More BS

[GIGOLO]

How are you so sure the pipes were the difference? Did you interview the other driver(s) after the incident? Anecdotal evidence is not usable as proof.

I have been street riding for 29 years and over 300,000 miles. I commute between 180 and 200 days per year. I rarely have any problems with cars. I used to, but as my street skills increased, my close calls with cars have gone to nearly zero. I don't recall having to use my horn once this past year. If you are relying on a loud pipe to save you. perhaps you need to re-evaluate your street riding. Racing skills are nearly useless on the street. Reminds me of an old saying in flying - applies equally well to this situation - A superior pilot uses his superior judgment to avoid situations requiring his superior flying skills.

All loud pipes do is piss people off and cause politicians to ban pipes.

Changing any part of the emission system on a street vehicle that adversely affects emissions (tailpipe or sound) is already illegal. I am not sure how difficult it is to enforce these requirements. The fines are stiff, on the order of $10,000 PER CHANGE. Also the selling dealer can be fined, especially if they installed the part(s).

Perhaps you would like the EPA to begin to enforce the Clean Air Act (1979)?

Dude, WTF, am I in a fuckin court room stating anecdotal evidence as fact?  NO, I am on a racing forum, chillax.

[r1owner]

Problem is your freedom impinges on my right to enjoy driving while being able to hear my stereo (with my windows up if it's a Harley)!

I could care less what you do as long as it doesn't make life miserable for anyone else.

You could go on and on... want the freedom to kill anyone anytime you like too?

[GIGOLO]

Problem is your freedom impinges on my right to enjoy driving while being able to hear my stereo (with my windows up if it's a Harley)!

I could care less what you do as long as it doesn't make life miserable for anyone else.

You could go on and on... want the freedom to kill anyone anytime you like too?

Being able to hear ABBA's greatest hits on your stereo or not,  you noticed that a bike was close.  End of story.

[r1owner]

Being able to hear ABBA's greatest hits on your stereo or not,  you noticed that a bike was close.  End of story.

I notice bikes are around cause I pay attention when I drive.  Loud pipes don't do crap to save your life.

I like to enjoy sitting in my house without hearing obnoxious inconsiderate assholes on Harleys from a mile away. 

[kl3640]

Anyway, interesting debate guys, but please follow the link in the first post in this thread and contact the NYC Council and express your distaste with this proposed legislation (unless you actually agree with it).

[HAWK]

I agree that legislating NO aftermarket pipes period is wrong, however it is far too easy to understand big brothers position. There are noise laws, have been for many years, that aren't working (it is illegal to install any component that increases the noise of a car or motorcycle above noise emission standards) so they are trying a new direction to see if they can fix the problem. I too am with the professor on this one.

I for one have a major problem with some moron who thinks it is cool to see if he can try to set a new noise record while I'm trying to sleep, doesn't matter if he's on a Harley or in a car.

Oh yeah, I too have over a 1/4 million miles commuting on stock piped BMW motorcycles and the closest calls I've ever had were from traffic turning left in FRONT of me, where they can't hear your pipes yet. How's your traffic compare to Chicago traffic?

[kl3640]

I agree that legislating NO aftermarket pipes period is wrong, however it is far too easy to understand big brothers position. There are noise laws, have been for many years, that aren't working (it is illegal to install any component that increases the noise of a car or motorcycle above noise emission standards) so they are trying a new direction to see if they can fix the problem. I too am with the professor on this one.

I for one have a major problem with some moron who thinks it is cool to see if he can try to set a new noise record while I'm trying to sleep, doesn't matter if he's on a Harley or in a car.

Oh yeah, I too have over a 1/4 million miles commuting on stock piped BMW motorcycles and the closest calls I've ever had were from traffic turning left in FRONT of me, where they can't hear your pipes yet. How's your traffic compare to Chicago traffic?

I too have done a lot of street riding on BMW's, and my current one came with one of the new style exhausts (the "Cannon"), and by replacing it I saved 25lbs of partially sprung weight while maintaining the same noise level.  I can't honestly say what that did to emissions, but if the issue is with emissions, then let the EPA regulate it, or let states do what they will (like CA); but banning aftermarket pipes altogether is not the answer.

Again, where I live the town issued a noise ordinance, and the police enforce it, plain and simple.  And it works.

[2old2fat2slow]

My big,ugly,obnoxiously loud metric cruiser has a horn on it that sounds like a freight train and here in D.C. the meat puppets do not hear it over their whiney,self-centered inner voices. They do hear my Vance & Hines 2 into 1 when I rattle the moldings off their doors with a couple blips on the throttle. I have a close call nearly every time I ride on interstate 95 including today while on my way home from church. I will run loud pipes until I move to an area where the car drivers are paying attention. Where is that????

[GIGOLO]

Meat puppets, thats funny.



I bought a ninja 250 '08,  for my wife.  I rode the piss outta that bike almost everyday this past summer in stock trim.  I would say about three times a week I would predict when the driver was going to change lanes in front of me, and watch them do it.  About September I hacked her pipe into a third of what it used to be, it sounds like a pissed off U.P.S. truck now.  Not once since then have I been passing somebody on the left and they didnt know I was there.  Drawback to a loud pipe on a relatively slow bike is,before I hacked the exhaust I would rip down any given street nobody ever yelled at me to slow down.  Now with a loud pipe, even if I am doing the speed limit I get yelled at and/or a dirty ass look is shot at me. 

As far as waking people up in the middle of the night, I have never done that, furthermore I hate it.  Though, the guys that usually do that kind of stuff supply the racing community with bikes at auctions so

[tug296]

I've ridden the street since 1971, many bikes both quiet and loud.
There are blind spots in cars where a motorcycle can't be seen by the average driving citizen, if the exhaust is loud enough for granny or grandpa to hear it, he or she usually won't come into your lane if she knows something is there.
The boom boom cars can't hear you or emergency sirens while the volume is up, I'd rather hear a Harley at a red light than a shiny high wheeled thugsta's trunk ratting.
Always vote for more freedom, not more restrictions.

[tzracer]

I don't know where you live.  But where I live the traffic always ranks in the top three for worst in the country and everyone drives with their heads up their ass.

I ride to work everyday regardless of weather including snow, unless I'm racing that weekend and leaving directly from work.  That only happened once this year.  Over 250k miles in less than 15 years.


I have an air horn on my VFR and even that isn't always enough to snap these dumbasses out of their zombie-like state.  Bouncing it off the limiter with some backfires always seems to work though.  Yesterday I had to do it on my DR650 while some dumbass from New York thought it was a good idea to change lanes while I'm passing them.  Oh, and I'm far from sitting in blindspots like you might be surmising.  I always know what these fools are about to do anyways so it's not all that threatening.  People ignore horns even loud ones.  They need some sort of abnormal stimulus to get their attention.

The loud VFR also scares away deer, I can see them running off well before I reach them.  Either that or they freeze in place.  What's kind of funny is that after getting the air horn I figured I'd run a quieter muffler for a while.  So the very next day on the way to work with a quiet muffler I nailed a deer. Two of the bastards jumped out right in front of me.  The loud muffler went back on during the rebuild.

Far more complicated than just staying out of blind spots. My goal is to know what all drivers are going to do before they do it and act accordingly. Will I ever be able to do this all the time? No, but it does not stop me from trying.

High density freeway driving is not the most deadly riding. Most deaths (more than half) occur on undivided highways. Ever see a country kid turn off his lights to run a stop sign at night? I have, several times, once close enough to see the rear seat passenger screaming.

Don't know what you mean by snow, we get far too much to ride much during the winter - average 48", last year almost 100". Temp this morning was 1F when I left for work. I took the car. As I have gotten older I ride less in cold weather, pain to get dressed/undressed for the ride.

I feel the main problem is the attitude about driving in the US. Most do not take it seriously. Cell phone use while driving should be illegal. Wish it would not have to be, but people do not seem to have common sense to use phones properly - especially texting while driving. People should start by following the rules of the road and taking pride in their driving.

[tzracer]

Being able to think for yourself is starting to become a thing of the past.  To let an individual decide whether it's right or wrong to tear ass down a side street with a loud pipe is freedom.  Freedom to decide for ourselves if we want a loud pipe, a bike that does over 180, to get high, to get drunk, to want to ride mandem, to marry your best friend who happens to be the same sex as you.  I could go all day, but the point is simple, I want the freedom to decide. 

Except that your freedom ends where my ears begin. You are free to decide, but you also accept the consequences of your decision. With freedom comes personal responsibility.