan

i dont know how u could see me missing apexes as all the spectators i was conversing with told me that the nearest competitor was WAY behind me in GTL and i did not go off in turn six in GTL the nut for my front sproket some how backed off and my sprocket came off the splines exiting turn 3. it would jump on and off the splines enough for me to get the hell out of the way and bring it off the access road at turn 5 and to my pit.

in turn 7 i was going to pas u on the outside and u decided u were gunna run wide which i havent seen u do before but u urself ended up pulling on the 2 infront of u casueing u to do so, so that was jsut luck of the draw.

im not gunna sit here and pussy foot around the track though, i know what ur saying, but this is racing, its a competition and i want to progress at the greatest rate i can. i am ridding the same as i do in the clinics i have been riding and all they have been telling me to do is "go-faster" whether it be brake later, accelerate sooner, or whatever, so unless the guys running the wision sports clinics, and rick brewer, are unqualified for there positions i think u should recognize that everyone has a different riding style and just because i dont turn the same way u do doesnt mean i am wrong.

and dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to use an aggressive tone with this reply, but understand, yes we all would like to be as fast as ed key, and frankly i wont be, i will be FASTER!! that is my mental state on the track, it will remain the same until i am and i have another competitor out there kicking my ass that i have to chase down. now im not saying im gunna be that fast, no matter how many ppl i have to endager. but i will be pushing myself so that i can progress, if i just wanted to go fast on a track id do trackdays, but i want to go fast and win on the track, therefore i race. idk what ur goals are with racing, im pretty sure there not the same as mine, but i am looking for this to take me somewhere, its the only thing im good at and im gunna exploit it to the fullest, i will continue to ride and a competitive manor but i am not an asshole looking to take u out, nor anyone for that manor.

again, im not trying to attack u here just explaining my pov on my riding!

and sorry for going off topic!

[benprobst]

i dont know how u could see me missing apexes as all the spectators i was conversing with told me that the nearest competitor was WAY behind me in GTL and i did not go off in turn six in GTL the nut for my front sproket some how backed off and my sprocket came off the splines exiting turn 3. it would jump on and off the splines enough for me to get the hell out of the way and bring it off the access road at turn 5 and to my pit.

in turn 7 i was going to pas u on the outside and u decided u were gunna run wide which i havent seen u do before but u urself ended up pulling on the 2 infront of u casueing u to do so, so that was jsut luck of the draw.

im not gunna sit here and pussy foot around the track though, i know what ur saying, but this is racing, its a competition and i want to progress at the greatest rate i can. i am ridding the same as i do in the clinics i have been riding and all they have been telling me to do is "go-faster" whether it be brake later, accelerate sooner, or whatever, so unless the guys running the wision sports clinics, and rick brewer, are unqualified for there positions i think u should recognize that everyone has a different riding style and just because i dont turn the same way u do doesnt mean i am wrong.

and dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to use an aggressive tone with this reply, but understand, yes we all would like to be as fast as ed key, and frankly i wont be, i will be FASTER!! that is my mental state on the track, it will remain the same until i am and i have another competitor out there kicking my ass that i have to chase down. now im not saying im gunna be that fast, no matter how many ppl i have to endager. but i will be pushing myself so that i can progress, if i just wanted to go fast on a track id do trackdays, but i want to go fast and win on the track, therefore i race. idk what ur goals are with racing, im pretty sure there not the same as mine, but i am looking for this to take me somewhere, its the only thing im good at and im gunna exploit it to the fullest, i will continue to ride and a competitive manor but i am not an asshole looking to take u out, nor anyone for that manor.

again, im not trying to attack u here just explaining my pov on my riding!

and sorry for going off topic!

Hernan was directly behind you almost the entire GTL race. I too was waiting for you to crash the whole weekend after watching you in practice and then in races. It was also not surprising to see you careening off the track going into 7, a friend of mine watched the incident and was cringing lap after lap as you went into the corner waiting for it to finally bite you, he said you looked compeletly out of control as you ran off the track. The same friend was watching in T1 when you hammered Alex, I'm all about going places with racing, but when half of the paddock is talking about how dangerous you were being its time to take it into account, I know I had to go through something similar as I moved to the front of the LW AM pack in my first year. Its a learning process, and now is a good time to learn to listen to what others see and think about your riding. Ohh and your post gave me a head ache!!!

[Scott H]

I was in the race,  but lucky, or early with registration, enough to be ahead of the crash. There was a knee puck on the track, outside of the line. From reading about the incident I don't think it had anything to do with the crash.
I'm new to CCS, and don't know the guys invloved ,I hope everyone heals up fully and quickly. T2 at BHF is one of those don't crash here corners, and I'm not sure how you back off then just end up sliding across the track. This is club racing, and most of us have jobs to go to on Monday. I hope 444 rider settles down next year, and the officials keep and eye to make sure he has.

Anyway, heal up guys. It was great racing with everyone last weekend!

Scott Holmes
AM #313

[Jan]

id review the incident but my  cam is somewhere in the vicinity of turn 2.,....

I can ask Tom and/or look for the camera if you like.

[Farmboy]

i dont know how u could see me missing apexes as all the spectators i was conversing with told me that the nearest competitor was WAY behind me in GTL and i did not go off in turn six in GTL the nut for my front sproket some how backed off and my sprocket came off the splines exiting turn 3. it would jump on and off the splines enough for me to get the hell out of the way and bring it off the access road at turn 5 and to my pit.

in turn 7 i was going to pas u on the outside and u decided u were gunna run wide which i havent seen u do before but u urself ended up pulling on the 2 infront of u casueing u to do so, so that was jsut luck of the draw.

im not gunna sit here and pussy foot around the track though, i know what ur saying, but this is racing, its a competition and i want to progress at the greatest rate i can. i am ridding the same as i do in the clinics i have been riding and all they have been telling me to do is "go-faster" whether it be brake later, accelerate sooner, or whatever, so unless the guys running the wision sports clinics, and rick brewer, are unqualified for there positions i think u should recognize that everyone has a different riding style and just because i dont turn the same way u do doesnt mean i am wrong.

and dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to use an aggressive tone with this reply, but understand, yes we all would like to be as fast as ed key, and frankly i wont be, i will be FASTER!! that is my mental state on the track, it will remain the same until i am and i have another competitor out there kicking my ass that i have to chase down. now im not saying im gunna be that fast, no matter how many ppl i have to endager. but i will be pushing myself so that i can progress, if i just wanted to go fast on a track id do trackdays, but i want to go fast and win on the track, therefore i race. idk what ur goals are with racing, im pretty sure there not the same as mine, but i am looking for this to take me somewhere, its the only thing im good at and im gunna exploit it to the fullest, i will continue to ride and a competitive manor but i am not an asshole looking to take u out, nor anyone for that manor.

again, im not trying to attack u here just explaining my pov on my riding!

and sorry for going off topic!

Wow. I'm tempted to break down your post and offer a direct rebuttal to several (most) of your points, but that would take way too long, and i don't think it would matter anyway. I will, however, offer up a few observations..

I can tell you Hernan's goals as he is a close friend and I  know him quite well; moreover, I share those same goals. In a nutshell, we race to have fun, we race as  competitively as we safely can, and, at the end of the day, we hope to go home in one piece. This isn't the case 100% of the time, but we aren't too far off, either.

Have you heard the expression "To finish first, first you must finish"? Mechanical DNF in the GT aside, you had 3 crashes in your last 2 BHF events (that I'm aware of). Regardless of whether or not you share the same goals as us, (and I don't think you do; I think you have higher aspirations, which is fine), you'll realize them much more quickly if you throttle back and ride within your limits. Maybe you look good to spectators, and maybe you look good while riding at 9/10ths pace in the rider clinic, but when you're in practice, or the races, you look like you're on the ragged edge. Multiple riders, in multiple classes, have observed this, repeatedly, and commented on it at length without being prompted to do so. Does this tell you anything?

Maybe you will beat Ed someday, but at this rate, I wouldn't count on it. Do you know how many (far more talented) riders have tried and failed? You aren't going to improve much at this rate; on the contrary, you're very likely to either hurt yourself or someone else very badly (this may already be the case, but more on that in a bit). Improvement on the track doesn't come in huge chunks, but instead, gradually and in small increments.

Just because you've briefly led, and run near the front, in recent races doesn't mean you've made huge improvements, Charles. Rather, it's because :

a.) To be brutally honest, we're afraid of racing close to you, so we try to stay away from you on the start and instead pass you safely a bit later in the race.

b.) With just a few races left, some of us who have been racing for, and leading, championships all year aren't willing to throw away a whole season worth of effort by possibly crashing out either directly or indirectly because of your actions.

Thus, especially this past weekend, we just let you go. And why not? You weren't a threat to us in points, so why would we risk everything racing you? So, I'm sorry, but don't kid yourself. I'm glad you enjoy the sport, and I'm glad you're good at it (and I DO think you have talent, but talent and skill are not the same thing), and I'll even help you in any way I can if you'd like, but I think a reality (and ego) check is in order. You have a long way to go, and it'd be nice if you had a little more consideration for your fellow riders while you go there.

Which brings me to my final, and most important, point. Unfortunately, the immediate suspicion at the track was that you had taken Alex out. More unfortunately, it's looking increasingly likely that this was the case.  Of course, it may turn out that this is not true, that you share no blame whatsoever, or, we may never actually know what happened. On the one hand, if you weren't at fault, that totally sucks. On the other hand, you've put yourself here with your erratic riding.

Whatever. What I find hugely disturbing is that when I spoke to you at the track this weekend, and now, on here, you don't seem willing to even consider the possibility that you are responsible for this crash, and moreover, you haven't expressed any concern or remorse at the mere possibility. Instead, you posit that "you're racing, and pushing yourself to improve", as if that justifies everything. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. You have every right to compete, and improve, and have fun, but you also have a huge responsibility when you go out on a green track with other riders, namely, to ride in a safe and controlled manner. Regardless of whether or not you actually took Alex out, you aren't currently riding in anything resembling a safe and controlled manner. (And if it turns out you did, you owe him the hugest apology. He is one of the nicest and most considerate people I've ever met, on or off the track.)

I'm very sorry to say this, but when I saw in your initial post that you're planning on going to Daytona, my first reaction was one of mild terror. Daytona is scary as hell to begin with, and I don't really relish the possibility of riding there with you, not only because of your riding, but more so because of your seemingly inconsiderate attitude towards other racers. In fact, I hate to say this, but I feel I have to. I hope you think about it, and I hope it matters. You aren't going to do yourself, or anyone else, any favors if you continue on in the same way.

[RuschRacing23]

You remind me of myself last year. I was an amatuer who my first race out did 1:25's and battled for 13th place. I now have won many expert races in my 2nd year of racing and have had the chance to battle Ed Key multiple times. The only reason this was possible is because when i hit this situation you are in now i chose to take the advice of my competitors. You are very talented and im not taking away any of that but multiple times passing you in practice and lapping you in races ive had to back off because you ride inconsistantly. I did the same thing. I rode inconsistantly and scared some competitors. I somehow kept the bike up all those times but i was headed down the crashfest road. Bro. Hear me out. You must be smooth to be fast. Ask anyone who has ever ridden with me. They will tell you hands down I am the smoothest ridder out there other than Ed Key. Why? Because at this moment I chose to listen. Be coachable and understand "Yes I race for success, but not everyone does." Take this advice. Use it to your advantage. IT WILL ONLY HELP. I promise that. Funny story. It was Jim and Hernan telling me this last year too..................


God Bless,
      Eddie

[Dori Ninja]

ok im not sayin that i dont care about anyone else, and i am not ignoring any of u i am taking in all i can, and what u say here, sorry if i made u think i was telling u all to fug off thats not the case, but when i have guys who have been coaching and instructing for quite sometime, i do find it hard to believe that all of a sudden this is all coming at me in one day. because i decide to not run into the person in front of me and get rear ended on the track (defenatly not placing blame on the other competitor there!!!) that all of a sudden im getting attacked from every different angle!! i know i have a lot to learn, but until this one incident there has been no talk of me being soo out of control and such. at mid ohio, a track i have NEVER been to in my life battling it out for first (ending up second) the guy i was battling had nothing to say but good things, along with everyone else i have been around (up until now) so yeah, really would have been good to know sooner rather than later, when u have sesoned veterans, and faster riders telling u how good u are doing (hell some of u now posting against me have told me im doing great out there and having a good race when we battle) all season long, its extremly confusing for it to change in one day.....so now its got me not wanting to listen to u who are telling me 2 dif things and fli[ floping back and forth and focus on the info from the consistant coaches.....


and to the post about finding my cam in the turn 2 area that would be extremly apreciative if u could see if it could be located and possibly returned, i will pay any shipping charges associated!!!!!! but at least i would like the vids/memory cards at the very least!!!

[R1Racer99]

This might be a dumb question, but the only races I see a #444 in were lightweight classes. Were you on a 600 for the MW race or an SV?

I usually pre-register but didn't last weekend and had to start at the back all day including this race. I've had to do this a couple times this year and it's scary. I can't wait to go expert because there are riders in the middle of an amateur pack that ride too agressively and I'm sick of close calls on the first lap because of erratic riding. If your laptimes aren't good enough to run at the front, just trying hard isn't going to get you there.

Thankfully, all of the amateurs that I've diced with at the front this year have been very clean and capable riders, I had alot of fun and never felt in danger while going back and forth with them. Thanks to you guys.

Nick McCoy #86

[tzracer]

Dori, some advice from someone who raced for 29 years (18 years roadracing).

DO NOT try to go fast. It does not work. Try to be smooth. Speed will come naturally. You cannot push things and make it happen faster.

Oh, please write using complete words (such as you) and avoid the run on sentences. It makes your posts difficult (and annoying) to read.

[Greeny]

Heal up quick, bro!  Turn 2 can get pretty nasty at the start of those AM MW races. 
It was a pleasure racing with you, Nick.  Too bad you're not gonna be around next year to keep me honest ;)

Jordan #811