When to chanage tires?

[TonyC]

I have read and heard a lot about people changing there tires at least every other race weekend.  I don't think I'm at the level where I am burning through tires that quickly. 

Can someone provide some guidance/advice as to when tires should be changed. 

I'm not trying to penny pinch on tires, I just hate to change tires that don't need changing.

[cbirk]

I ran my old ones to the wear bars. I'm hoping that will change in the future.

[catman]

Hey Tony - from what i've learned, its about minimizing heat cycles(hardens the tire) by using adjustable warmers to correct temps during your day on track.Also when the tire cant maintain(insulate)itself in the  optimum temperature range,the rubber has worn out its rubber insulation,its got to get a steppin-tires are more tacky/safe when in their ZONE  -see you art summit next week? yellerplated  #21 John -in NJ - never take advice from a yellerplate!

[Super Dave]

Really, tires do one thing:  give traction.  That's a rider's margin of safety.  This has been said many times - I should have changed my tires.  Tires can give an amount of traction to a certain point.  But the best part, which has the best margin of safety, is the first part of the tire that is used. 

To the wear bars?  Yeah, well, one's margin of safety is drastically diminished. 

Next, less experienced racers and track day riders have a harder time recognizing how the tire feels and works when it's worn out. 

If one is questioning the tire, it's much easier to replace it then rather than replacing it after repairing crash damage.

[251am]

I have read and heard a lot about people changing there tires at least every other race weekend.  I don't think I'm at the level where I am burning through tires that quickly. 

Can someone provide some guidance/advice as to when tires should be changed. 

I'm not trying to penny pinch on tires, I just hate to change tires that don't need changing.

Here's some general "rules" I follow. Thanks for asking as it made me really think about specifics for the coming season.

a. Tire care; use warmers for periods no longer than 45 minutes, before putting warmers on after a session clean ALL rubber/rocks/debris from the carcass surface, ask your tire vendor for advice on pressures and care specific to the rubber you run, store tires in a dark and cool environment when away from track.

b. Tire wear; this is a tough one to put blanket instructions on as there are lots of variables out there and here's an example. Lots of tracks have areas on them that are well polished. When I get "off the line" on a corner exit, and onto a polished section of say MAM or Gingerman, a slide can occur on hard acceleration that *might* lead me to believe the grip is down or gone and I need a new rear. Actually, I just needed to stay on the line. Chassis; there are variables in set up that can lead to too much rear end slide such as having your ride height too high, your front end may be chewing up tires for having too much pre-load. It goes on and on in as many different ways, with differing variances in suspension set-up, as there are opinions on which adjustments do what. Which brings me to one of the doozies...

c. Opinions; The guy pit next to you may be just changing out a set of tires every other weekend, but how hard does he/she race, and how much do they compete and in how many classes. Be careful to not take some opinions as the law and keep your eyes and ears open. Look for yourself around the pits at other folks running your brand and talk to them too. However, the opinion you should put the most stock in is the Michelin man, Tommy Mason! j/k!!!  (no, not really)

  If you're chewing up too many tires consult your tire guy and a suspension guy who visits most of your race circuit during your race season. Work with them. What tires and what bike are you running?           

[TonyC]

-see you art summit next week?

Yes.

[TonyC]

Next, less experienced racers and track day riders have a harder time recognizing how the tire feels and works when it's worn out. 

That's exactly how I feel.

[TonyC]

61Ex,

Thanks for your thoughts.  I am currently running Pirelli Super Corsa's on my '06 Kawa 636.  The tires have done 3 sprint races at Daytona and a track day (six 20 minute sessions) at Pocono.  The tires still felt good at the end of the Pocono day, but I never want to risk it and push a tire that should be changed.

[superspud]

As many others, much wiser than myself have said, it depends on feel, and down the line, the track your racing on, suspension settings, number of laps run, pace, etc, which all contribute to feel.  The first part of your tire is your best bit of traction.  I replace my tires every weekend, but I usually race 4 races, two 7-8 lap sprints and two GT races 17-18 laps, as well as practices.  After that, I'd be comfy riding a trackday or more practices, but generally I wouldn't run a whole new race weekend on the same tires.  Usually, I get the urge to replace when the back starts stepping out about 4 times per lap, and I probably needlessly replace the front at that time as well.  I sell my tackoffs for $100 and buy a new set for $250, so in the end, that formula works for me.  Good luck!

[Gixxerblade]

Here's some general "rules" I follow. Thanks for asking as it made me really think about specifics for the coming season.

a. Tire care; use warmers for periods no longer than 45 minutes, before putting warmers on after a session clean ALL rubber/rocks/debris from the carcass surface, ask your tire vendor for advice on pressures and care specific to the rubber you run, store tires in a dark and cool environment when away from track.

b. Tire wear; this is a tough one to put blanket instructions on as there are lots of variables out there and here's an example. Lots of tracks have areas on them that are well polished. When I get "off the line" on a corner exit, and onto a polished section of say MAM or Gingerman, a slide can occur on hard acceleration that *might* lead me to believe the grip is down or gone and I need a new rear. Actually, I just needed to stay on the line. Chassis; there are variables in set up that can lead to too much rear end slide such as having your ride height too high, your front end may be chewing up tires for having too much pre-load. It goes on and on in as many different ways, with differing variances in suspension set-up, as there are opinions on which adjustments do what. Which brings me to one of the doozies...

c. Opinions; The guy pit next to you may be just changing out a set of tires every other weekend, but how hard does he/she race, and how much do they compete and in how many classes. Be careful to not take some opinions as the law and keep your eyes and ears open. Look for yourself around the pits at other folks running your brand and talk to them too. However, the opinion you should put the most stock in is the Michelin man, Tommy Mason! j/k!!!  (no, not really)

  If you're chewing up too many tires consult your tire guy and a suspension guy who visits most of your race circuit during your race season. Work with them. What tires and what bike are you running?           

That's cool but one more I would like to add. Tire shape. As you ride it loses it shape.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

Next, less experienced racers and track day riders have a harder time recognizing how the tire feels and works when it's worn out.

What are new tires?  8)

I agree with Dave, it has ALOT to do with experience. For me, using new tires would take some getting use to! Currently I have 2-1/2 seasons (YUP - SEASONS) on my tires (D208GPA's), but I'm also not a fast guy either. At Heartland Park this last weekend my best lap (according to my timer) was 1:56.2 (thought I heard 1:43's were the fastest of the event?) so that was about 12% or so slower than the fastest guy. I only ran 1 practice session and 2 sprint races at that event and finished on the lead lap in both my races. This weekend I noticed I was starting to hit the wear bars on these tires.

I have never used tire warmers in my life, my tires have stayed mounted on my bike the entire time (bike is stored in a non-climate controlled storage shed) and they have also been thru 2 summers and 3 winters so far. At the pace I was running the tires were holding great, it wasn't until Sunday when I was working on passing someone on the outside in the 1st carousel (turn 3?) that I had any real sliding issues, that was a full bike slide that remained very controllable and still resulted in the pass.

Again, I believe it has alot to do with each individuals experience, bike set-up, sense of traction, and what their looking to achieve. The safest thing is to buy new tires if your questioning their traction capability. For me, I don't buy new tires unless they give me a reason to replace them. If I wanted to go fast again I would defenitely have to buy tires more often, but I bet I would get better tire life than most racers running similar times as me, that comes from running less aggressive flowing lines that don't force the bike to turn so hard (aggressive lines can be fast, but they wear the crap out of the tires really fast).

More power to you in your choice! 

[TonyC]

Thanks to all for the comments.