T14 Crash @ RA, Sunday Race #6 (MWSS)

[JonGu]

Paul definitely has something to be upset about for that pass and I acknowledge that and am glad he came to me and talked about it the way he did, very cool and good of him. From his perspective, I moved over on him while passing on the inside of 6. From my perspective, I passed him on the exit of turn 5 and went to turn in for 6 and felt a hit on my rear. I actually thought to myself "wtf, that dude is outta control, why would he bump me like that after I already got him." I didn't realize until he talked to me that I didn't complete the pass out of 5 and that we were actually going up the hill side by side when I moved over on him. I didn't see Paul because I was slightly ahead and already looking at the corner entrance and realize now that I should have paid more attention before changing my line. I'd like to think it's a racing incident and not just reckless riding, but I'm glad I got talked to about it and did learn something from it.

As for the cartwheeling incident well... Aaron and I also talked about it and it seems like it was another unfortunate racing incident. He didn't just brake a little early, he told me that he accidentally downshifted and that's why he slowed down so early. In the video he was actually pulling me when you hear his bike all of a sudden start to rev high. I was racing Aaron all weekend (the last race he beat me by like 3 feet, and even slapped my leg on the straight once :) ) and know pretty well where he brakes for that corner so I felt quite confident following him in, but then we ended up colliding. It's definitely not his fault and I'm not trying to say that it's not my fault either, I mean there are so many things I could have done differently (like try to take him on the brakes on the inside for example)

And as for me and Dan with the passes at MAM, I never thought they were too aggressive but can see how you might have been upset about it. I'll just say this... the few times I passed you and stood you up, there was about 3-4 feet of space inbetween us, on the borderline of being too close, but if you didn't expect it I can see why it spooked ya. As for why I passed there instead of on the brakes earlier well... you pulled such a huge freaking gap on the straights that it took me over half a lap to make it back up every time. That bike is sweet! (wishing I could afford it and that it wasn't carbed) I was hoping to get by you - knowing that you would repass me on the straights, but that I'd close the gap enough that I might be able to outbrake you earlier in the lap instead of at turn 10. But if you had taken tighter more defensive lines instead of swooping way out wide then there is no way I could have even attempted to go up the inside of ya in the right hand part of that chicane.

I actually hate that the passes upset ya and you talking to me made me think long and hard - enough that I ended up settling for a couple of crappy middleweight finishes the next round because I didn't wanna piss someone else off by stuffing them even though they were going a full second slower than me. I realized I was shooting myself in the foot though by doing that and that the goals of winning an overall regional championship and riding nice and not pissing off anyone are incompatible goals.

As for how close I feel is comfortable in a pass... ask Jay Smith. On the last lap of a LW race, I stuffed him in the bus stop and then one corner later he divebombed me on the inside of turn 5 at Blackhawk and freaked the shit outta me but instead of standing up, I rested my elbow on his knee and fairing while we went through that corner. This is after 2 or 3 laps of constant position changes. He won because I just couldn't safely pass him on the last corner. The next time we saw each other we agreed that it was the best fucking race we've ever experienced and coolest thing in the world and that we were both cool with each other.

Actually, at this point I'm not even sure what the point of this post is anymore. I'm just bored and should probably stay away from the keyboard before I piss off anyone else lol

[JonGu]

Just noticed this, so for the record I don't think that running a top 4 overall lightweight pace at your middleweight track times represents a pace that would have passing only on the straights.  So on my occassion to dice with you when I was dog-shit tired at the end of the day and knew I was way off the pace I decided to not have you stand me up at the apex a third time and let you stay ahead on the straights. 

But, the bike's for sale and that 25hp edge could be all yours for the right price.

lol sorry for the sarcasm and the cheap jab, it was a bit out of line and douchebaggy (is that a real word?) of me.

Like I said in my post above, I'm going for overall regional champ and I'm learning that winning that title doesn't mean riding faster than everyone else. It's more of an endurance race and the winner is the guy who survives the most number of races and manages to finish reasonably well. That means that I can't be a bonehead and pull too many idiot maneuvers so I do try to take in and learn a little bit from every situation. Reading all these posts is certainly helping me out 

[d!ll]

but not everyone has the benefit of an extra 25hp over their competition to keep the passing on the straights.

Ahh you might want to talk to Team Appel about this they know this trick about using a 750 as a....  

[Farmboy]

As for how close I feel is comfortable in a pass... ask Jay Smith. On the last lap of a LW race, I stuffed him in the bus stop and then one corner later he divebombed me on the inside of turn 5 at Blackhawk and freaked the shit outta me but instead of standing up, I rested my elbow on his knee and fairing while we went through that corner. This is after 2 or 3 laps of constant position changes. He won because I just couldn't safely pass him on the last corner. The next time we saw each other we agreed that it was the best fucking race we've ever experienced and coolest thing in the world and that we were both cool with each other.

Actually, at this point I'm not even sure what the point of this post is anymore. I'm just bored and should probably stay away from the keyboard before I piss off anyone else lol

Sounds awesome, and definitely sounds like good racing to me.

FYI, staying away from the keyboard is incompatible with recuperation. You may as well piss people off in here, too; you're already one of the most, if not THE most, polarizing riders this year..

[JonGu]

Ahh you might want to talk to Team Appel about this they know this trick about .... 

Doh! hahaha I don't want to turn this into a commentary on the status of LW racing, but why why why do people spend so much money on a freaking SV motor? It's a freaking commuter bike for gods sake, and LW racing is suppose to be a cheap entry into the sport! As it stands, it costs more to own a competitive LW bike than it does to own a competitive MW bike, and that is just ridiculous to me. Seriously, how many motors has Guy, Hawk, Hernan, Ed Key or Joel Spalding blown? And how many has Erik Rodriguez blown? I'll take my bone stock SV motor w/ nothing but a power commander and full pipe any day even if it means I'll never even make top 5 in an expert LW race. That's the same motor that I ran for a full 25 minute GT race with no coolant - DOH! not good for overall power for sure, especially when I can't even stay in touch with Roy's bone stock 1st gen bike!

[JonGu]

FYI, staying away from the keyboard is incompatible with recuperation. You may as well piss people off in here, too; you're already one of the most, if not THE most, polarizing riders this year..

It's an honor lol... it seems to be a recurring theme with the NESBA-aligned riders who go for overall championships. Let's see... Marshall pissed off plenty of people in 06, Dustin caused quite a stir in 07, and now I'm stirring the pot in 08. I'm not putting myself in their category though, I'm slow and have to sandbag my way to the top by running LW races for championship points :P

[backMARKr]

I'm slow and have to sandbag my way to the top by running LW races for championship points :P

Doh! hahaha I don't want to turn this into a commentary on the status of LW racing, but why why why do people spend so much money on a freaking SV motor? It's a freaking commuter bike for gods sake, and LW racing is suppose to be a cheap entry into the sport! As it stands, it costs more to own a competitive LW bike than it does to own a competitive MW bike, and that is just ridiculous to me. Seriously, how many motors has Guy, Hawk, Hernan, Ed Key or Joel Spalding blown? And how many has Erik Rodriguez blown? I'll take my bone stock SV motor w/ nothing but a power commander and full pipe any day even if it means I'll never even make top 5 in an expert LW race.

Good plan, Jon.....get in good with the other classes by pissing off the LW guys


Sounds like Kyle and I missed all the fun at RA...

Heal up quickly everyone and we will hopefully see you soon!!!

BTW...let us know what ya'all need as you put your bikes back together

[JonGu]

Oh no. No no no... you guys with your pretty paint and your fancy stickers... that R6 was the best looking bike I ever owned and look how quickly it turned to hell. From now on its primer bikes with yellow duct tape number plates for me 

[backMARKr]

Oh no. No no no... you guys with your pretty paint and your fancy stickers... that R6 was the best looking bike I ever owned and look how quickly it turned to hell. From now on its primer bikes with yellow duct tape number plates for me 

Nahh...you're lookin' at all wrong....

A clean, sharp bike INSPIRES confidence....

[jon cone]

Okay, I've got to call bull shit here.  Jon I'm sorry - you're a good guy around the paddock, but you're a f*cking a$$ on the track. 

I had a race with Jon Gu on Saturday in LWGP where he and I must have passed each other 10 times. I never felt for a moment Jon was making any bad passes or not holding his line when I was passing. I made a very late brake into Canada trying to pile on some distance and he maintained his line through without reacting to my nearly leaving the track. Was a very competitive race and probably frustrating as hell for him, but I did not get the sense he was anything other than a racer on the track. I actually thought if anything that he had a great sense of humor when he waved me past on the long straight.

[rogers1323]

I don't want to offend anyone here, but I see a lot of AM racers talking about what is and what isn't clean passing.  As a first year expert, I've been passed more closely this year than I was probably all year last year.  But, at the same time, I felt that those passes were clean and none of them spooked me.  I'm pretty comfortable with another bike 8 inches or so away from me.  And my experience so far says that the guys around me can put their bike in that space without taking my line from me.

I've been on both ends of passes that were a little sketchy.  I passed a friend of mine last year at the apex of T10 at Summit.  My intention was to pass him on the brakes, but he managed to get on the brakes later than he had the previous 2 laps.  By that point it was way too late for me to back out of the pass.  My options were to keep trail braking and probably T bone him at the apex, or let off the brakes and beat him to the apex.  He had to change his line, but I got there early enough that he was able to react.  In the end, since I beat him to the apex, I think it was a clean pass.  When I apologized after the race for the pass, he said it was perfectly clean.  I have to agree.  If you're at the apex first, and in time for the other rider to see you there, you did your job.

I had someone pass me just before the apex of T4 at Summit last year.  I REALLY didn't expect him to be there, but he was there early enough that I could adjust my line and still make the turn, so I called it a clean pass.  Pretty ballsy, but clean.

As for moving over on someone while on the brakes, I usually try to make my "lane changes" while I'm on the gas setting up for a turn if at all possible.  That allows the other rider, if they're still beside you (which is sometimes hard to determine if you can't actually see them) to check up or roll off the throttle in order to avoid contact.  Or, they can hold their position if they want to keep fighting for it.  And I'm not suggesting trying to push someone off, but making that move on the gas gives the other rider more options to avoid if they're still there.

[Farmboy]

I don't want to offend anyone here,

Hah. Not to worry, you are posting up in a GuTopic, where Jon reserves the sole right to offend wantonly and willfully, and exercises said right extensively and gleefully.