I had a front row seat for the crash in the braking zone for 14 that brought out the red flag.
Looked pretty harsh, both riders ok?
That was me and Aaron, I posted up some about it here http://www.ccsforum.com/index.php/topic,20878.0.html
Would you mind sharing what happened from your perspective? It happened so fast, all I really remember is seeing Aaron's tail section start to rise up and thinking "oh shit." Next thing I know I was in the air for about 2 or 3 seconds doing flips and thinking "man this is not going to end well."
I got lucky and ended up with very minor injuries, 2 sprained and bruised up ankles, bruises all over my right leg and hip is in so much pain that I can barely walk, but the med staff said that nothing was broken.
I was the pokey expert #18, that you guys passed in or around T12. As I was coming out of 13, I think I saw your bike impact Aarons and endo, flipping you up into the air. Maybe your brake lever slammed into Aaron's bike?
As soon as I saw the crash and how much air you caught, I was pretty sure the red flag was on the way out. I'm glad your injuries weren't too severe. I hope you both make as quick a recovery as possible.
My brother caught the crash. The pictures are crazy,
Jon you are sooo high, I can't believe you walked away from it. Sorry for Aaron, I hope he is doing ok.
I'll post some pics when I get a a chance.
There's pics of that crash sequence? Holy crap, I can't wait to see them, now those are pics I will be buying
It was probably one of the most amazing things I've seen at the track! I took my eye off the camera as you guys came up the hill. I remember you had what seemed like a huge run on Aaron, and thought you were gonna fly right past him. Then I heard someones engine rev high...And you hit his rear tire directly(I believe), thats when I started shooting. The first pics aren't tack sharp :wtf:, but show how amazing it was you walked away! There are a bunch of other pics, but just gonna post a few here.
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gron4.com%2Fexamples%2Fa001.jpg&hash=4c36da50048d39d10a6c77c0ffef1831570eb9c0)
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(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gron4.com%2Fexamples%2Fc001.jpg&hash=7ffd776a79b45ff1d9184c548855bad34864bf88)
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gron4.com%2Fexamples%2Fd001.jpg&hash=3eb446434563b246ec47f0c51a7801d826efa540)
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gron4.com%2Fexamples%2Fe001.jpg&hash=307cb27d4e151eacfe334fa5a0e002ccbcd3d894)
WOW! Gu, you are soooo lucky!
heal fast Bappe!
What a great ad!
"Nothing washes the shit out of your leathers like a Kohler faucet!"
"Cleaning your roadrash since 1914, Kohler!"
and so many more... LOL... Glad y'all made it through little worse for the wear.
Wow....spectacular crash pics....the last one is a bit gut wrenching seeing Aaron's leg like that though.
Heal up fast guys
Wow! Heal up both of you.....
Great shots Gron!
Quote from: JonGu on July 07, 2008, 01:36:16 PM
There's pics of that crash sequence? Holy crap, I can't wait to see them, now those are pics I will be buying
Holly shit Jon, You are very lucky. How is the other rider?
It may be a small consolation prize, but I know Aaron appreciates good photog work. Thanks for sharing.
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!
wow....wow....wow
talk about turning a guy out the hard way!
that would make the crash page in any rag.
Real glad you guy's are ok and going to be ok
Wow impressive. & that was the third guy Gu hit this weekend!!
3rd? Really? I remember Paul Onley bumping into my rear in race 4 on Sunday (from the sound of it, I thought I was past him but actually wasn't and moved over into his line on the brakes) but can't remember a 3rd incident where I made contact w/ anyone. Unless you are counting my big endo in turn 5 on Friday of course, but that was all me
Man sucks to see anyone crash... But I have to say...Awesome pictures!!
Hope you two have a speedy recovery!!!
So you took out three people racing this weekend - WTF - are you kidding?
Lol no, if I took out 3 people I'd go sell all my shit and give the whole thing up. I did take Aaron out obviously from this post. Paul and I bumped but it was pretty gentle (at least from my perspective) and he still made the corner w/o having to run off, and as far as a 3rd incident... I honestly don't have a clue what we are talking about.
I did have an unusually bad weekend as far as crashing goes. Took myself out on Friday GTL with a huge endo, and then I go and run into Aaron on Sunday. In about 30-40 races so far this season, these have been my only real legitimate crashes.
I did have 3 more crashes earlier in the season - 1 where I dropped it on the first lap of practice because I stupidly went out on a 3 yr old takeoff after putting a new front end on my SV and not changing the tire, barely leaned over 1 degrees before it dropped at like 20mph. 2nd, I looped the bike on the start and dropped it. 3rd crash of the year the brake fluid boiled and locked up my brakes on the SV. But none of these were really racing crashes the way my 2 crashes at RA were. To go from fairly incident free to crashing myself out twice a weekend really is a big shock.
Jon and I bumped going into 6, he took me on the brakes on the inside and then moved over on me to set up for the corner. This happened at the crest and my back wheel was very light so the bump set me into a weave which I couldn't stop in time to turn in so I had to turn in rather late but I did make the corner. Jon and I talked about it later and we're both good with the way we left it.
Hawk and Jon,
Good to know you two were on the spot to talk about it post-race and leave it as racing. Knowing both of you, I would expect you to handle it in a 1st class manner, like you did! :thumb:
Rick
I've been racing around Jon all year, and I've never felt like he was doing anything out of line.. looks like it was a bad weekend for him. Moreso for Aaron though. Heal quick buddy. Get some of that bone stuff Super's been talking about. It worked great for my elbow.
Phil
Okay, I've got to call bull shit here. Jon I'm sorry - you're a good guy around the paddock, but you're a f*cking a$$ on the track. I know of a few folks who called bull shit on the kind of passing you do in a club race, and I called you to the mat on it face-to-face before. This is club racing, and most of us would rather go to work on Monday than get crashed out racing for a $5 plaque. Shit like diving inside someone and taking their line at the apex or cutting across another riders wheel is just not good racing, whether it's a money event expert level race or a lightweight AM event.
To have ass packed Aaron hard enough to send your bikes flying like that is not something that should have happened from him braking a bit early for a corner. I know you're sorry for what happened, but you're dangerous on the track and need to back things off a bit. Better to finish down a place than to not finish and take out another racer in the process.
Don't know Aaron, but my best wishes to him for a speedy recovery.
Sweet 8lb 7oz baby Jesus - That looks F-ing horrific!
Glad everyone is ok, or will be.
I hope that whatever lessons can be learned - have been
wow
Wow ok... let me get the straight...
Passing someone on the inside on the brakes is not cool because block passing is too aggressive
Passing someone on the inside when they take a wider line is not cool because stuff passing is too aggressive
Passing someone on the outside on the brakes and then turning in in front of them is not cool because chopping off their front wheel is too aggressive
Passing someone on the outside midcorner is not cool because it forces them to roll off, takes away their drive and is too aggressive
Following someone closely to draft them is not cool because you might crash into them if they mess up
Well, I thought we were racing, but I guess I was wrong. I didn't realize we were trying to follow NESBA's Beginner group passing rules. I'd like to be that nice, but not everyone has the benefit of an extra 25hp over their competition to keep the passing on the straights.
Passing in the corners during a race is fine as long as you keep it clean ...
Quote from: Noidly1 on July 09, 2008, 05:59:59 PM
Passing in the corners during a race is fine as long as you keep it clean ...
thanks for clearing that up.
Ohh, and I think there are 3 kinds of clean passing, CLEAN, clean, and
clean. For me, CLEAN is for trackdays, where you dont really trust who you are passing, especially if they are non racers. You know the type, blow bye passes in the braking zones, squaring corners off and coming underneath while the slower rider is headed torwards the curb etc.. Clean is for your every day racing, running rear to mid of the pack at a simple regional. Things may get a little tight here and there, but all in all no one is in too much danger of contact or crashing into someone else. Then there is
clean passing which is reserved for front of the pack, making a pass that really matters when you need to make something stick. When your running at the front of the pack, especially when you are down on horsepower, sometimes you just need to stick it under someone to get the pass done. When you have 3 guys running within the same second per lap, super clean stuff isnt always available. Sounds like maybe Jon is pulling some
clean passes when clean would do, but all in all its racing not badmitten, and while his stuff sounds agressive, nothing sounds out of place. When you get out of the lw am and have to deal with the big boys up front, or the big boys coming from behind to get up front you need to be comfortable with stuff you may not think is clean enough.
Anyway, if anyone actually understood that, its my two cents.
Ben, just one question. How much contact do you consider acceptable? Up front at a regional club race?
My view on passing is along these lines: Passing is Passing(Riding in control) - If you T-Bone someone - That isn't passing(not in control) - That's riding like a moran. If you intentionally ride like a moran - You shouldn't be racing....
This is not at all directed toward anyone - I know both Jon and Aaron pretty good - I am just making a generalized statement....
I may look at this passing thing differently then most - If I trust someone that I am racing with - I expect them to pass me close - inside - Outside and if they have been at this sport for a while - they may even do some things that I haven't seen......
Coming from Motocross - I am used to close aggressive passes... I make em' and I hope not to offend anyone - But it is what it is.....
Allot of people get upset with Nate Kern for the passes he makes - and I have raced with Nate and found nothing that he did uncalled for.... Actually I made some sketchy passes on him - and we are still good friends.....
2 Cents from me - weather you wanted it or not :)
Quote from: HAWK on July 09, 2008, 06:59:07 PM
Ben, just one question. How much contact do you consider acceptable? Up front at a regional club race?
My 2 cents:
You can contact me all you want, as long as you don't punt me or knock me down. Hell, smack me on the ass as you (try to) go by; we'll have a good laugh about it afterwards.
I've been ass-packed before, and I was pissed as all hell, but it was at a track day, and I was rider coaching to boot. It cost me over 10 grand between lost wages, medical bills, and equipment damages. I was considerably less than pleased, but there is a huge difference between being taken out by an intermediate idiot at a track day and making contact during a race. I know that when I'm out there, I'm out there with one goal; to try and win (hasn't happened yet..) I try to pass nice, and I have some motor, so I'm usually able to do it, but I still have no prob whatsoever showing up at the apex of a slower corner and taking a line. And if someone has the cojones to do the same to me, I usually congratulate them privately, in my helmet, and in person after the race, because that's the whole point, isn't it?
Having said that, I wouldn't be totally thrilled if I were totally steamrolled out there, but it's a risky sport, and I accept those risks. When I'm no longer willing to do so, I'll take up golf. If I ever had (have) an incident with any of you guys, I think I'd have to just chalk it up to good racing. I respect your abilities, but more importantly, I respect your desire to win. I also acknowledge the potential for mistakes and mishaps.I don't know Aaron, but I've known Jon for years, and while he may or may not be pushing a little hard for the overall championship, he's a good guy, and a very good rider. I'd race him anytime, and feel completely comfortable about it.
Having said all that, best wishes and speedy recovery to both Aaron and Jon.
Oh, and I'm hoping I ride well enough in a few weeks that I'll be so far in the lead I won't even have to worry about you maniacs..
I have no problem with agressive passes, Jon took my line away a couple times at MAM and I never even gave it a second thought. At RA last weekend however he came up next to me on the inside on the brakes into 6, He says he thought he was past me (and I believe he thought he was). He then moved over on me to get to the outside to start his turn. I was on the brakes with my rear wheel very light if not off the ground, I couldn't stop any harder and all I had to my right was grass. When he bumped me it put me into a rather nasty weave. If he had simply turned in fron the line he was on when he passed me then everything would have been fine, it was the move to the right when he made contact that was too much. Jon and I had a very calm constructive conversation later and I would like to believe he will be a little more careful next time but I don't think that a pass like that is acceptable.
Quote from: JonGu on July 09, 2008, 02:30:33 PM
Wow ok... let me get the straight...
Passing someone on the inside on the brakes is not cool because block passing is too aggressive
Passing someone on the inside when they take a wider line is not cool because stuff passing is too aggressive
Passing someone on the outside on the brakes and then turning in in front of them is not cool because chopping off their front wheel is too aggressive
Passing someone on the outside midcorner is not cool because it forces them to roll off, takes away their drive and is too aggressive
Overall what you're saying is fine, and it's what racing is all about.
The difference comes in whether you put both of you at risk when you use a passing maneuver that's going to bring you into hard contact if the other rider doesn't see you and change their line appropriately, like cutting (not just cutting across) someone's wheel or passing on the inside using a line that puts you right on top of the other rider at the apex. I don't know of too many people who get stood up at the apex and think of it as a clean race pass. And maybe I'm misjudging the relative speeds, but to close on someone with enough speed differential to get things cartwheeling like they did seems like something other than aggressive racing.
I've got no issues with close racing and some aggressive leaning on riders (who know one another's race styles), and I've had a couple unintentional contacts in the past myself. But wreckless aggression as a recurring theme that draws comments and ends with something like this is just unfortunate and unneccesary.
I like Ben's description, and would think clean (no italics) probably does it midpack in a MW race or in a loose 2-rider dice for 3rd in a LW race
But hey, I'm just a slow old guy with too big of a collection of plates and screws in me to have any remaining sense of relativity.
Quote from: HAWK on July 09, 2008, 08:37:20 PM
I have no problem with agressive passes, Jon took my line away a couple times at MAM and I never even gave it a second thought. At RA last weekend however he came up next to me on the inside on the brakes into 6, He says he thought he was past me (and I believe he thought he was). He then moved over on me to get to the outside to start his turn. I was on the brakes with my rear wheel very light if not off the ground, I couldn't stop any harder and all I had to my right was grass. When he bumped me it put me into a rather nasty weave. If he had simply turned in fron the line he was on when he passed me then everything would have been fine, it was the move to the right when he made contact that was too much. Jon and I had a very calm constructive conversation later and I would like to believe he will be a little more careful next time but I don't think that a pass like that is acceptable.
Fair enough.
I paid for a Shadow Video @ BHF last fall, and I noticed that a couple of times during the session, I'd outbrake another rider into a corner at what I thought was a fast enough pace, only to then move over into their line (rather a bit too close) to set up for the entry. Never realized it until I saw myself on the vid. Oh well. Still, it's more fun to be dicing it out than riding around alone...
Oh, and my post wasn't directed at you, Paul. Just had to butt in..
Quote from: Farmboy on July 09, 2008, 09:53:35 PM
Fair enough.
I paid for a Shadow Video @ BHF last fall, and I noticed that a couple of times during the session, I'd outbrake another rider into a corner at what I thought was a fast enough pace, only to then move over into their line (rather a bit too close) to set up for the entry. Never realized it until I saw myself on the vid. Oh well. Still, it's more fun to be dicing it out than riding around alone...
And that is exactly why I talked to Jon, when it happened I figured he didn't know I was still there. Sometimes we just don't know how close things get so like I said, I want to believe that Jon will take our conversation to heart and not squeeze someone off the track. I think Jon and I are good with how things were left.
Quote from: HAWK on July 09, 2008, 06:59:07 PM
Ben, just one question. How much contact do you consider acceptable? Up front at a regional club race?
In my opinion it depends on where you are on the track and the corner. Lets say we are at blackhawk, going into the kink before the carousel is not a good time to put a knee or elbow or upper fairing under someone. However, at a track like road america, I have no problem putting an elbow or knee or bodywork out on the way into five to let the guy know im taking that spot, i know he will be able to run an outside line through that corner, and if it goes bad for him he will get stuck on the rumble strips and ill put some space on him and he wont be much worse for the wear. And if it really goes bad for him and he gets scared or cant make the corner by his own choice then he has plenty of run off. Last year exiting T5 at road atlanta I actually put my head on a competitors front number plate as he tried to drive me out of the corner, the goal being to spook him juts enough to close the throttle for the instant i needed to get over the wheelie hill first, which gauranteed the drive onto the back straight and hopefully the win. Ive been hit going into plenty of corners and it has never really bothered me much, coming from the dirt that stuff just doesnt get in my head. Hell this past weekend a guy pulled a dive bomb on me on the way into canada corner then just before the apex as I started to pitch it in late he decided he couldnt make the corner, stood it up and took my front axle for a ride on his swingarm. was it a sketchy move? hell yeah, was it unnecesary being the first practice session of the day? sure. But all in all im at the race track running as hard as I can, and if a guy gets past me, he gets past me no matter how he did it, as long as im not on the ground im ok, and if I am then it sucks, but ill get over it. If you have a problem with the way a guy is riding talk to him at the track and you will get a much better response. When I started racing I was on a slow bike, so I did alot of late late brake passing, all in all it was a little too aggressive. My now good buddy Guy Bartz came over and jumped my shit, while I was pissed about it for a while I realized he was probably right and changed the way I ride because of it. My number one rule on the track is that if im going to pull an asshole pass, really stuff someone, or do something of the sort and its not the last lap, I had better be able to get away from them, as in check out and not have to deal with them again. Otherwise your just being a dick pulling stuff pass after stuff pass for a whole race.
Quote from: JonGu on July 09, 2008, 02:30:33 PM
Well, I thought we were racing, but I guess I was wrong. I didn't realize we were trying to follow NESBA's Beginner group passing rules. I'd like to be that nice, but not everyone has the benefit of an extra 25hp over their competition to keep the passing on the straights.
Just noticed this, so for the record I don't think that running a top 4 overall lightweight pace at your middleweight track times represents a pace that would have passing only on the straights. So on my occassion to dice with you when I was dog-shit tired at the end of the day and knew I was way off the pace I decided to not have you stand me up at the apex a third time and let you stay ahead on the straights.
But, the bike's for sale and that 25hp edge could be all yours for the right price.
Paul definitely has something to be upset about for that pass and I acknowledge that and am glad he came to me and talked about it the way he did, very cool and good of him. From his perspective, I moved over on him while passing on the inside of 6. From my perspective, I passed him on the exit of turn 5 and went to turn in for 6 and felt a hit on my rear. I actually thought to myself "wtf, that dude is outta control, why would he bump me like that after I already got him." I didn't realize until he talked to me that I didn't complete the pass out of 5 and that we were actually going up the hill side by side when I moved over on him. I didn't see Paul because I was slightly ahead and already looking at the corner entrance and realize now that I should have paid more attention before changing my line. I'd like to think it's a racing incident and not just reckless riding, but I'm glad I got talked to about it and did learn something from it.
As for the cartwheeling incident well... Aaron and I also talked about it and it seems like it was another unfortunate racing incident. He didn't just brake a little early, he told me that he accidentally downshifted and that's why he slowed down so early. In the video he was actually pulling me when you hear his bike all of a sudden start to rev high. I was racing Aaron all weekend (the last race he beat me by like 3 feet, and even slapped my leg on the straight once :) ) and know pretty well where he brakes for that corner so I felt quite confident following him in, but then we ended up colliding. It's definitely not his fault and I'm not trying to say that it's not my fault either, I mean there are so many things I could have done differently (like try to take him on the brakes on the inside for example)
And as for me and Dan with the passes at MAM, I never thought they were too aggressive but can see how you might have been upset about it. I'll just say this... the few times I passed you and stood you up, there was about 3-4 feet of space inbetween us, on the borderline of being too close, but if you didn't expect it I can see why it spooked ya. As for why I passed there instead of on the brakes earlier well... you pulled such a huge freaking gap on the straights that it took me over half a lap to make it back up every time. That bike is sweet! (wishing I could afford it and that it wasn't carbed) I was hoping to get by you - knowing that you would repass me on the straights, but that I'd close the gap enough that I might be able to outbrake you earlier in the lap instead of at turn 10. But if you had taken tighter more defensive lines instead of swooping way out wide then there is no way I could have even attempted to go up the inside of ya in the right hand part of that chicane.
I actually hate that the passes upset ya and you talking to me made me think long and hard - enough that I ended up settling for a couple of crappy middleweight finishes the next round because I didn't wanna piss someone else off by stuffing them even though they were going a full second slower than me. I realized I was shooting myself in the foot though by doing that and that the goals of winning an overall regional championship and riding nice and not pissing off anyone are incompatible goals.
As for how close I feel is comfortable in a pass... ask Jay Smith. On the last lap of a LW race, I stuffed him in the bus stop and then one corner later he divebombed me on the inside of turn 5 at Blackhawk and freaked the shit outta me but instead of standing up, I rested my elbow on his knee and fairing while we went through that corner. This is after 2 or 3 laps of constant position changes. He won because I just couldn't safely pass him on the last corner. The next time we saw each other we agreed that it was the best fucking race we've ever experienced and coolest thing in the world and that we were both cool with each other.
Actually, at this point I'm not even sure what the point of this post is anymore. I'm just bored and should probably stay away from the keyboard before I piss off anyone else lol
Quote from: Cyklracer on July 09, 2008, 10:33:53 PM
Just noticed this, so for the record I don't think that running a top 4 overall lightweight pace at your middleweight track times represents a pace that would have passing only on the straights. So on my occassion to dice with you when I was dog-shit tired at the end of the day and knew I was way off the pace I decided to not have you stand me up at the apex a third time and let you stay ahead on the straights.
But, the bike's for sale and that 25hp edge could be all yours for the right price.
lol sorry for the sarcasm and the cheap jab, it was a bit out of line and :jerkoff: douchebaggy (is that a real word?) of me.
Like I said in my post above, I'm going for overall regional champ and I'm learning that winning that title doesn't mean riding faster than everyone else. It's more of an endurance race and the winner is the guy who survives the most number of races and manages to finish reasonably well. That means that I can't be a bonehead and pull too many idiot maneuvers so I do try to take in and learn a little bit from every situation. Reading all these posts is certainly helping me out :thumb:
Quotebut not everyone has the benefit of an extra 25hp over their competition to keep the passing on the straights.
Ahh you might want to talk to Team Appel about this they know this trick about using a 750 as a.... :kicknuts:
Quote from: JonGu on July 09, 2008, 11:00:01 PM
As for how close I feel is comfortable in a pass... ask Jay Smith. On the last lap of a LW race, I stuffed him in the bus stop and then one corner later he divebombed me on the inside of turn 5 at Blackhawk and freaked the shit outta me but instead of standing up, I rested my elbow on his knee and fairing while we went through that corner. This is after 2 or 3 laps of constant position changes. He won because I just couldn't safely pass him on the last corner. The next time we saw each other we agreed that it was the best fucking race we've ever experienced and coolest thing in the world and that we were both cool with each other.
Actually, at this point I'm not even sure what the point of this post is anymore. I'm just bored and should probably stay away from the keyboard before I piss off anyone else lol
Sounds awesome, and definitely sounds like good racing to me.
FYI, staying away from the keyboard is incompatible with recuperation. You may as well piss people off in here, too; you're already one of the most, if not THE most, polarizing riders this year..
Quote from: d!ll on July 09, 2008, 11:10:43 PM
Ahh you might want to talk to Team Appel about this they know this trick about .... :kicknuts:
Doh! hahaha I don't want to turn this into a commentary on the status of LW racing, but why why why do people spend so much money on a freaking SV motor? It's a freaking commuter bike for gods sake, and LW racing is suppose to be a cheap entry into the sport! As it stands, it costs more to own a competitive LW bike than it does to own a competitive MW bike, and that is just ridiculous to me. Seriously, how many motors has Guy, Hawk, Hernan, Ed Key or Joel Spalding blown? And how many has Erik Rodriguez blown? I'll take my bone stock SV motor w/ nothing but a power commander and full pipe any day even if it means I'll never even make top 5 in an expert LW race. That's the same motor that I ran for a full 25 minute GT race with no coolant - DOH! not good for overall power for sure, especially when I can't even stay in touch with Roy's bone stock 1st gen bike!
Quote from: Farmboy on July 09, 2008, 11:13:00 PM
FYI, staying away from the keyboard is incompatible with recuperation. You may as well piss people off in here, too; you're already one of the most, if not THE most, polarizing riders this year..
It's an honor lol... it seems to be a recurring theme with the NESBA-aligned riders who go for overall championships. Let's see... Marshall pissed off plenty of people in 06, Dustin caused quite a stir in 07, and now I'm stirring the pot in 08. I'm not putting myself in their category though, I'm slow and have to sandbag my way to the top by running LW races for championship points :P
Quote from: JonGu on July 09, 2008, 11:27:48 PM
I'm slow and have to sandbag my way to the top by running LW races for championship points :P
Quote from: JonGu on July 09, 2008, 11:21:25 PM
Doh! hahaha I don't want to turn this into a commentary on the status of LW racing, but why why why do people spend so much money on a freaking SV motor? It's a freaking commuter bike for gods sake, and LW racing is suppose to be a cheap entry into the sport! As it stands, it costs more to own a competitive LW bike than it does to own a competitive MW bike, and that is just ridiculous to me. Seriously, how many motors has Guy, Hawk, Hernan, Ed Key or Joel Spalding blown? And how many has Erik Rodriguez blown? I'll take my bone stock SV motor w/ nothing but a power commander and full pipe any day even if it means I'll never even make top 5 in an expert LW race.
Good plan, Jon.....get in good with the other classes by pissing off the LW guys :err:
Sounds like Kyle and I missed all the fun at RA...
Heal up quickly everyone and we will hopefully see you soon!!!
BTW...let us know what ya'all need as you put your bikes back together :biggrin:
Oh no. No no no... you guys with your pretty paint and your fancy stickers... that R6 was the best looking bike I ever owned and look how quickly it turned to hell. From now on its primer bikes with yellow duct tape number plates for me :lmao:
Quote from: JonGu on July 09, 2008, 11:40:11 PM
Oh no. No no no... you guys with your pretty paint and your fancy stickers... that R6 was the best looking bike I ever owned and look how quickly it turned to hell. From now on its primer bikes with yellow duct tape number plates for me :lmao:
Nahh...you're lookin' at all wrong....
A clean, sharp bike
INSPIRES confidence.... :thumb:
Quote from: Cyklracer on July 09, 2008, 03:56:45 AM
Okay, I've got to call bull shit here. Jon I'm sorry - you're a good guy around the paddock, but you're a f*cking a$$ on the track.
I had a race with Jon Gu on Saturday in LWGP where he and I must have passed each other 10 times. I never felt for a moment Jon was making any bad passes or not holding his line when I was passing. I made a very late brake into Canada trying to pile on some distance and he maintained his line through without reacting to my nearly leaving the track. Was a very competitive race and probably frustrating as hell for him, but I did not get the sense he was anything other than a racer on the track. I actually thought if anything that he had a great sense of humor when he waved me past on the long straight.
I don't want to offend anyone here, but I see a lot of AM racers talking about what is and what isn't clean passing. As a first year expert, I've been passed more closely this year than I was probably all year last year. But, at the same time, I felt that those passes were clean and none of them spooked me. I'm pretty comfortable with another bike 8 inches or so away from me. And my experience so far says that the guys around me can put their bike in that space without taking my line from me.
I've been on both ends of passes that were a little sketchy. I passed a friend of mine last year at the apex of T10 at Summit. My intention was to pass him on the brakes, but he managed to get on the brakes later than he had the previous 2 laps. By that point it was way too late for me to back out of the pass. My options were to keep trail braking and probably T bone him at the apex, or let off the brakes and beat him to the apex. He had to change his line, but I got there early enough that he was able to react. In the end, since I beat him to the apex, I think it was a clean pass. When I apologized after the race for the pass, he said it was perfectly clean. I have to agree. If you're at the apex first, and in time for the other rider to see you there, you did your job.
I had someone pass me just before the apex of T4 at Summit last year. I REALLY didn't expect him to be there, but he was there early enough that I could adjust my line and still make the turn, so I called it a clean pass. Pretty ballsy, but clean.
As for moving over on someone while on the brakes, I usually try to make my "lane changes" while I'm on the gas setting up for a turn if at all possible. That allows the other rider, if they're still beside you (which is sometimes hard to determine if you can't actually see them) to check up or roll off the throttle in order to avoid contact. Or, they can hold their position if they want to keep fighting for it. And I'm not suggesting trying to push someone off, but making that move on the gas gives the other rider more options to avoid if they're still there.
Quote from: rogers1323 on July 10, 2008, 03:15:34 AM
I don't want to offend anyone here,
Hah. Not to worry, you are posting up in a GuTopic, where Jon reserves the sole right to offend wantonly and willfully, and exercises said right extensively and gleefully.
Quote from: Farmboy on July 10, 2008, 09:25:26 AM
Hah. Not to worry, you are posting up in a GuTopic, where Jon reserves the sole right to offend wantonly and willfully, and exercises said right extensively and gleefully.
Ohh... well in that case... Jim, I don't want to talk to you no more, you empty headed animal food trough wiper! I fart in your general direction! Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!
Oh, and you crash way too much! Stop it! Don't you realize you need to preserve your body for Formula 40?
:lmao:
One day you'll be in Formula 40 Jonny.The only problem is I think I'll be like 67....anybody remeber Bob Lelie??
Was he the guy that they did the big retirement ride around the track with back in 2006?
Yeah dude..fuckin' awesome.I think the only reason he retired was cuz' I think his wife was ill,what a woman for putting up with CCS racing for 30 some years.Bob was still doing 17's at the farm and as wide as a house.Marshall Skloss even commented one time on how hard he was to get around,in his 60's!!That's who I'd like to be.Then you have a guy Dennis DeBuhr,who turned 50 this year,runnin' 12's at the farm and 27's at R.A.You don't stop playing when you grow old,you grow old when you stop playing.Gald you're OK,see you at BHF.
His name is Bob Delie (SP?) he was 66 when he retired after 50+ years holding a racing licence. He quit racing bikes because he discovered marathon running. BTW, I am 56.
Ahhh to have a wife like that. I haven't dated a girl in the last 4 years that hasn't tried to "change me for the better" and tried to make me quit riding. Ahh, maybe my downfall is the Asian girls... so beautiful yet so conservative. Maybe I need to mix it up... anyone know any cute red heads in their 20's who like fat chinese motorcycle racers?
That's funny Jonny but I think it's kinda universal.John Wayne said it in Rooster Cogburn..."why does a woman always have to change a man'? Ice,mybe my facts are wrong...second hand info you know...anyway,we can all look up to him and the like.
I am thankful that I got to know Bob, I just regret not doing it sooner.
Hey Gu! Glad you are alright. If you ever do find a woman, and live long enough, at least you will have the coolest crash pictures to show the kids and grand kids. Think about the stories. "did that hurt grampa? You were really high in the air like superman in reverse". "you bet your god dam ass it did sonny, but I got up and walked away"
Quote from: JonGu on July 10, 2008, 12:16:37 PM
Ahhh to have a wife like that. I haven't dated a girl in the last 4 years that hasn't tried to "change me for the better" and tried to make me quit riding. Ahh, maybe my downfall is the Asian girls... so beautiful yet so conservative. Maybe I need to mix it up... anyone know any cute red heads in their 20's who like fat chinese motorcycle racers?
Ahh....yes red heads....mmmmm. My wife is a red head, but she is no where near 20 and is VERY taken. But she does put up with my old ass heading off to the races. :thumb:
Now that's a scary image........
Little red haired baby Gu's running around! :ahhh: :ahhh:
Gu said (back a bit):
"...it seems to be a recurring theme with the NESBA-aligned riders who go for overall championships."
That's NESBA-aligned riders who go for overall amateur championships (& the CCS show "Where are They Now ?" ain't paying the bills....)
Something to think about while you heal up.
Quote from: d!ll on July 10, 2008, 11:59:07 PM
Gu said (back a bit):
"...it seems to be a recurring theme with the NESBA-aligned riders who go for overall championships."
That's NESBA-aligned riders who go for overall amateur championships (& the CCS show "Where are They Now ?" ain't paying the bills....)
Something to think about while you heal up.
"Hello, my name is d!ll and I am Rick the professional shit disturber's protege'" :biggrin:
Wow... that's gotta be worth at least another 5 pages...
Quote from: r1owner on July 11, 2008, 12:16:10 AM
Wow... that's gotta be worth at least another 5 pages...
Oh goodie, I hope so, this is the best entertainment I've been getting all week :thumb:
I'm kind of dense soooo.... what are we trying to imply here?
A: Amateur overall regional championships aren't worth much - afterall we are just amateurs
B: Guy's who don't come back to race with the expert big boys are just sandbaggers
C: Pushing too hard for amatuer victories is downright stupid and reckless
All of the above? or... just plain NESBA sucks? :ahhh: :lmao:
Let it go, Jon... :thumb:
Gu it seems you have already given this thought - your not "dense"; maybe an ontrack-asspacker-cartwheeling-thru-14-s.o.b.
:biggrin:
but not dense, hell if you were so dense you wouldna flow so damn high!
Quoteor... just plain NESBA sucks?
Now I never said that; NESBA - maybe asspackers and cheaters though...
Yeah Nesba doesn't suck - they blow....
...by you on the straights on 750's in 600 classes
see Jon, the trick to finding a girl who will put up with your racing is to find one who does it herself. Why do you think my man has put up with me for so long? Or...wait, it's me that's put up with him.
Oh, no. I think I was right the first time. :D
Yup... looks like I'm the official sand bagging, worthless amateur championship chasing, ass packing NESBA rider of the year. Can we get some T-shirts printed up here?
And I like where this thread is heading with talk about girls. If only there were more of them at the track. Single girls, doesn't matter if they are riders or just motorcycle friendly. Years of staring at the married girls at the track is doing nothing but driving me crazy.
Quote from: JonGu on July 12, 2008, 09:27:38 PM
And I like where this thread is heading with talk about girls. If only there were more of them at the track. Single girls, doesn't matter if they are riders or just motorcycle friendly. Years of staring at the married girls at the track is doing nothing but driving me crazy.
might help if you moved out of your parent's house..... :biggrin:
Oh you did not just go there. Lol... I don't plan on staying in STL long enough to need my own place though so here I am. And not paying rent is what is paying for my tires this year :D
Quote from: JonGu on July 12, 2008, 09:43:52 PM
Oh you did not just go there. Lol...
sorry Jon, that was just too easy...
Quote from: JonGu on July 12, 2008, 09:43:52 PM
I don't plan on staying in STL long enough to need my own place
Hey now... What's wrong with St. Louis??? Besides all the crack head gang bangers?
they must be related to the ones in KC then.
Hi guys I'm the "asspackee" in this thread, just getting around to posting...just want to start off by saying I have no hard feelings toward Gu, he called and we talked about it and I think we both could have made different decisions and its just one of those race incidents that I realize can and do happen...I'm glad we werent both hurt...I'm still hurting pretty bad the hip is the worst, the leg doesnt really hurt that bad, so hopefully it stays that way. I disloacated my left thumb real bad as well as pulled a tendon or muscle in my right elbow which is painful at times. I got to the Dr. thursday to see what is next. The bike isnt as bad as it could have been, i think I broke its fall..;)
I just wish I wasnt doing so good and it woulldnt have been such and big deal. I'll probably get to see a first place points position in one of the classes and watch it go lower and lower in the standings each race weekend. :( oh well it did make for some kick ass pics and one hell of a story..depending on how i heal i may just pack it up and call it a good go at a first AM season, and get back into fishing or something. Or who knows maybe sandbag it next year and win a championship. :)
Hang in there,heal up quickly....sound like you've got a good attitude,and that always helps!!
Quote from: Bappe on July 14, 2008, 06:24:38 PM
Hi guys I'm the "asspackee" in this thread, just getting around to posting...just want to start off by saying I have no hard feelings toward Gu, he called and we talked about it and I think we both could have made different decisions and its just one of those race incidents that I realize can and do happen...I'm glad we werent both hurt...I'm still hurting pretty bad the hip is the worst, the leg doesnt really hurt that bad, so hopefully it stays that way. I disloacated my left thumb real bad as well as pulled a tendon or muscle in my right elbow which is painful at times. I got to the Dr. thursday to see what is next. The bike isnt as bad as it could have been, i think I broke its fall..;)
I just wish I wasnt doing so good and it woulldnt have been such and big deal. I'll probably get to see a first place points position in one of the classes and watch it go lower and lower in the standings each race weekend. :( oh well it did make for some kick ass pics and one hell of a story..depending on how i heal i may just pack it up and call it a good go at a first AM season, and get back into fishing or something. Or who knows maybe sandbag it next year and win a championship. :)
Aaron - Sorry Dave and I didn't get up to see you..... I'm glad your doing as well as you are..... You'll heal up quick -
http://www.seacoastvitamins.com/product_info.php?products_id=803
Take this stuff - Really - it helped me heal up broken bones faster then you can blink an eye.... Dave told me to try it and he has used it with really good results....
You'll be back racing - You won't be able to live with yourself if your always asking yourself "Just how far could I have gone"?
When I broke my neck racing Supercross - I thought I was done too.... Took a year off to heal - and then started Roadracing - cause I couldn't come to terms with living a life without racing - or being a NORMAL person for lack of better words....
Hope to see you soon man - Keep the infection away and you'll be good to go in no time :)
Aaron, You better get back out there as we know Travis will be soon and it just wouldn't be the same only having 1 of the 2! Besides I need someone to chase around and help in the pits after I crash.
Good to hear from ya Aaron. Take the next year off to do track days and get ridiculously fast, then sandbag it and petition to stay amateur for 2010 and sweep the overall championship!
We racers aren't the smartest breed of human are we?
Well I get to go back to the cutting board in the morning, it appears old St. Nicholas surgons dont have a clue, or just dont give shit...The gash from the bone wasnt closed up enough and when my doc (who fixed my ankles from 05)...Dr. Horton from KU med saw it, his words were "so what the hell is this" so he is going to fix that and then in a month straighten my leg since its crooked as hell now...so anyway, I'm a bit irriateted at the moment, so wish mw luck
Dude??? WTF???
PM me ur celly
Ouch... leg straightening? That sounds painful... yikes. Maybe this will cheer you up? Another one for the scrapbook lol
Alright here we go, just got the Gron4 full crash sequence pics in... Here's how a mondo 2 bike asspacking highside looks animated
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jgcomps.com%2Fbikepics%2Fcrash1.gif&hash=9f6235674c50280cf9460b19d8791ddec113d1be)
Hey Jon, give me a call ive got your bike ready, and I dont think ill be able to tow it up blackhawk. 314 574 1498
The crash is crazy in a .Gif!
here is the vid updated with the pic sequence and some aftermath pics...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqhUQYlny8o