How can we make this better?

[Super Dave]

4. Decline entry of CCS races if a racer holds a top ten points status in AMA Pro Racing, in any class, within a year of the event (including all CCS events, not just the ROC).

So, you'd eliminate a guy like Robbie Jensen?

As an amateur, you're not gonna get any world or national pro level riders in your event.  As an expert, you're an expert. 

I, honestly, prefer to have them in the race.  If Rossi showed up at Mid-Ohio with an R1 for the Superbike event, I know that Mladin, Bostrom, Spies, Wood, Haner, etc...wouldn't care what his name was. 

Ah, then there was Blackhawk 1989.  Suzuki Cup money, and Scott Russell showed up with his Yoshimura 600 Katana.  We didn't care.  We just set out to do what we could to beat him.

I can understand limiting ROC to some kind of points thing, but if an organization needs money to pay for the track rental...they will take amateur and expert riders with only a few points.  Invite select riders, don't just solicit entries from all riders.

[jer271]

Dave, Did you beat him at Blackhawk- Scott Russell???

[Super Dave]

I shouldn't have, and I didn't.  We had an ignition pick up problem all year that I didn't recognize until I was done racing it.  I got fifth, got invited to the Suzuki Cup final.  Ray Yoder gave him a run for his money though.

[Mongo]

Look at sean posting on here. hey didnt you say there was no competition in ccs/asra races.

Probably, what's your point?

[Jeff]

Another thing to consider is that the factory guys and others that are "out of our league" run a pretty significant risk in getting on the track with us.  You think it's bad weeding through amateurs or experts at your level?  Consider theirs...

If you get taken out, well, sorry, your hobby is on hold for now.  If they do (which they have a much better chance at in these races), it can easily end their way of making a living...

[Super Dave]

Shae Fouchek took out Aaron Yates in preseason testing at the beginning of the season this year. 

Yeah, it's a big risk. 

[weggieman]

Then may I suggest they stay at the pro races where they belong.................. I certainly wouldn't want to see anyone get hurt picking cherries.

[Jeff]

My thought as well Gordy...  There's a reason I play in a certain sandbox and not in others...

[CCS]

Moto-ST was regarded as the main show on Saturday, and as you can see from NASCAR on TV, they start when they have it published and we had to make certain the corner workers had time to get their one and only break in their 14 hour day. So ASRA qualifying was cancelled after CCS/ASRA Experts continually crashed on the warm-up lap, the first lap and even the cool-off lap of the mornings races. We had 4 hours to run 2.5 hours of racing and qualifying (the same cushion we use for a whole day of racing at BHF or VIR) and we couldn't get it done. Since we had only 36 minutes to complete qualifying, we felt it was better to cancel all class qualifying to make sure the corner workers got their luinch break.

Gordie, you know there is no way to cut classes unless you want to pay more in entries. What is now an average of $52 per entry would have to be $75 per entry, then with fewer classes you would expect longer races because you paid more and that would just take up the time saved by the reduction. (You wouldn't leave the races at 8 laps no one wants to see three hours of dead track time because there were no delays and we finished the schedule ahead of time.) Then as soon as some one crashed hard and caused a lengthy delay, you are faced with the same dilemma, cut laps, cancel races, etc...etc... and you have the same discussion.

When we cut Sportsman out of the CCS lineup, we lowered the number of races we needed to squeeze in and lengthened the races to 10 laps. The first thing riders did was vote to return to 8 laps...we're dammed if we do, dammed if we don't.

I must take responsibility for the problems with the timing system. When Bill and Claudia Ritger had to bow out of working the ROC, we were left short handed and we shuffled our staff to cover their absence. (Claudia runs the electronic scoring system.) I was busy working with the new DIS personnel and didn't follow through on checking the scoring set-up until it was too late. My bad. Once we figured that out we were providing lap times just as we always have, and if they were missing no one notified me in scoring so we could correct it.

Rhiannon, ASRA races cost more because there was a guaranteed purse, $2000 cash, which sometimes is more than we get in entries. Why do we do it? We do it to try to improve the opportunities for our better riders, (Wood, Jensen, Denning, etc., even Rosno) to earn some additional cash and contingency to continue to fund their racing programs...for us ASRA races lose money, just like F-USA lost money for Clear Channel..we do it for the rider.  Spectators, there are a few, but too few to mention as a serious source of revenue for ASRA. (We get a 30% increase in credentials at an ASRA event versus the normal CCS race at the same venue.)

As far as Doug Polen and Geoff May, you can blame their contracts with Ducati and Suzuki for allowing them to compete and earn the contingency money. I can guarentee that no matter what number of race requirement we came up with, someone that wants that money will do whatever it takes to get it.

I too am disappointed that neither rider chose to stay and accept their awards, just as I am disappointed in every CCS National Champion that didn't come to the presentation. The riders that had to leave and left speeches with someone else at least had the good graces to recognize the importance of the accomplishment and good sportsmanship.



I am open to any realistic suggestions that can fix these "problems",

[grasshopper]

How honorable is it for Doug Polen and Geoff May to win a CCS race? I've met Doug Polen before and even had a chance to ride with him. I don't understand why (I may regret typing this) he would take money like that from club racers who have worked so long and hard all season to be at that race. How honarable or ethical is that? I've only been racing as an amatuer in the club scene thus far but is that proper racer etiquette?

[George_Linhart]

Nic,

I assume both had their reasons.  Perhaps they needed some extra cash.  Maybe they were told to enter and win the race by their employers.  Maybe, they needed a boost to their ego and did it just because they could.  Its not my place to judge either of them.  They entered the race, they ran the race, they won.

I'd think May understands how tough it is as a privateer relying on meager winnings and contingency earned from racing to fully understand the impact of his decision - given this I hope he didn't do it just to pick up some extra pocket change to blow at the corner bar.  When he was a privateer he always seemed to look down upon the professional contingency chasers as beneth his goals to be a top running AMA professional...  Then again, what's he being paid by M4 and how important is it for him to supplement the salary and performance bonus he is paid in order fully concentrate on being in shape over the winter?  This also begs the question, are the non-factory but well funded teams stuck in a world where they can't win - no chance to actually take championships at the AMA level vs. factory teams and riders yet too good to run at the "Race of Champions" and show what they can do there?

Polen - well, he is in a completely different class than either the referenced AMA team or the professional contingency chasers we see at all the money paying club races.  I don't think he would go into our sandbox and kick sand in the faces of children unless he felt it was his only option.  I don't know if its true but I've heard rumors that unlike many of his counterparts he never really was in the place to bank the big bucks so he needs to worry about supporting his family.  To this end, he has a set of skills and he followed the rules - if he does need the money to support his family is it really unfair that he came out to play with us?

It does suck that neither had the goodwill to make an appearance or say a few words at the awards ceremony.  I'll forgive them for the action on the track, but the lack of good graces makes me think less of both of them

Just my thoughts,

George

[weggieman]

Kevin,

I think eliminating a  lightly attended class and raising fees a bit may not be the bad you think it is. A lot of racers are tired of the mass of classes out there.

Yes, more laps would be a plus and I guess expected due to the fee increase but then cutting laps wouldn't be so drastic when the time is needed due to red flags, etc.