How can we make this better?

[HandleThis66]

Okay, now I don't claim to be a top notch rider (we all know better), someone to expect special treatment, nor a racer that knows everything. I generally like to stay as far away from drama as possible, but I feel I need to post the poor taste in competition, bad judgements and lack of professionalism that I noticed over this past weekend at the Daytona ROC. I rarely post, much less negative posts...but I am worried if I don't say something, no one will, and events like Daytona will not be as much fun for the majority of the racers in the future. I want this to be taken as constructive critcism, not a slam on anyone in particular, or a 'woe is me' pity party. I began with this organization, but am seriously considering not returning due to these concerns.

First off - I was far from impressed with the fact that there were factory supported riders/team competing in CCS races. Who agrees with this? I would like for someone to explain to me the fairness of putting a full blown front running AMA rider/bike, or a two time World Superbike & AMA Superbike champion, in a club race. In my experience (which is limited) these club racers bust their rears (and their pocket books) all year, competing with an organization, to try and gain points/championships/grid positions. They work damn hard to make it to Daytona in hopes of a National Championship and some purse money (which is pocket change to professional racers). What is the benefit of pro racers tromping on the club racers, and collecting the contigency money and national championships? I can't believe that any pro racer would be really excited to get a CCS championship after all their outstanding accomplishments in the AMA or world level racing. How fair is it to run factory supported equipment (with a considerably larger budget) that runs in top level racing, against the grassroots club racer who either builds his own equipment or has a local shop do it on a shoestring budget? DiSalvo, Yates, Duhamel, Bostrom (etc) seem to have no problem pulling off the track to allow these club racers thier well deserved wins. What is the difference in this weekend and those riders? Why were these racers even allowed to enter those races? I'm sure AMA guys wouldn't be stoked if Rossi or Hayden brought their MotoGP program to am AMA event! How can we ensure that the guys that make a valiant effort for a entire season, in one specific organization, get a fair shot at what they have worked for? Can we make this an event where it is 'invite only', based on points, to guarantee competitive racing? I think more involved racers need to brainstorm on this...

Secondly - I was extremely miffed (to say the least) that considerably higher entry fee's are paid for ASRA events, only to get all of the qualifiers taken away. I thought we pay that higher fee for the extra track time of qualifying, and to run a premier national event...or am I mistaken? I don't find it to be very professional to run a national event, expect the competitors to be professional, but set the grids by points and entries because of time constraints. Now I don't have as much of a problem with those same AMA riders competing in the National ASRA events, but I do have a problem with them starting at the back of the grid when there are a number of riders with lesser equipment and experience in front of them. Especially when they could have at least had the opportunity to be properly gridded in qualifying sessions. I understand there were red flag incidents causing a delay in the day...but, is there a way to plan for a time buffer in case of these delays? If the qualifying sessions had been cut down to 10 minutes, it would have taken a half hour to squeeze them in...it only takes one flying lap to get where you need to be. We all know there are delays in racing, but can measures be taken to incorporate all the events on the schedule? Maybe remove the 10 minute 'dog and pony' show on Sunday before every national race, and incorporate qualifying into Sunday morning...or take practice times from Saturday or Sunday practice? I feel that a riders meeting could have been conducted (possibly during lunch), or at least the top points holders could have been paged and asked their advice/opinion on how to meet the projected criteria. There is much room for improvement...

Thirdly - the lack of lap times, untimely grids, inconsistent scoring, and lack of time given to organize a protest were very frustrating. Why was there an inconsistency in posted lap times? I am not overly concerned with this, but the fact that racers were not even allowed on the track without a transponder (even sent back to their pit and missed practice) makes me wonder why it is a double standard. If there is transponder on the bike, there should be a lap time posted.
As for the grid posting...it got a little strenuos commuting across the paddock numerous times, within one race prior to mine, to get a grid position. I didn't notice it so much until Sunday, when I had 6 races to compete in and was trying to get the machines set up, while repeatedly checking on grids. Not all of us have crews to run and do multiple tasks for us...
Onto the inconsistent scoring and protest times. I understand there are always going to be discrepancies in scoring, whether it is electronic or manual. Completely understandable. But, when final race results are posted a half hour after the last race, and we have a half hour to protest it, and the race track security is kicking everyone out of the paddock...how are we supposed to file a protest? Especially on Sunday if we are involved in the last races of the day and have multiple machines/equipment and no crew to load up? I was extremely upset when during the Superbike race on Sunday, the rider in front of me doused me in oil, after grenading his engine, and causing a red flag...only to find out that he had been scored ahead of me in the results! According to the rulebook, he was to be scored at the back of the results (page 17, section 1a & N5). Woe is me, hindsight is 20/20, and I should have been more thorough in my follow up...but it's kind of difficult when I have security hovering over my sponsor and I while we load.
All in all, it was a fun weekend and I congratulate all of the national champions for their stellar riding. I also want to thank all of the corner workers for their outstanding tenacity in the heat...without them we wouldn't be out there. And I also want to thank all of the CCS/ASRA people for continuing to run this event...I just feel that things could have been run smoother (as they have in previous years). This event felt disjointed and thrown together, and I know you guys have a ton of experience. I hope the future brings more cohesion into this organization and that entry numbers go up...but everyone has to pitch in to make it work. Again, please take this as constructive, not destructive.
I am now off my...
Rhiannon Lucente CCS#66 ASRA#66

[weggieman]

I agree 100% about the AMA and ex world champ riders!!! Can't do anything about it because CCS will take anyone's money anytime to include a weekend that  is supposed to be a CHAMPIONSHIP weekend for the regular CCS racers. The almighty $$$ rules.

About the lack of time. Once again.....TOO MANY CLASSES, repeat, TOO MANY CLASSEs, repeat, etc., etc. Again because of money. More classes, more money. I'm still waiting for the Bagger class, it has to be coming soon because there are a lot of people that like to go fast on their baggers and what the hell CCS may as well give them the place to do it.

Also the track rules it's own track. The MOTO-ST endurance was going to run no matter what and not in any shortened form. so, the qualifying got shut down so there would be no conflict at all with the endurance race. Correct? It appears time ran short and CCS racers paid the price so the endurance would run on time and full length.

Like you, I'll get off my    now.

[jer271]

hmmm....just a thought,  have the Roc at the most agreed on track too the club racer so they- dont all show up for the easy $$ and national title.  I know it would never happen but as an example,  geoff may wouldnt show up @ bhf or another regions track.

[J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp]

Honestly I have to say I was pretty upset to say the least when qualifiying was terminated. The only reason I even came to the races was for the ASRA races and when that happened I was ticked. I started from the 3rd row since I did 1 ASRA race weekend earlier this season and got some good points. Now I get really good starts so 3rd row wasn't looking too bad. I was 5th & 3rd in both Superbike & Supersport into turn one. Now if I was gridded where I was running the race would have guranteed have been a whole different outcome for me. I was stuck behind Ryan Pattersen in the superbike race as we were running 2 seconds slower per lap than when I finally got around him since he started on the front row. The front pack got away and I tried too hard to make it all up in the corners and I hit my engine cover and crashed only to remount and still finish 8th.
The extra track time would have been nice too as I didn't get much.

Figure out this one? I got called to registration 5 minutes prior to my 2nd practice session on Friday because I supposedly didn't have an ASRA license? I raced at Road America earlier this season and finished quite well. They said I couldn't ride on the track until I got it taken care of. So I missed my practice session so I could go ALL THE WAY TO THE OTHER SIDE OF THE TRACK? at registration and pay a $25 upgrade fee. I checked when I got home and I have receipts saying I paid for the full ASRA license in the begining of the season?????
So all I had was a whole 4 laps of practice prior to racing the Team Challenge on Friday!

I have to say that  Barney & May were on some very fast equipment out there but so was I. I'm guess I'm not at liberty to say who should be in the races or not. It felt normal to me since I run with these guys at the AMA level. It was nice that the rest of the AMA regulars weren't in it. It is a little frustrating since Barney & May & Beck where there on their AMA stuff with crews backing them. I though Jeff Wood was enough to deal with at a normal ASRA race.  But in all it makes me a better rider and it raises the bar on competittion at ASRA events.

As for those guys racing in the ROC sprint races, I call b.s. I didn't even run those race because I didn't want to take away from anyone elses championship. I suppose those guys were using it for extra track time. They should have still pulled off then.
Well that only shows that:
A. The semi factory team riders are not getting paid enough so they have to race any races they can to make money.
B. They just don't care about anyone but themselves.
C. There are tons of reasons as to why they did it but all in all I really think they should have not been even in those races period.
There should be a CCS regional series rule that states: Anyone who is currently in the top 10 in points in a Professional racing series cannot enter a CCS event.
Even AMA has a rule like that stating you can't practice within a given amount of time if you are in the top 10 in points.
ASRA is there for fast guys. That's the reason it exist. It's CCS's National series and if they want that to grow then anyone should be allowed to run that. I they limit to only certain types of riders the series will never grow.

Its such a hard call when Manufactures are paying out purse money in the ROC events. Hey, who couldn't use and extra couple thousand dollars?

[Jeff]

Jeremy,

So if Geoff May didn't show up, the safety first guys would.  Or Larry Denning, Sean Conrad, Robbie Jensen or any one of another half a dozen cherry-pickers.

It sucks, and it's much like I said before, a pro boxer beating up a group of 3rd graders, but ultimately, that's racing.

Truth is, there will pretty much always be "someone faster" who shows up.  So ride your ass off and enjoy your accomplishments.

I'll tell you what, I ran my fastest laps EVER at BHF in a middleweight race this year.  What did those 12's get me?  7th place out of 9...  7th freaking place for a race of all low 13's, high 12's...  In most heavyweight races or GTO, those times would put me on the podium...

[HandleThis66]

I hate comparing organizations...but another very successful and professional racing association, that I ran this year, put on a final event (just like the ROC) and they require that you are in a top percentage of points to even get an invite to the final! Fully preventing anyone that hasn't raced with the organization to just enter on a whim. I myself made sure I competed in at least one CCS/ASRA weekend this year. I understand the $ side of it, but there has to be a balance between business practices and fair/ethical racing...or the entry numbers will considerably drop (or so a few racers mentioned this weekend).
Also, I don't fully understand the necessity of the 'dog and pony' show prior to the ASRA races. AMA does that for media/television purposes. This could be used as the time buffer for qualifiers, considering qualifying was already only 12 minutes per session...cut qualifying to 10 minutes (the same as the count down clock for pre-race grid) and squeak them in right after lunch. Or at least take practice times, considering we were not even allowed on the track without our transponder. I got screwed on practice time for that one...had to go all the way up to my garage to retrieve it with no more time left in practice when I came back (woe is me, no biggie). Again, hate to compare organizations...but yet a different racing association (not the one mentioned earlier) had time constraints this year, had a riders meeting, and still managed to shuffle enough to squeeze in qualifying and all of the races.
I think Daytona is a great venue for the ROC, just that things need to be revised a bit. Like Gordie stated

TOO MANY CLASSES

I only bring this up as I have seen similar discrepancies in other racing associations, and they were addressed efficiently. I only hope that positive changes can be implemented to make events better for everyone. I know not everyone can be pleased, but a majority can be...
As for Denning, Jensen, Conrad, Farrell...they build their own bikes, are not factory supported, nor have a salary other than contingency! They work hard, ride hard and are talented. Not too much of a problem with them out there as they are running thier own one man programs. That is racing! But FACTORY SUPPORTED BIKES and WORLD SUPERBIKE CHAMPIONS STILL ON DUCATI PAYROLL have no business in a CCS race. And yes, Jensen and Denning were out there this weekend...Conrad would have been if it weren't for a broken Tibia. Jensen deserves that Ducati money, not Polen...that is his only paycheck.
There will always be someone faster, yes...but give the CCS guys a break and let them dice it out amongst themselves, not behind pro racers. I agree with Farrell...great idea.

[steelcityracer]

Handlethiss66, the only problem with your logic concerning the gnf is that the top guys could enter just one regional, win, and get an invite to RA

[russ1962]

Sheeeesh!!!  Alright already! 

I promise I won't run another CCS race this year.  You kids can have all that purse money.

Wow, all ya had to do was ask.

Russ

(#47, with NO top 10 finishes, EVER)

[Jeff]

Russ!  Check your email :-)

[russ1962]

Jeff, I checked it.

Nuthin in there cept MILF Hunter emails, and V1AGR4 messages.

[Jeff]

grrr.. ugh.  I replied to you a couple of times in your yahoo acct. 

Shoot me a good address for you or call me 262-993-5416

Thanks!

[jer271]

jeff, i was only meaning there could be alot less cherry pickers thats all, there really is no solution to this your right other than an invite only wich in turn would keep our grids a little higher through out the year