How are the new Michelins... and other tires?

[lil_thorny]

Wouldn't it have more to do with the fact that the Pro's are their older model and not the best available anymore? It seems like Pirelli and (and Metzeler previously) always offer their older stuff at a cheaper cost. It's a great deal for a newer rider but the tires aren't as good as the new ones right?

I'm nowhere near the rider Melka is so my opinion might not be worth as much but I totally agree with him about the Power Ones, they are awesome.

wait....Melka is fast?

[MELK-MAN]

 

wait....Melka is fast?

LOL.. I keep telling everyone it's just "smoke n' mirrors" and im totally overrated.. ! Fast on a regional level maybe, Fast on a Jensen/Wood level.. nope. What up Benji 

red900, im not sure i understood what you were trying to say. Why would Michelin sell tires at the cost of other "cheap" tires just because all the R&D is done? That money was spent, but the costs in developing the new tire needs recouped. Any company looks for a return on investment. Also, brands don't have the same perception of quality..like cars.. sorry for going down the economics lesson path, but Michelin is known for excellent quality and people are willing to pay a bit more than the Ching Shin or Tomahawk because of it.. Saturn cars could design a car that looked and drove just like a Lexus but nobody would pay the same money. What are the "Pro's" tire.. Did you mean PR tires? The older series tires are discounted, you can buy em while they last cheaper than the Power1 tires.

[R1Racer99]

He was talking about the older Pirellis, the Dragon Supercorsa Pros. Pretty much the same deal as Michelin selling their PRs cheap, because they're not the best they have to offer anymore. I don't see what development costs have to do with anything, Pirellis are still a little more expensive than Michelins around here.

[Grashopr]

I dont know much about much, but I love the new Power One's.  I'm not a podium monkey, which means my tire checks come out of my own checking account, so I've always been very conscious of how many laps my tires have made before I had to start being cautious on them. 

In 07 I ran the PR-C/PR-3 combo for races and PR-C/PR-5 for trackdays.  I could get about 45 laps out of the PR3 before it started to slip on Turn 6 and 14 (the two slickest corners for me at HPT).  It was controllable, and was always predictable when it would start spooling up the rear, but I rarely took a tire past about 45 laps without letting up. 

the PR5 could make almost a whole day (6.5 hours of approximately 32 laps an hour for about 200 laps a day) before the left side would start to spool up if pushed beyond Intermediate speeds. 

The PR-C front always lasted through about 2 PR3's or 5's, but was obviously boiled on the left by the end of 2 PR5's.

I got ahold of my first set of Power-One's the morning of Practice at HPT last month.  At Scotty and Tom's recommendation, I went with the 'V' front and the "B" rear.  After practice on Saturday, morning practices on Saturday and Sunday, and the Supersport and Superbike races both days... then a partial Trackday on Monday, I'm now at 154 laps on the same set and have not had the rear end spool up yet. 

The left side of the B rear is missing the mini-tread cuts except for the very edges of the ones near the center, with the wear marker 'bumps' gone.  The right side of the rear still has about 1/4 of the depth of the tread cuts, and the wear markers are level with the surface.  I dont know if I've burnt into them at all yet, but the surface is at least down to them. 

I got down into the 1:52's for a  couple laps late at the trackday, and still didn't feel the rear end slipping anywhere on the track.  Either it's not spooling up yet, or it's still driving forward enough to keep the rear end from stepping out when it does it. 

The front looks good on both sides.  The left side of the front is not down to the wear markers yet, and the right side looks like my old PR-C would have after about 20 laps. 

So far, for the price, I've already saved at least one rear tire, and if I was hard up, I would feel confident running cautiously for the superbike and supersport races on this same set for this weekend on them.  The new Power One's definitely kick ass compared to what I THOUGHT was the already terrific PRC/PR3 combo.  I am just wondering now how much longivity I would give up going to an A rear.... 

[lil_thorny]

LOL.. I keep telling everyone it's just "smoke n' mirrors" and im totally overrated.. ! Fast on a regional level maybe, Fast on a Jensen/Wood level.. nope. What up Benji 

red900, im not sure i understood what you were trying to say. Why would Michelin sell tires at the cost of other "cheap" tires just because all the R&D is done? That money was spent, but the costs in developing the new tire needs recouped. Any company looks for a return on investment. Also, brands don't have the same perception of quality..like cars.. sorry for going down the economics lesson path, but Michelin is known for excellent quality and people are willing to pay a bit more than the Ching Shin or Tomahawk because of it.. Saturn cars could design a car that looked and drove just like a Lexus but nobody would pay the same money. What are the "Pro's" tire.. Did you mean PR tires? The older series tires are discounted, you can buy em while they last cheaper than the Power1 tires.

I am with Greg and I can also tell you that I should have lost the front in T1 a couple of times at HPT in April...just getting to know the track and the new Power 1 V stuck like glue. Furthermore, I used all of my 675's torque on the new 180 rear "B" didn't spin at all...granted I only managed to find my way into a couple 47s before I started blowing fork seals (thank you very much rock pit) BHF will be the true test for me. Incidentally, I did the similar lap times on the old tires during practice session that I did on the new Powers in the race...but then again was probably mental since I was leaking fork oil all over my caliper :)

LT

[superspud]

I've raced the new power ones and the new pirelli's.  The power one's felt great but I was 6 seconds slower at RA but it was May vs July.  The real test will be at BHF coming up.  Now that the suspension and clutch are refreshed should be pretty apples to apples. 

[red900]

Melk-Man, Please re-read my post.  IT said nothing about Michelins.  I only spoke of Pirelli's Tire. 

Pirelli has a fantastic Contingency program as well, Very comparable if you are making your decision based on that but I dont think you are based on your post. 

I am not going to get into a pissing match about who has a better tire, all I can ask you to do is give the Pirelli a try. Sure, I could tell you about how Pirelli's are constantly improving, applying knowledge from World Superbike and World Supersport right into our tires. I could talk about what compound Ben Spies prefers or why Haga likes a certain rear compound. I could tell you that  many or our tires have been updated from the tires that were coming off the truck just 6 months ago.  Not major changes, but lots of small incremental changes that add up in the end. I could tell you Pirelli does not wait years to make things better. I could also tell you another great thing about Pirelli is EVERYONE gets the same tires.  Our top Riders, get there tires off the same stack as you and me.  You wont see a Pirelli Guy winning on tires that are "Specials" that nobody else can get. 
I could tell you alot of things about the tires and throw out riders names and championships. blah blah blah...    But, I wont...

I know of two things to be true: 
1.  There are alot of misconceptions in this sport, and the only person you can trust is yourself. 
2. After seeing how much free product is given away for endorsements, i stopped trusting magazines and winning riders a long time ago.  I make up my mind by how it feels, not what some salesman tells me it can do.......

[red900]

For those that are wondering how the price can go down once the development costs and investments are paid off do a Google Search on the following phrases, you should be able to come up with an answer.  Other people can explain it much better than me.

Life-Cycle Cost
Life-Cycle Cost Analysis
Return on Investment

[PDARacing]

I wouldn't say that Pirelli's Contingency program is good at all. I know they are trying to improve it, but it's been 3 months since we raced at VIR and I have yet to see anything come in. All the other Manufacturers already paid out. I hear from Pirelli that all my results are in, verified, but they're waiting for the next "payout period." I have 3 rounds in a row coming up and no tire money, so what do I do?

The Pirelli is by far the best quality and long lasting tire I have ever been on. Just need them to get on the ball with payouts. I ran the front down to nothing recently and it was telling me exactly what was going on. It was sliding through 6-7 at Summit, but it was controllable. Amazing.

[tstruyk]

whats really funny is that if Melka was connected to Pirelli and DB were selling MIchelins you could more than likely take their posts, and simply change the name of the poster.  they are both doing a great job promoting "their brand" which is a VERY important part of any business model or sponsorship obligation.  And everything they are saying seems to be accurate down to the last detail... that being said...

All the tires are sticky, guys go fast on everything..

Youre tire selection should be more about

1.  Support.  Will i have tires available and can I ask questions any time I am on the track
2.  Confidnece.  Am I happy with whats underneath me enough to KNOW they will hook up when I need em too
3.  Affordability.  If running dunlops means I dont race hald my weekends, I might look elsewhere
4.  Contingency.  Why spend money to chase down $200 if you win, if youre 5 seconds off a winning pace.  

I'd rather dump money towards a guy/brand that supports me, the sport and my program.  Lets be honest.  Most kids out there really, it just doesnt matter what they are on.  Really if any one of the big manufacturers offered you FREE tires, would you switch?  I know I would!

whoever can provide the best package (see above) will be where you end up.

I dont have it all figured out, but I'm workin on it!  

[Helmsman]

I am not going to get into a pissing match about who has a better tire, all I can ask you to do is give the Pirelli a try. Sure, I could tell you about how Pirelli's are constantly improving, applying knowledge from World Superbike and World Supersport right into our tires. I could talk about what compound Ben Spies prefers or why Haga likes a certain rear compound. I could tell you that  many or our tires have been updated from the tires that were coming off the truck just 6 months ago.  Not major changes, but lots of small incremental changes that add up in the end. I could tell you Pirelli does not wait years to make things better. I could also tell you another great thing about Pirelli is EVERYONE gets the same tires.  Our top Riders, get there tires off the same stack as you and me.  You wont see a Pirelli Guy winning on tires that are "Specials" that nobody else can get. 
I could tell you alot of things about the tires and throw out riders names and championships. blah blah blah...    But, I wont...

Umm..you did.  Or did i miss a weak attempt at sarcasm?

[roadracer162]

whats really funny is that if Melka was connected to Pirelli and DB were selling MIchelins you could more than likely take their posts, and simply change the name of the poster.  they are both doing a great job promoting "their brand" which is a VERY important part of any business model or sponsorship obligation.  And everything they are saying seems to be accurate down to the last detail... that being said...

All the tires are sticky, guys go fast on everything..

Youre tire selection should be more about

1.  Support.  Will i have tires available and can I ask questions any time I am on the track
2.  Confidnece.  Am I happy with whats underneath me enough to KNOW they will hook up when I need em too
3.  Affordability.  If running dunlops means I dont race hald my weekends, I might look elsewhere
4.  Contingency.  Why spend money to chase down $200 if you win, if youre 5 seconds off a winning pace.  

I'd rather dump money towards a guy/brand that supports me, the sport and my program.  Lets be honest.  Most kids out there really, it just doesnt matter what they are on.  Really if any one of the big manufacturers offered you FREE tires, would you switch?  I know I would!

whoever can provide the best package (see above) will be where you end up.

I dont have it all figured out, but I'm workin on it!  

Very well said. I would vote for you before i vote for Obama.