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??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???

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rwracer

??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« on: August 18, 2006, 10:58:06 am »
First let me follow suit and preface my comments with how much I enjoy racing with CCS, definately one of the most fun and enjoyable organizations to race with I've found.  And other than the usual gripes about selected registration issues this is probably the only other real complaint that I have.

That said, it appears that I may be the only one with this concern and as I have no idea what all of the behind-the-scenes thought processes or considerations are I will simply phrase this as a request for enlightenment....

As I look over the schedule for the upcoming race at Summit Shenandoah, I see that the MW, HW and UL classes are once again all being run back-to-back.  For many of us running these classes at least one bike change is involved and often there is barely enough time to catch your breath and get a drink of water before you head to the next grid, much less implement a bike change (and yes I know you can use the hotpit area but that's not much of a "cool-down"   :biggrin:).

So can someone please explain to me the necessity for always/often running these classes back-to-back, why some of the other classses with a much lower likelihood of rider overlap can't be interjected to provide a break (like between HW and UL), wouldn't splitting these classes up a bit make things safer for the riders, esepcially the amateurs?

I'm sure all due consideration was given, I'd just like to understand why these classes are almost always chosen to run back-to-back.

Thanks in advance for your time.

 8)
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Eric Kelcher

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Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2006, 01:13:50 pm »
natural progression up is  up modification level then displacement level IE LSS to LSB to LGP-MSS-MSB-MGP-HSS-HSB-USS-USB-UGP 

you will find that very rarely are these back to back. Consideration is also made to avoid the changeover of equipment from SS to SB/GP legal (ie wheel/tire changes or other common easy swaps that are made on one machine to run up in modification level.
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Eric Kelcher
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rwracer

Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2006, 01:26:25 pm »
natural progression up is  up modification level then displacement level IE LSS to LSB to LGP-MSS-MSB-MGP-HSS-HSB-USS-USB-UGP 

you will find that very rarely are these back to back. Consideration is also made to avoid the changeover of equipment from SS to SB/GP legal (ie wheel/tire changes or other common easy swaps that are made on one machine to run up in modification level.

I'm not sure why you would say back-to-back is rare because our experience this year is that it's pretty much always that way.  In fact, I think that's pretty much what's happening every race from here on out to and including the ROC.

Could you not , for example, flip-flop LW SuperSport and UL SuperSport at Shenandoah and provide the needed break?  Are there alot of riders that race both of those classes plus the MW and HW classes?

Again, just wondering.  Thanks for taking the time Eric.
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Eric Kelcher

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Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2006, 02:43:36 pm »
KWracer look at my post again, there are zero back-back at the tracks you mention per natural progression. All one step progressions are at least two races seperated and all races are at least two (most are at least 3)steps up from the race prior.
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Eric Kelcher
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rwracer

Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2006, 03:14:02 pm »
KWracer look at my post again, there are zero back-back at the tracks you mention per natural progression. All one step progressions are at least two races seperated and all races are at least two (most are at least 3)steps up from the race prior.


You're right, I'm definitely missing something.  All I can see on the Shenandoah schedule (and beyond) is that I have races 5,6,7 back-to-back and races 15,16,17 back-to-back with no race or break in between.

Am I looking at it wrong?  Are you looking at it from the Am perspective?
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PJ721

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Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2006, 08:39:40 pm »
gonna have to agree with Eric.......

if you are running more than one bike...or running up a class with a bike..there is no way you can expect CCS to set
the schedule to avoid every racer's (or in this case yours) back to back situation...

for Shenandoah the classes go up
races 5 6 7 are
5. Middleweight SuperSport (Am)
6. Heavyweight SuperSport (Ex & Am)
7. Unlimited SuperSport (Ex & Am)
and
15. Heavyweight SuperBike (Ex & Am)
16. Middleweight GP (Ex & Am)
17. Unlimited SuperBike (Ex & Am)
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Paul Castiglia
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rwracer

Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2006, 12:30:04 pm »
Yes thank you for your help, and sincerely thank you for your sincerity, but I did figure out how to read a schedule some time ago.
My guess is that having a rider race his 600 in both the MW and HW classes is not something new nor even in all 3 as many riders do.  In fact, if you look carefully you will notice that CCS pretty much went out of their way to insure that the Experts did not have 3 or more back-to-back races.  My thought is that it would better serve the racing community to instead let the experienced Experts do the 3 back-to-backs rather than the inexperienced Amateurs.  Ultimately that is where I was going I was just trying to do it as nicely and non-controversially as possible by simply suggesting that they consider some very, very easy changes like flip-flopping 7 & 8 and also 17 & 18.
Thank you for everyone's consideration.
And at this point I should also point out that it was the onsite race officials at one of the last races who recommended that I take this route... can't really say it has worked out all that well yet.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2006, 12:34:44 pm by kwracer »
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Woofentino Pugrossi

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Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2006, 06:36:42 pm »
Yep flip flop 2 races and then someone else has to run back to back.

Heres a hint. Tell the grid marshall that you are running back to backs and they will usually try to get you a couple mins to gas up and get a quick drink before they release riders from pit out. We do this all the time here and its never been a problem.
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Rob
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rwracer

Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2006, 09:36:05 am »
Heres a hint. Tell the grid marshall that you are running back to backs and they will usually try to get you a couple mins to gas up and get a quick drink before they release riders from pit out. We do this all the time here and its never been a problem.


Yep, tried it, great idea, but almost never works in actual practice.

In any case, fantastic job with the revamped schedule Eric, really, I mean it, way to go.

 :thumb:
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JBraun

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Re: ??? RACE ORDER QUESTIONS ???
« Reply #9 on: September 14, 2006, 10:05:11 am »
  In fact, if you look carefully you will notice that CCS pretty much went out of their way to insure that the Experts did not have 3 or more back-to-back races.  My thought is that it would better serve the racing community to instead let the experienced Experts do the 3 back-to-backs rather than the inexperienced Amateurs. 
It's the opposite here in the MW.
When I was an amateur I could run ten races in a weekend and not have any back to backs. Now, as an expert, I'll have back to back several times in one weekend.
I think they have it backwards, the schedule should favor the experts.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2006, 03:51:04 pm by JBraun »
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