HIGHWAY FREAKING ROBBERY!!!

[Roach]

oh yeah, roach...... CCS club racing is hardly AMA pro racing. FORMULA USA is not worth that price. IMHO

::shrug:: then don't pay it, and don't go. That's an easy solution to the problem, and it's how a free-market economy works. Complaining doesn't do anything - showing the market will not bear the price does.

As for costs going up...  perhaps insurance has gone up this year for track rentals due to the insurance companies losing their shirts on 9/11? I know NESBA (track day org) is paying 15% more this year for that reason. Inflation also happens. A 20oz soda was $1 last year at 7-11 ... it's a buck-ninteen now unless it's on sale.

And you're right... CCS is not the AMA, ergo, it's less than half the price for attendance. Ditto for FUSA events.

::shrug::
- Roach

[THE_D.O.C.]

 ::) ok roach.  wouldn't you suppose that CCS knows that people have invested thousands up front to buy a bike, get a liscense, and then buy inflated entry fees AGAIN this season. do you think they would drive hours on end, get to a track, and say screw it i'm not paying that price!! HELL NO they wouldn't, and CCS knows this. by the way, if you know math at all, what is the increase if track admission goes from $20.00 to $25.00? not fifteen percent!!!

[Roach]

::) ok roach.  wouldn't you suppose that CCS knows that people have invested thousands up front to buy a bike, get a liscense, and then buy inflated entry fees AGAIN this season. do you think they would drive hours on end, get to a track, and say screw it i'm not paying that price!! HELL NO they wouldn't, and CCS knows this.

Ummm... and it's their fault you didn't call first, or look on the website, or call the track, or email them, or ... ? The information was available for you to make an educated decision whether to race/attend given their pricing. The information has been available since before the season started. I'm not trying to be rude... but I'm not sympathetic either.

by the way, if you know math at all, what is the increase if track admission goes from $20.00 to $25.00? not fifteen percent!!!

Jonny charges 20 cents for a lemonade. His mom takes half the money received for each lemonade as jonny is using the front lawn, her card table, and her favorite pitcher. How much does jonny have to raise the price of each lemonade to increase his take by 15%?

You're right... they're not making 15% more. They're only making 12.5%

It's $25 for WERA as well these days at most venues ($25 every race at summit, $30 for the cycle jam at VIR at the gate on Thurs).

I think you really underestimate the costs of doing what CCS (and WERA) do. Beyond that... it IS a for-profit business. The amount they charge is based on their costs, and what the market will bear.  

If you want slightly cheaper race entries, go race with WERA and pre-enter everything (they offer a slight discount for pre-entry). If you enter the solo20 (GT race), and three sprints your cost is $185.

However... if you don't pre-enter with WERA, as your statement above about showing up and getting hit with "inflated prices" would suggest, the rates are exactly the same - $205 (plus track entry)

- Roach

[ecumike]

ahh, thus my questions is answered, thanks Roach.

[Roach]

either {A} ccs is not growing as it says. or {B} people are being ripped off. now you run along to your track days silly.

Sorry ... missed this one.  What it means is that CCS *isn't* ripping people off. If they were, people would stop showing up. Thus they would not grow - they would shrink.

If you charge more for your product or service than the market will bear (perceived value), people will stop buying the product or service and buy something else / go elsewhere. If your prices are in line with, or are lower than your customers' perception of what the product is worth (excluding monopolies such as the phone company), people will buy the product and or use the service, and your business will grow.

CCS/FUSA is growing. You may not think the prices are right, but their attendance figures show that you are in the minority. ::shrug:: That's just how it works - it's doesn't mean your opinion is incorrect... it just means that most people don't share it. The old addage "You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of time" is never wrong.

- Roach

[THE_D.O.C.]

roach, 5.00$ is 25% of 20.00% idiot!!

[Roach]

roach, 5.00$ is 25% of 20.00% idiot!!

And when all else fails, the uneducated turn to personal insults.

Obviously the Jonny math problem in the prior message was over your head.

$5 is indeed 25% of $20. The track takes half of the gate at events, leaving CCS/WERA with a net gain of $2.50, or 12.5%.

- Roach

[THE_D.O.C.]

Roach, I'd be willing to put all of my credentialing up against yours. Now, if you prefer to be a head of cattle mindlessly following the ass in front of you to slaughter, go right ahead. Me personally, if I see something that is crap, I will surely say so. I say CCS is either lying about their growth, or they are gouging their consumers with higher entry fees and gate fees. If you want to spout 10th grade economics and talk about what markets will bear, go right ahead. Hey, in your tenth grade economics class did they talk about inflation? It's caused by one thing...... GREED. You see, cost of living goes up as people creep up the cost of goods and services. Just like............. YOU GUESSED IT!!!! CCS IS DOING NOW!!!  I'd be curious if you want to continue this discussion and keep calling me uneducated. I'm sure my business volume, revenues, and profits smoke yours. Cheers.
                                             BRAD WILSON

[CCS]

Brad,

It is an entry form, not a subpeona. As Roach pointed out, we do have competition you could spend your money with if we are charging too much. (I believe Brian pointed out that post-entry fees are the same for both organizations.)

Our costs have risen nearly 30% over the last 2 years, and the only increases you have seen were $5 on the first and second entry in 2001(equal to 10% by anyones math) and in 2002 for purse paying classes (in which the purses were increased by at least 50%.) If you race for just trophies, your fees are the same for 2002 as they were in 2001! So the net entry/gate increases do not equal the increase in our costs, we cover that by the increase in numbers that we tell you about. And as Brian pointed out, there are no tracks on the East coast that do not take a sizable portion of the gates fees collected. (If you make it a spectator event, they take even more!)

As a business man, you should now that before you try to figure how much profit or loss some one is making, you have to know the business. Next time you see me at a race, stop and talk to me. I saw you at VIR and I am suprised you did not talk to me of your concerns then. I will be glad to give you a briefing in Motorcycle Road Race Promotion 101 the next time I see you.

Until then, good day.

[THE_D.O.C.]

kevin, if iwere to go to all my accounts and say. sorry doctor but this now cost you more. oh yeah and this now costs you more, oh yeah i forgot, this will also cost you more. would i tell him to stow it because he probably doesn't know anything about running a huge corporation. would i not expect him/her to voice disdain and possibly frustration? HELL YES. the fact is, there is NO WAY your costs have gone up that much. it is just like roach said, you set the price, and the customers will pay it. you guys forget from time to time what we are, CUSTOMERS!!! and i sure as HELL wouldn't tell my customers as you would suggest "you could go get your stuff somewhere else." that would be suicide. ;)

[Admin]

To me, the prices seem reasonable as much as the prices are reasonable in any other organization like this.  This is not a cheap sport...although I'm sure we all wish it was.

You complained, and I think that is fair...but there isn't much else that can be done.  Now you know the prices, and if its too much, why not just take your business elsewhere as has already been suggested?  Nothing speaks louder then the mighty dollar.

Or, work with CCS to figure out ways that prices can be lowered.  Just voicing a complaint rarely gets anywhere.  Come up with viable options for CCS to cover its expenses and make a profit, while lowering fees, and I'm sure they will listen.

Shawn

[THE_D.O.C.]

once again shawn, VERY VALUBLE INFO!!!! Thanks but, i will say whatever i please. "take your business elswhere" BRILLIANT!!!!!!!  ::) do you own a business perhaps, if so not for very long.