Any news/update on the riders that were involved in the opening lap crash in turn 2 of the amateur MW supersport race this past Sunday at BHF?? I had a ringside seat and it looked fairly nasty...I hope everyone involved is OK. Thank goodness those air fences are in place!
Tad
CCS Amateur #818
Was that on the outlap? Our race,the one before that,a puck flew off someone,landed towards the outside of two,just off line,but there.I was watching that sucker the whole time,making sure I stayed inside of it.I tried to kick it off on our cool down lap but I missed it.I pointed to the corner worker towards it,I figured they would have seen and picked it up,I hope that had nothing to do with it.Track was down for a while...I wonder how they are.
Wasn't on outlap but first lap of race.
Hope everyone is ok.
Anyone have more info on what happened? I was involved and am hurt very badly, bruised/broken ribs/hand/concussion.
I was turned in and on the gas and saw a 144 or 411 bike come at me. I know who it was but not sure what caused him to slide into me. Anyone know what happened?
Thank God for my team mates, the best ever, and great friends like Farmboy and Hernan, thank you for packing my stuff! You guys are like family to me, I couldn't imagine racing without yall there, thanks for all your help!!
Alex,
Jay and all the guys were very concerned about you.
Rest and take care of yourself.
I wish you a prompt recovery.
Best
Hernan
Alex,
i'm so sorry to hear that! you looked great out there on Saturday.
Heal fast!!!
t.
Alex,
Glad to see you on here, especially considering the extent of your injuries. I'm sorry to hear you're hurt so badly, but I'm happy it's not worse.
I spoke to the other racer who was involved; I can relate what he told me if you give me a call (see below).
Incidentally, I didn't help pack up your stuff, so I can't take credit for that, but if you need anything at all now or in the future, just call me @ (708)268-2345.
Take care, heal up, and I look forward to hearing from you.
Heal quickly bro...hope you feel better.
Happy to hear you typing, Alex.
Broken bones? Get this stuff...
http://www.seacoastvitamins.com/product_info.php?products_id=803
Case and point, you guys are great peeps!
SuperD- I was searching your old posts for that site, thanks! :-)
Alex
Sorry to hear about you falling off....Heal up soon Alex!
Alex,
turn 2 crash ... not good.
Best wishes for quick recovery!
Andrew
PS: congrats on your Sat win !
hey, i was the other one involved in the turn 2 crash, im # 444 we were all goin in to the turn and the 4 in front of me were all fanning out so i was trying to avoid them and fall back into place behind them so i didnt get run off the track and next thing i know im on the ground sliding to the air fence.....sooooo glad for those! sorry to hear about ur injuries dude, and hope u heal soon!!! i ended up with just a lot of pain in my shoulder though...but believe everything is still intact! my bike took a real beating though....not sure if itll be up for daytona, but definitely great-full for our lives!!!
id review the incident but my cam is somewhere in the vicinity of turn 2.,....
Charles,
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a lot of pain and your MW bike took a real beating. I did not see the Turn 2 incident. I don't know what cause it.
I hope you don't take offense for my words but as a guy double your age I feel compelled to share with you my thoughts.
We all fall (look at our leathers). We all make mistakes and we all push our limits. However, we owe it to ourselves and our fellow racers to ride within our skill level. I was following you in the GTL race. You were consistently missing every apex to the point that I decided to slow down and wait for you to crash or run off the track (which you did and managed to make it back in turn 6).
During the Thunderbike race, while the lead group was breaking for Turn 7, you shot by us ON THE GRASS and ended in the bushes.
Two races..... two DNF. Trust me, we all noticed........
My point: remember that we are here to have fun, continue racing but do it within your limits. You owe it to yourself and to your fellow racers.
Yes, I wish I could keep up with Ed Key, but I can't without most likely hurting myself or worse, someone else.
I hope that you reflect during the winter and come back a better rider and competitor.
Hernan
Quote from: hernan52 on September 30, 2009, 09:57:33 AM
Charles,
I'm sorry to hear that you are in a lot of pain and your MW bike took a real beating. I did not see the Turn 2 incident. I don't know what cause it.
I hope you don't take offense for my words but as a guy double your age I feel compelled to share with you my thoughts.
We all fall (look at our leathers). We all make mistakes and we all push our limits. However, we owe it to ourselves and our fellow racers to ride within our skill level. I was following you in the GTL race. You were consistently missing every apex to the point that I decided to slow down and wait for you to crash or run off the track (which you did in turn 6).
During the Thunderbike race, while the lead group was breaking for Turn 7, you shot by us ON THE GRASS and ended in the bushes.
Two races..... two DNF. Trust me, we all noticed........
My point: remember that we are here to have fun, continue racing but do it within your limits. You owe it to yourself and to your fellow racers.
Yes, I wish I could keep up with Ed Key, but I can't without most likely hurting myself or worse, someone else.
I hope that you reflect during the winter and come back a better rider and competitor.
Hernan
i dont know how u could see me missing apexes as all the spectators i was conversing with told me that the nearest competitor was WAY behind me in GTL and i did not go off in turn six in GTL the nut for my front sproket some how backed off and my sprocket came off the splines exiting turn 3. it would jump on and off the splines enough for me to get the hell out of the way and bring it off the access road at turn 5 and to my pit.
in turn 7 i was going to pas u on the outside and u decided u were gunna run wide which i havent seen u do before but u urself ended up pulling on the 2 infront of u casueing u to do so, so that was jsut luck of the draw.
im not gunna sit here and pussy foot around the track though, i know what ur saying, but this is racing, its a competition and i want to progress at the greatest rate i can. i am ridding the same as i do in the clinics i have been riding and all they have been telling me to do is "go-faster" whether it be brake later, accelerate sooner, or whatever, so unless the guys running the wision sports clinics, and rick brewer, are unqualified for there positions i think u should recognize that everyone has a different riding style and just because i dont turn the same way u do doesnt mean i am wrong.
and dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to use an aggressive tone with this reply, but understand, yes we all would like to be as fast as ed key, and frankly i wont be, i will be FASTER!! that is my mental state on the track, it will remain the same until i am and i have another competitor out there kicking my ass that i have to chase down. now im not saying im gunna be that fast, no matter how many ppl i have to endager. but i will be pushing myself so that i can progress, if i just wanted to go fast on a track id do trackdays, but i want to go fast and win on the track, therefore i race. idk what ur goals are with racing, im pretty sure there not the same as mine, but i am looking for this to take me somewhere, its the only thing im good at and im gunna exploit it to the fullest, i will continue to ride and a competitive manor but i am not an asshole looking to take u out, nor anyone for that manor.
again, im not trying to attack u here just explaining my pov on my riding!
and sorry for going off topic!
Quote from: Dori Ninja on September 30, 2009, 02:59:10 PM
i dont know how u could see me missing apexes as all the spectators i was conversing with told me that the nearest competitor was WAY behind me in GTL and i did not go off in turn six in GTL the nut for my front sproket some how backed off and my sprocket came off the splines exiting turn 3. it would jump on and off the splines enough for me to get the hell out of the way and bring it off the access road at turn 5 and to my pit.
in turn 7 i was going to pas u on the outside and u decided u were gunna run wide which i havent seen u do before but u urself ended up pulling on the 2 infront of u casueing u to do so, so that was jsut luck of the draw.
im not gunna sit here and pussy foot around the track though, i know what ur saying, but this is racing, its a competition and i want to progress at the greatest rate i can. i am ridding the same as i do in the clinics i have been riding and all they have been telling me to do is "go-faster" whether it be brake later, accelerate sooner, or whatever, so unless the guys running the wision sports clinics, and rick brewer, are unqualified for there positions i think u should recognize that everyone has a different riding style and just because i dont turn the same way u do doesnt mean i am wrong.
and dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to use an aggressive tone with this reply, but understand, yes we all would like to be as fast as ed key, and frankly i wont be, i will be FASTER!! that is my mental state on the track, it will remain the same until i am and i have another competitor out there kicking my ass that i have to chase down. now im not saying im gunna be that fast, no matter how many ppl i have to endager. but i will be pushing myself so that i can progress, if i just wanted to go fast on a track id do trackdays, but i want to go fast and win on the track, therefore i race. idk what ur goals are with racing, im pretty sure there not the same as mine, but i am looking for this to take me somewhere, its the only thing im good at and im gunna exploit it to the fullest, i will continue to ride and a competitive manor but i am not an asshole looking to take u out, nor anyone for that manor.
again, im not trying to attack u here just explaining my pov on my riding!
and sorry for going off topic!
Hernan was directly behind you almost the entire GTL race. I too was waiting for you to crash the whole weekend after watching you in practice and then in races. It was also not surprising to see you careening off the track going into 7, a friend of mine watched the incident and was cringing lap after lap as you went into the corner waiting for it to finally bite you, he said you looked compeletly out of control as you ran off the track. The same friend was watching in T1 when you hammered Alex, I'm all about going places with racing, but when half of the paddock is talking about how dangerous you were being its time to take it into account, I know I had to go through something similar as I moved to the front of the LW AM pack in my first year. Its a learning process, and now is a good time to learn to listen to what others see and think about your riding. Ohh and your post gave me a head ache!!!
I was in the race, but lucky, or early with registration, enough to be ahead of the crash. There was a knee puck on the track, outside of the line. From reading about the incident I don't think it had anything to do with the crash.
I'm new to CCS, and don't know the guys invloved ,I hope everyone heals up fully and quickly. T2 at BHF is one of those don't crash here corners, and I'm not sure how you back off then just end up sliding across the track. This is club racing, and most of us have jobs to go to on Monday. I hope 444 rider settles down next year, and the officials keep and eye to make sure he has.
Anyway, heal up guys. It was great racing with everyone last weekend! :cheers:
Scott Holmes
AM #313
Quote from: Dori Ninja on September 30, 2009, 01:04:52 AM
id review the incident but my cam is somewhere in the vicinity of turn 2.,....
I can ask Tom and/or look for the camera if you like.
Quote from: Dori Ninja on September 30, 2009, 02:59:10 PM
i dont know how u could see me missing apexes as all the spectators i was conversing with told me that the nearest competitor was WAY behind me in GTL and i did not go off in turn six in GTL the nut for my front sproket some how backed off and my sprocket came off the splines exiting turn 3. it would jump on and off the splines enough for me to get the hell out of the way and bring it off the access road at turn 5 and to my pit.
in turn 7 i was going to pas u on the outside and u decided u were gunna run wide which i havent seen u do before but u urself ended up pulling on the 2 infront of u casueing u to do so, so that was jsut luck of the draw.
im not gunna sit here and pussy foot around the track though, i know what ur saying, but this is racing, its a competition and i want to progress at the greatest rate i can. i am ridding the same as i do in the clinics i have been riding and all they have been telling me to do is "go-faster" whether it be brake later, accelerate sooner, or whatever, so unless the guys running the wision sports clinics, and rick brewer, are unqualified for there positions i think u should recognize that everyone has a different riding style and just because i dont turn the same way u do doesnt mean i am wrong.
and dont take this the wrong way, im not trying to use an aggressive tone with this reply, but understand, yes we all would like to be as fast as ed key, and frankly i wont be, i will be FASTER!! that is my mental state on the track, it will remain the same until i am and i have another competitor out there kicking my ass that i have to chase down. now im not saying im gunna be that fast, no matter how many ppl i have to endager. but i will be pushing myself so that i can progress, if i just wanted to go fast on a track id do trackdays, but i want to go fast and win on the track, therefore i race. idk what ur goals are with racing, im pretty sure there not the same as mine, but i am looking for this to take me somewhere, its the only thing im good at and im gunna exploit it to the fullest, i will continue to ride and a competitive manor but i am not an asshole looking to take u out, nor anyone for that manor.
again, im not trying to attack u here just explaining my pov on my riding!
and sorry for going off topic!
Wow. I'm tempted to break down your post and offer a direct rebuttal to several (most) of your points, but that would take way too long, and i don't think it would matter anyway. I will, however, offer up a few observations..
I can tell you Hernan's goals as he is a close friend and I know him quite well; moreover, I share those same goals. In a nutshell, we race to have fun, we race as competitively as we safely can, and, at the end of the day, we hope to go home in one piece. This isn't the case 100% of the time, but we aren't too far off, either.
Have you heard the expression "To finish first, first you must finish"? Mechanical DNF in the GT aside, you had 3 crashes in your last 2 BHF events (that I'm aware of). Regardless of whether or not you share the same goals as us, (and I don't think you do; I think you have higher aspirations, which is fine), you'll realize them much more quickly if you throttle back and ride within your limits. Maybe you look good to spectators, and maybe you look good while riding at 9/10ths pace in the rider clinic, but when you're in practice, or the races, you look like you're on the ragged edge. Multiple riders, in multiple classes, have observed this, repeatedly, and commented on it at length without being prompted to do so. Does this tell you anything?
Maybe you will beat Ed someday, but at this rate, I wouldn't count on it. Do you know how many (far more talented) riders have tried and failed? You aren't going to improve much at this rate; on the contrary, you're very likely to either hurt yourself or someone else very badly (this may already be the case, but more on that in a bit). Improvement on the track doesn't come in huge chunks, but instead, gradually and in small increments.
Just because you've briefly led, and run near the front, in recent races doesn't mean you've made huge improvements, Charles. Rather, it's because :
a.) To be brutally honest, we're afraid of racing close to you, so we try to stay away from you on the start and instead pass you safely a bit later in the race.
b.) With just a few races left, some of us who have been racing for, and leading, championships all year aren't willing to throw away a whole season worth of effort by possibly crashing out either directly or indirectly because of your actions.
Thus, especially this past weekend, we just let you go. And why not? You weren't a threat to us in points, so why would we risk everything racing you? So, I'm sorry, but don't kid yourself. I'm glad you enjoy the sport, and I'm glad you're good at it (and I DO think you have talent, but talent and skill are not the same thing), and I'll even help you in any way I can if you'd like, but I think a reality (and ego) check is in order. You have a long way to go, and it'd be nice if you had a little more consideration for your fellow riders while you go there.
Which brings me to my final, and most important, point. Unfortunately, the immediate suspicion at the track was that you had taken Alex out. More unfortunately, it's looking increasingly likely that this was the case. Of course, it may turn out that this is not true, that you share no blame whatsoever, or, we may never actually know what happened. On the one hand, if you weren't at fault, that totally sucks. On the other hand, you've put yourself here with your erratic riding.
Whatever. What I find hugely disturbing is that when I spoke to you at the track this weekend, and now, on here, you don't seem willing to even consider the possibility that you are responsible for this crash, and moreover, you haven't expressed any concern or remorse at the mere possibility. Instead, you posit that "you're racing, and pushing yourself to improve", as if that justifies everything. I'm sorry, but it doesn't. You have every right to compete, and improve, and have fun, but you also have a huge responsibility when you go out on a green track with other riders, namely, to ride in a safe and controlled manner. Regardless of whether or not you actually took Alex out, you aren't currently riding in anything resembling a safe and controlled manner. (And if it turns out you did, you owe him the hugest apology. He is one of the nicest and most considerate people I've ever met, on or off the track.)
I'm very sorry to say this, but when I saw in your initial post that you're planning on going to Daytona, my first reaction was one of mild terror. Daytona is scary as hell to begin with, and I don't really relish the possibility of riding there with you, not only because of your riding, but more so because of your seemingly inconsiderate attitude towards other racers. In fact, I hate to say this, but I feel I have to. I hope you think about it, and I hope it matters. You aren't going to do yourself, or anyone else, any favors if you continue on in the same way.
You remind me of myself last year. I was an amatuer who my first race out did 1:25's and battled for 13th place. I now have won many expert races in my 2nd year of racing and have had the chance to battle Ed Key multiple times. The only reason this was possible is because when i hit this situation you are in now i chose to take the advice of my competitors. You are very talented and im not taking away any of that but multiple times passing you in practice and lapping you in races ive had to back off because you ride inconsistantly. I did the same thing. I rode inconsistantly and scared some competitors. I somehow kept the bike up all those times but i was headed down the crashfest road. Bro. Hear me out. You must be smooth to be fast. Ask anyone who has ever ridden with me. They will tell you hands down I am the smoothest ridder out there other than Ed Key. Why? Because at this moment I chose to listen. Be coachable and understand "Yes I race for success, but not everyone does." Take this advice. Use it to your advantage. IT WILL ONLY HELP. I promise that. Funny story. It was Jim and Hernan telling me this last year too..................
God Bless,
Eddie
ok im not sayin that i dont care about anyone else, and i am not ignoring any of u i am taking in all i can, and what u say here, sorry if i made u think i was telling u all to fug off thats not the case, but when i have guys who have been coaching and instructing for quite sometime, i do find it hard to believe that all of a sudden this is all coming at me in one day. because i decide to not run into the person in front of me and get rear ended on the track (defenatly not placing blame on the other competitor there!!!) that all of a sudden im getting attacked from every different angle!! i know i have a lot to learn, but until this one incident there has been no talk of me being soo out of control and such. at mid ohio, a track i have NEVER been to in my life battling it out for first (ending up second) the guy i was battling had nothing to say but good things, along with everyone else i have been around (up until now) so yeah, really would have been good to know sooner rather than later, when u have sesoned veterans, and faster riders telling u how good u are doing (hell some of u now posting against me have told me im doing great out there and having a good race when we battle) all season long, its extremly confusing for it to change in one day.....so now its got me not wanting to listen to u who are telling me 2 dif things and fli[ floping back and forth and focus on the info from the consistant coaches.....
and to the post about finding my cam in the turn 2 area that would be extremly apreciative if u could see if it could be located and possibly returned, i will pay any shipping charges associated!!!!!! but at least i would like the vids/memory cards at the very least!!!
This might be a dumb question, but the only races I see a #444 in were lightweight classes. Were you on a 600 for the MW race or an SV?
I usually pre-register but didn't last weekend and had to start at the back all day including this race. I've had to do this a couple times this year and it's scary. I can't wait to go expert because there are riders in the middle of an amateur pack that ride too agressively and I'm sick of close calls on the first lap because of erratic riding. If your laptimes aren't good enough to run at the front, just trying hard isn't going to get you there.
Thankfully, all of the amateurs that I've diced with at the front this year have been very clean and capable riders, I had alot of fun and never felt in danger while going back and forth with them. Thanks to you guys.
Nick McCoy #86
Dori, some advice from someone who raced for 29 years (18 years roadracing).
DO NOT try to go fast. It does not work. Try to be smooth. Speed will come naturally. You cannot push things and make it happen faster.
Oh, please write using complete words (such as you) and avoid the run on sentences. It makes your posts difficult (and annoying) to read.
Heal up quick, bro! Turn 2 can get pretty nasty at the start of those AM MW races.
It was a pleasure racing with you, Nick. Too bad you're not gonna be around next year to keep me honest ;)
Jordan #811
Charles - your writing makes all of our heads hurt. You just may be the next Ben Spies, but if you ride like you type - I am very scared to be anywhere near you on the track! Is there any way you can do us all a favor use a proper sentence structure, full words and appropriate punctuation?
Onto the meat of the issue.
Most of us that race at the club level do it for sport and are very concerned about making it home at the end of the day. I have a wife and two young sons (a 5 year old and a 10 month old) and I have clients that depend on me showing up at my job every Monday morning. Even if you do not care about crashing and hurting yourself, please think about how your actions could affect those around you. Don't get me wrong, I accept that there is an inherent danger in this sport; however, I expect those around me to have a baseline of inteligence and self discipline which is just not apparent in your responses to this post.
You really ought to reflect on what your peers are telling you about your racing with some deep thought and respect. If nothing else, if you really want to go somewhere in this sport you need to stay healthy. There are very few things that will shorten your career more quickly than riding over your head and crashing constantly as it is only a matter of time before you get seriously hurt. I suspect that a propensity to crash once most riders hit a certain stage/speed is one of the big reasons that on average a new racer doesn't tend to last between 1.5 and 2.5 seasons. I've been doing this for 10 years now and have seen lots of fast kids come and go, very few end up staying around for very long.
Please think about what people are saying to you and how your actions could impact others on the track.
Thanks,
George
hahaha, sorry boys, wasnt aware this was an english class, ill try to keep the typing complete. i have been typing in short simple sencances for a while, and never was the greatest at this gramer thing.
and i am listening to u all, and i rarely rarely ever push myself to 100% efforts. as i was taught in LCR when you push it like that, you loose that safty buffer between controling the bike and reacting in panic mode. you also loose the ability to learn from what ur mistakes were, and i can remember just about every incident i have had on the track to this day if you are specific enough on the event.
when im out on the track every lap of ever track day/practice/race is a learning experiance to me. im not aware of whos behind me when aside from immediatly after i make a pass, and im not looking back for anything, so if i do tend to be doing differnt things each lap, its because i am. im getting a lot of info every time i get off the bike from very knowlageable people and as everyone is aware this is my first year so i am trying to find the best method for me to make it around the track. im not sure if thats what you all are refering to but again, i am NOT on the ragged edge except for a few rare occasions out of the year.
I crashed in turn 2, June 2008.. . A crash that changed my entire racing career. Pushing, trying to go faster. 43 First place finishes, 4 National championships, Overall championship MW, 4 regional championships, 4 blackhawk........ All that pressure to go faster, running 4th or 5th place in a middleweight race, pushed too hard... Party's over, Limping the rest of my life...
An old saying, "All Good things take time, but bad things come rushing at you before you can duck".
Charles, TAKE YOUR TIME!!!! All of the successful riders around you have turned thousands of hours in the track. Key, Farell, Hall, Ortega, Hernan, Berard, Probst, Scotty, Rosno, Hix, Skloss, Girard, Smith.........
Charles, my suggestion to you. Get as much seat time as possible. Go to Barber in november, Road atlanta, then do trackdays in florida all winter... You want the fast track to success, that is it, not riding over your head.....
Good Luck, HEAL UP ALEX.
Charles -
I'm trying to wean of off the pain medication, this is going to make my post very candid.
I think racers are some of the best people in the world. If you read over the last 2 pages of posts you will see the community sending their best wishes to both of us as we heal, and trying to elevate our mentality about riding and our riding style. These aren't people that are trying to keep you down, they're trying to lift you up!
If your statement is correct: "i was trying to avoid them and fall back into place behind them so i didnt get run off the track and next thing i know im on the ground sliding to the air fence", it means that contrary to your previous post about retaining crash details and learning from them, you don't know what caused you to crash.
You say that racing is the only thing you're good at, so I'd like to help you break down the variables at play as you went into turn 2 in the mw ss race. BTW, I've noticed that all the fast racers are very keen analytical thinkers, they process and act on information very efficiently and quickly; it would be to your advantage to develop this skill, and it can be applied outside of racing as well. That will give you 2 things you can be good at!
1. You ride a 07+ CBR 600RR, the BEST CBR honda has made to date. I race the 05, and my brother riders an 07 and I've ridden it many a times, and stock it's a better bike than mine.
2. Last set of tires I saw on your bike are the Michelin Power Ones, the best tires I've ever tried.
3. I noticed TSE work on your suspension, aka you have the best suspension setup possible. Scotty helped me out for 5 min and I dropped 3 sec at HPT.4
4. None of us were set up to go 2 wide through the turn, there's plenty of room especially on the opening lap when everyone's speeds are so much slower.
This tells me you have a very good bike package for a novice, and your bike should make turn 2 at the slower speeds that come with a first lap, without ANY problems as long as no critical malfunction of your equipment occurred.
You most likely low-sided the bike, since I don't think it's very likely to be so hard on the gas at the beginning of a race with people in front of you that you would high-side. What is the most probable causes of your low-side? You grabbed too much break at some point.
I'm guessing you found yourself with the top 4 AMs going through the turn faster than you normally do, you panicked and grabbed too much break.I think you didn't scale back, I think you went 100%. Did your equipment fail or did you experience another moment of "rarely rarely ever push myself to 100% efforts"?
When 1 person says it you can ignore it, when 2 say it you can take notice, but when the majority of the paddock says it, take it down a notch!
I will have surgery on Monday, I'll have scars and metal parts in my body to remember the day the rest of my life. I have to take vicodin before I get out of bed, the pain in my back is too great for me to move in the morning. Hopefully I will heal up, but I know this will come to haunt me in my older years. Accidents happen, but please try not to do this to yourself, and most importantly please don't do it to anyone else.
Alex
Sorry to hear about this Alex, heal up fast.
as i said before, i am listening to what is being said and taking all the info in, i would LOVE to spend my winters doing track days in FL, and going to barber and other places over the winter. but be as it is, i am working barley full time hours at $8.50 an hour, going to school full time, and have a military obligation which i have been scolded at for putting second to racing already. we barley are getting enough money together for daytona and my dad is already trying to work things out to assist me so i can got to some of the top riding schools in the nation.
Quote from: red900 on October 02, 2009, 11:14:49 AM
All of the successful riders around you have turned thousands of hours in the track. Key, Farell, Hall, Ortega, Hernan, Berard, Probst, Scotty, Rosno, Hix, Skloss, Girard, Smith.........
Whoa, Hey! While I'd definitely agree that I'm way more handsome than most of the guys on that list, and Hernan is more charming, I don't know that we quite belong to this group otherwise, but thanks for the flattery...
Quote from: Farmboy on October 02, 2009, 06:36:28 PM
Whoa, Hey! While I'd definitely agree that I'm way more handsome than most of the guys on that list,
Reality...its worth checking into Jim :)
This thread must be very difficult for you Charles...but keep in mind that the people that are letting you know how they feel aren't trying to beat you up or make you feel bad.
Jim, Hernan, Eddie and Ben have chimed in with constructive (yes, sometimes critical) advice but recognize that they are some of the classiest people in the paddock. I have a tremendous amount of respect for each of them and if they offered advice about my riding...I wouldn't just listen...I would take it to heart and make the necessary changes.
Good Luck in your racing career Charles...no matter how difficult your posts are to read :) I can see that your desire to be the best burns strong...don't lose that desire...just learn to control it better.
Quote from: Firecat on October 02, 2009, 11:04:07 PM
This thread must be very difficult for you Charles...but keep in mind that the people that are letting you know how they feel aren't trying to beat you up or make you feel bad.
Jim, Hernan, Eddie and Ben have chimed in with constructive (yes, sometimes critical) advice but recognize that they are some of the classiest people in the paddock. I have a tremendous amount of respect for each of them and if they offered advice about my riding...I wouldn't just listen...I would take it to heart and make the necessary changes.
Good Luck in your racing career Charles...no matter how difficult your posts are to read :) I can see that your desire to be the best burns strong...don't lose that desire...just learn to control it better.
+1000
I didnt see you race, crash truck doesnt give me much opportunity, so I didnt see if you were pushing too hard. But take it from someone who was in your shoes 22 yrs ago. I was very, very, very aggressive when I started racing (Formula Ford). First couple races I was banging wheels (I watched alot of nascar back then when it was alot better). Thats something you dont do in open wheel cars. Well after 3 races, 6 of them cornered me in the garage and just "let me know how they feel". Learned real quick that I went FASTER without bent control arms. :lmao: Didnt bump pass or rub tires the rest of the year. Not saying I didnt crash, but nothing was beyond a racing incident unlike it was my first 3 races. By the end of the season, I had earned their respect and became like family to me. If they didnt corner me, I probably wouldn't had lasted the rest of the year before getting canned.
Charles, I (and I think most others) would like to see you out racing for years to come and not one of the guys who disappear after 1-2 yrs.
Dustin: you are too kind. However, I agree with Jim: you and the others you mentioned clearly belong to a different league.
Alex: I wish you a quick recovery. My thoughts are and will be with you.
Charles: don't lose your desire to be the best but, as Brian and others said, learn to control it better.
Hernan
Keeping everything in perspective, the riders listed are leaders in there classes, you guys are leaders in your class... You ride safe, you ride fast, you define club racing... This is not the pro league, this is a paddock full of folks with full time jobs. Hernan, you and Jim load up at the end of the day, have a drink, and talk about a great weekend of great racing. That is what this is all about, at least to me...
Dustin
I have to agree, Hernan and Jim, you two definitely belong in the group of riders listed above.
Guys who possess the raw speed and talent to podium in amateur lightweight races almost always wind up with factory rides.
Don't listen to these bitches, they just want to slow you down. Rossi took out Gibernau, Pedrosa took out Hayden, Fabrizio took out Spies, etc. IT HAPPENS!
If you let the well-being of your competitors stifle your killer instinct, you'll never be able to take full advantage of the opportunities placed in your path. I don't think anyone can argue that CCS lightweight is a veritable breeding ground for top level roadracing talent.
Braun use a different color text while being sarcastic
He isn't serious?
I was hoping the 2nd I got at the ROC in LWGP was going to be the key to getting a MotoGP ride.
So what braun is saying is you have to break a few eggs to make a cake...
Quote from: red900 on October 03, 2009, 09:35:19 PM
So what braun is saying is you have to break a few eggs to make a cake...
Crashing it part of racing, however taking others with you should be avoided. A racer needs to use their head.
Quote from: JBraun on October 03, 2009, 05:36:09 PM
Guys who possess the raw speed and talent to podium in amateur lightweight races almost always wind up with factory rides.
Don't listen to these bitches, they just want to slow you down. Rossi took out Gibernau, Pedrosa took out Hayden, Fabrizio took out Spies, etc. IT HAPPENS!
If you let the well-being of your competitors stifle your killer instinct, you'll never be able to take full advantage of the opportunities placed in your path. I don't think anyone can argue that CCS lightweight is a veritable breeding ground for top level roadracing talent.
Now everyone knows why I moved into the LW class... thanks Jason... dick
Quote from: tstruyk on October 04, 2009, 12:30:44 PM
Now everyone knows why I moved into the LW class... thanks Jason... dick
Timmay, I've only met you a handful of times, but I can attest that you are definitely in the right class, here with us.. wanna join A&T?
Quote from: Farmboy on October 04, 2009, 02:05:58 PM
Timmay, I've only met you a handful of times, but I can attest that you are definitely in the right class, here with us.. wanna join A&T?
YES PLEASE ...TAKE HIM!
Jim,
You and Hernan are great guys. Are you TRYING to ruin your reputation????
Quote from: Farmboy on October 04, 2009, 02:05:58 PM
Timmay, I've only met you a handful of times, but I can attest that you are definitely in the right class, here with us.. wanna join A&T?
that depends... I hear you crazy kids sometimes race w/out gloves... Is that a requirement or more personal preference??
Quote from: backMARKr on October 04, 2009, 03:11:50 PM
YES PLEASE ...TAKE HIM!
:ahhh:
Looks like I opened up a can of worms by asking the question. I'm glad that both riders that went down in turn 2 are recovering. I'll leave the comments alone except to say one thing - it's frightening when you talk to a rider that may or may not have been at fault for a crash and have them be unable/unwilling to admit even the slightest possibility that it may have been their fault. Really? There's no possible way that it was your fault??
I had a similar thing happen to me in the GTO race on Saturday. Turn one, I was following a friend of mine (Ben, #120) towards turn one. It was evident to me that the apex was going to resemble a parking lot so I purposely backed off and said "this is a 25 minute race...let's make it through turn one." I decided to hang back, take a wide line, and then let's go. Next thing I know, Ben's bike is in front of me on the ground. With nowhere to go, I hit his bike and it's all over. Ben and I, along with our bikes, slide into the sand pit. After a couple curse words - I asked the cornerworkers, and they didn't hear me, so there was no risk of offending them :-) - I picked up the bike and rode it around to hot pit lane, bent the fairing stay back into place, and used the GTO race as practice.
After the race, I wanted to know what happened. I thought I was wide enough to avoid any apex madness, but apparently not. Talking to Ben, he said "I got hit right before the apex" and that's what took him town, and consequently, me. He was apologetic, didn't know what happened, and we were both glad that we were both OK. I approached another friend of mine who was on track to see if he knew what happened. He said "that guy hit me." OK, here we go. After talking to him for a while, he said "he left 5 feet on the inside, so I passed him." I was a bit taken back that he never admitted simply the possibility that he was at fault. Really??. Note: I am not saying that he WAS at fault, I'm saying it's possible. Even when I talked to him the next day, he was unwilling to admit that possibility. In his mind, it was the other guy's fault...even though Ben was on the outside and obviously got stuffed and never saw the bike that was stuffing him (they hit shoulders if that matters). My point is only that it's frightening to have someone unable/unwilling to even admit the possibility that it was their fault.
I don't want to make a blanket statement such as "If you are involved in a two-bike incident and if one of the riders is unwilling to admit any possibility that it was his fault, then it is in fact his fault" but it seems that way to me in both of these cases. Perhaps I can replace the words "in fact" with "likely" and that will handle it.
Recover well guys...see you out there next year...and great positive discussion about an unfortunate event.
Tad
CCS AM #818
if ur refering to me id like to know where i denounced any responsibility??? i said i didnt know who casued it and multiple times pointed out that i was not blaming him! if ur not refering to me then this comment is worthless lol but it is what it is and all we can do is move forward......
>>but it is what it is and all we can do is learn from this and move forward......
There, fixed it for you.
If more than a single person has spoken to you about this, you need to reflect.
I certainly don't want to be involved in any incidents. "That's racing..." doesn't cut it.
Quote from: Dori Ninja on October 08, 2009, 02:21:38 AM
if ur refering to me id like to know where i denounced any responsibility??? i said i didnt know who casued it and multiple times pointed out that i was not blaming him! if ur not refering to me then this comment is worthless lol but it is what it is and all we can do is move forward......
Funny story, it turns out I have a broken back...might have a hard time moving forward from that. Maybe after the back brace, rehab, and possible back surgery. I'll let you know how it goes.
Sorry to hear about the back, don't make any snap decisions though. I suffered 2 fractured vertibra in my neck a couple years ago (accident at work) and while they still bother me, and I did lose an entire season, I'm back and faster than I used to be.
Hope you heal up well.
Quote from: HAWK on October 08, 2009, 08:27:25 PM
Sorry to hear about the back, don't make any snap decisions though. I suffered 2 fractured vertibra in my neck a couple years ago (accident at work) and while they still bother me, and I did lose an entire season, I'm back and faster than I used to be.
Hope you heal up well.
I'll be honest, that's very encouraging. Thank you!
Alex,
That totally sucks, I'm so sorry to hear it, and again, if you need anything...
Charles,
Seriously, man, figure it out. You were involved in this accident, so no matter what, you bear at least partial (equal? full?) responsibility. In a nutshell, when you're out on the track, the very least you owe your fellow riders is to ride a safe, consistent line. When you're heading into turn 2 on the new and improved line that you're exploring (which, incidentally, noone else is using because it ISN'T THE LINE) in your never-ending quest for more speed and the guy you suddenly encounter at the intersection of HIS line and yours suddenly slows down, checks up, farts, whatever, then it is your responsibility to react smoothly and safely. It is NOT acceptable for you to suddenly CHANGE your line and move over to a location you deem more desirable , but which is, in fact, already occupied by another rider. That isn't racing, it's horseshit. (Personally, I'd go off the track before I'd willingly risk hitting another rider, especially if I was the one riding over my head, but that's just me. I guess I just don't have the ambition to excel and win, but again, I never finished off the podium all year long, so what do I know? At least I never took another guy out in my quest for greatness, such as it were.)
When you can afford to go rent out a track and ride around all by yourself, feel free to go out and ride whatever the fuck line you want, but until then, do everyone a favor and realize that there are other guys out there with you and that safety, courtesy, consistency, and, dare I say it, good racing are the shared responsibility of everyone involved. You don't get to go out and just ride whatever lines you want and then just shrug your shoulders.
Sorry to everyone for repeating myself (and everyone else), but WTF? How do we get through to this guy? Or do we just stop trying?
OK I'm done with this bull, everyone here is treating me like an idiot. OK i am truly sorry for what part i played in the incident!!! i didn't mean it, i not out for my own personal gain at everyones ex pence!!!! stop talking to me like I'm the biggest asshole on the track!!! its not like that!! i get in one wreck that involves someone else and now all of a sudden I'm this erratic horrible racer but before when all of u were mopping the floor with me i was doing great and all!!! this for lack of better words is utter bullshit!!! I'm telling u all here that i am trying to improve and that i am taking head to everyting said and trying to learn!!! it is my first year!!!! OK sorry i cant go out there and be rossi on the track smooth as glass and not crashing at all. u all are pissing me off now because i have explained to u all time and time again that i am trying to get my riding to a good level and i cant do that over night!! i am not riding over my head, i am not disregarding everyones safety u complain cause u have to go to work on Monday...guess what...so do i!! making A LOT LESS then all of u!!! and i have to go to school and i have to go train so i can go put my life on the line to protect ur freedoms to come on here and talk shit to me!!! yea me! how many of u here signed ur life away for that??? i understand the world of racing!! i really do, i know this is not gunna make me the next rossi or Lorenzo, trust me i am well aware of that fact, i no its gunna take TIME and EFFORT on my part!!! one year is not gunna make me the smoothest guy on the track!!! u all had a first year and if anyone of u want to tell me that ur first year u were like butter all day everyday u went out on the track I'm gunna call u a damned liar!!! i was trying to be nice, but when all of u want to treat me like a disrespectful piece of crap over and over i have to draw the line!!! as a soldier i no what it means to watch out for my comrads!!! u have ur buddies get blown up by some random alquida and tell me what its like to be in a situation that endangers ur fellow brothers!!!! i am trying my best to do this, do it right, do it safe, and do it good. get off my back and let me try to progress!! if i cant the guess one ill be just another talented no skilled drop out, but that's on me!!! give me ur constructive criticism.....i appreciate that but don't keep giving it to me time and time again unless it is necessary....which in this case it is not because there has not been another event in between time for me to show u i have or have not taken heed to ur advice!!!
and for those complaining about my lack of gramer/spelling/proper English, don't read this cause i have officially stopped caring about the bullshit!!! I'm tyring to be friendly cause i like this world and i usually get along great with everyone, but i will not stand for u treating me like a child when it is unnecessary!!!
Quote...trying my best to do this, do it right, do it safe, and do it good. get off my back and let me try to progress...
most posts are directed at helping you achieve the first part of this statement, the rest are frustrated at your opinion backed by the second part... help is being offered, yet you refuse to acknowledge it.
we all appreciate your efforts in protecting our freedoms, one of which is to have an opinion. An opinion that has been gleaned from countless hours on the track and every year seeing the new kid that wants this sport to take them somewhere. you are nothing new to the scene, its been seen a thousand times. The few that have gone on to bigger and better things than CCS club racing didnt get there by telling the veterans to "get off their back". They got there by listening to the advice being offered, taking it to heart, and correcting the mistakes that everyone makes at somepoint or another.
Maybe I am reading this wrong...
Quote from: Dori Ninja on October 08, 2009, 02:21:38 AM
if ur refering to me id like to know where i denounced any responsibility??? i said i didnt know who casued it and multiple times pointed out that i was not blaming him! if ur not refering to me then this comment is worthless lol but it is what it is and all we can do is move forward......
I would take that as "You are claiming it was my fault which is a bunch of hooey, I have no idea if it was my fault but it DEFINATELY wasnt the other guys fault..."
Well said Jim!
Wow - Charles - you just don't get it, do you? Everybody is actually trying to help you - to give you the advantage to learn from our own mistakes and to reach a higher level of riding more quickly and more safely.
I really hope that this sinks in before next year; but, at this point I have to say that I do not look forward to seeing you at the track.
George
Get well, Alex.
Let me know if you need anything !
Maybe we could get Charles to race that Bermudan guy that caused all that rukus @ VIR early on this year. The similarities are striking although the VIR dude is an expert.
But seriously, when there is a substantial injury, rigurous examination of the circumstances is paramount to avoid repetition. Another situation that springs to mind is that T14 crash @ RA. Both riders did not ride this year.
Just found out that a guy I was dirt riding with in Mo with Scott S. broke his back (he's walking) trying out Schaeff's new bike; that bike bit Scott the second day but not as badly.