I just want everyone to know about some cheating that went on this weekend at Summit.
Any amateurs out there that are riding your asses off and still can't see the top three positions? Well check this out. Two guys that were in the top three every race they were in as amateurs this weekend are currently experts racing in WERA.
The one guys name is Nassaf Guirguis and the other joker, he's real swift. His name is Kang Lu but in WERA he goes by Kenny Lu. It is 100% the same jerk.
Hey and if that pisses ya off? Just think about the podium and trophy you deserve or better yet the moeney they stole from us in the GP1000!!!!!
I just wanted to make everyone aware, so if you are an amateur or know one please pass this on. Lets get this resolved.
Thanks!
B.C.
Hell of an opener there fella...
Have you contacted CCS? That'd be the first place to start.
Yeah, they know.
Damn, thats pretty low, if its true,
If true, this directly effects me in 4 races this past weekend. What's CCS going to do about it? That's a lot of points I'm getting screwed out of. :wtf:
CCS should just ban them from competition and anyone else who races expert in another series and runs amateur in another to cherrypick. This isnt like someone whos been away from racing for 5 yrs going back to am just to get back in the swing of things. Only thing lower at the track than those two are bike theives and not by much.
Not sure what's going to happen yet. But if it is directly affecting you and you're points, I would be concerned. Stay on top of this issue and if you donm't see anything happening contact ccs as well.
It sounds like they were seduced by the money and fame that comes with winning amateur races.
You see it all the time... ::)
I have recieved several inquires regarding this and I am researching this, so I cannot comment on what will be done.
Thanks Eric.
Quote from: JBraun on May 07, 2007, 01:02:38 PM
It sounds like they were seduced by the money and fame that comes with winning amateur races.
You see it all the time... ::)
Not to mention all of the pro contract options that are generate by top level performances in AM club racing. LOL LOL ROFLOL
From WERA at Summit this year, April 21, 2007. Look at positions 6 and 7 of this A Superbike race. This is just one race.
http://www.mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=506920
This kind of stuff is wrong. I thought I had recognized one of them as I was sitting on hot pit and they were doing an interview
I'm kind of torn here because Kenny pulled me to my first win Sunday. However in a Saturday race the extra points would be nice. What are the rules on this? Do they have to race expert in both even though they didn't have enough points or qualify in the other?
Holy crap, these guys beat Arnie Hastings racing as Experts in WERA and then they race as Amature in CCS!!!! thats just wrong.
That's low, even for sandbaggers!
I though when you applied for a CCS liscense you had to state your previous racing expirience?
your so cute...
you would never do well as my accountant!!! :biggrin:
My guess is they werent entirely "accurate"
I hope CCS pulls their license......for ever.
What would really be cool if WERA did the same. If they would lie/cheat so they can race AM there is no telling what they would do when racing EX at a WERA event.
Well, if it turns out that these are the very same racers, I'm sure CCS will take appropriate action. As far as WERA goes, I don't know that they would do anything because this was not a WERA event. You can bet that they will be watched more closely, though. Stupid thing to do, and not very sportsman like. Sponsors see this stuff and want nothing to do with this type of rider.
"Sponsors see this stuff and want nothing to do with this type of rider " Thats a very good point! Hope they see it.
If this is true, I would have moved up one place in 3 races, including a 2nd place in one of them.
Quote from: spyderchick on May 07, 2007, 03:44:50 PM
Well, if it turns out that these are the very same racers, I'm sure CCS will take appropriate action. As far as WERA goes, I don't know that they would do anything because this was not a WERA event. You can bet that they will be watched more closely, though. Stupid thing to do, and not very sportsman like. Sponsors see this stuff and want nothing to do with this type of rider.
If I was WERA, I would kick them to the curb for the hell of it (it's not like they will make or break WERA). There is no place in this sport for scum like these two. The sport would be better off without them.
We don't really have a reason to do anything to them however I wouldn't mind either one not racing again. Always seems to be something with the two of them every weekend.
Eliminate their results from this weekend, and pull their right to race in CCS as experts or amateurs.
Similar thing happened at Daytona last year and CCS pulled the wins. There were some very fast LW amateurs as well, I was dicing with one and I finished 4th in EX. This is wrong and the punishment should be severe.
Just to play devils advocate. Is it possible they recieved their WERA Expert status after they recieved their CCS Am status? If that were the case, would CCS run them as Ex or AM? As a disclaimer I don't know either of them.
Quote from: DougK on May 07, 2007, 06:47:08 PM
Just to play devils advocate. Is it possible they recieved their WERA Expert status after they recieved their CCS Am status? If that were the case, would CCS run them as Ex or AM? As a disclaimer I don't know either of them.
They both raced the WERA weekend at Summit a couple of weeks ago as Experts.
I think that CCS has a policy to license newcomers as experts if they hold EX credentials in a comparable series.
Quote from: spyderchick on May 07, 2007, 07:04:28 PM
I think that CCS has a policy to license newcomers as experts if they hold EX credentials in a comparable series.
That's what I've been told as well. I assume these two asshats lied a little on their applications.
Same with WERA.
The problem is that CCS does not do background checks on license applicants, nor should they be expected to. It is assumed that applicants will tell the truth about their participation with other clubs. So unscrupulious applicants can lie if they choose to. Problem is, this sport is small. How would you expect NOT to be caught if you tried such a scam? Even worse, how could you expect to be treated with respect by your fellow racers if you were caught trying to pull something like this?
Kevin Elliot and Eric Kelcher are fair men. CCS will do the appropriate thing if these allegations are proven true. If they ARE true though, CCS will only be able to deal with the points, finishing positions, and license status of the riders in question. The real punishment needs to come from the racing community. Someone who'd pull such a move doesn't deserve a hello, a bottle of water, a brake lever, help with his rear stand.... In fact, you probably shouldn't piss on a guy like that if he was on fire!
Personally, I'm a SLOW Expert. I'm not competitive with a white plate. This year, CCS somehow accidentally bumped me down to Amateur status. I thought about that for maybe ten minutes, then called and told them they'd made a mistake. I've had my glory as an amateur. It's someone else's turn.
We know K3. We read the book. :biggrin:
Quote from: K3 Chris Onwiler on May 07, 2007, 07:25:35 PM
Kevin Elliot and Eric Kelcher are fair men. CCS will do the appropriate thing...
Can someone say 39½? :lmao:
I luv yew man, I really really do!
Now there's a case study where fair men did the right thing. :thumb: As a wise man with the initials DR once said, "It may have been an ugly journey to winning those championships, but if you need to be consoled, think about the crybabies you prevented from winning them instead!" :lmao:
Quote from: tstruyk on May 07, 2007, 03:16:51 PM
you would never do well as my accountant!!! :biggrin:
Be carefull on what your accountant says...
Quote from: Simon on May 07, 2007, 02:18:22 PM
Holy crap, these guys beat Arnie Hastings racing as Experts in WERA and then they race as Amature in CCS!!!! thats just wrong.
Nah....his duc clutch was terrible that weekend, if you remember, he stalled it twice off the line in two seperate races, then the thing was slipping. This weekend he was pretty much consistent 18.000's each lap on the 999
I must really suck getting beaten by 2 amatures. How stupid are these guys to run as experts with WERA then 2 weeks later at the same track run as ams with CCS. They didn't think anybody would notice. I know people that do it and get away with it, but it is up to us riders to police it sometimes as the orgs cannot do background checks on everybody. A common scam that a lot of riders do is when they get bumped with one org, they just don't renew their license and switch to another the following year. There wera couple in WERA last year that switched from CCS.
Quote from: ahastings on May 08, 2007, 12:28:54 AM
I must really suck getting beaten by 2 amatures. How stupid are these guys to run as experts with WERA then 2 weeks later at the same track run as ams with CCS. They didn't think anybody would notice. I know people that do it and get away with it, but it is up to us riders to police it sometimes as the orgs cannot do background checks on everybody. A common scam that a lot of riders do is when they get bumped with one org, they just don't renew their license and switch to another the following year. There wera couple in WERA last year that switched from CCS.
VERY VERY different from what happened here. Some times you can do one CCS double points weekend and enter a boat load of races, place fairly well and earn almost enough point to go expert in CCS. WERA doesnt use the same points system and even when you tell them your race history wouldnt even allow you to bump up.
To recap...if you are decent at VIR, enter every race you can put your bike in a dbl piont weekend and place top 5, does that make you an expert? I dont think so
Quote from: Big Deezul on May 08, 2007, 06:36:38 AM
VERY VERY different from what happened here. Some times you can do one CCS double points weekend and enter a boat load of races, place fairly well and earn almost enough point to go expert in CCS. WERA doesnt use the same points system and even when you tell them your race history wouldnt even allow you to bump up.
To recap...if you are decent at VIR, enter every race you can put your bike in a dbl piont weekend and place top 5, does that make you an expert? I dont think so
so its ok to have a ccs ex licence and a wera nv licence? i dont think so... expert is expert
Quote from: Big Deezul on May 08, 2007, 06:36:38 AM
VERY VERY different from what happened here. Some times you can do one CCS double points weekend and enter a boat load of races, place fairly well and earn almost enough point to go expert in CCS. WERA doesnt use the same points system and even when you tell them your race history wouldnt even allow you to bump up.
To recap...if you are decent at VIR, enter every race you can put your bike in a dbl piont weekend and place top 5, does that make you an expert? I dont think so
I didn't say it was the same. I was just saying it is a ploy used by some. I know the CCS advancement system is easier than WERAs. In 2003 I did 2 1/2 race weekends with CCS one of which was double points and got bumped to expert, but I took it like a man and spent 2004 getting my butt kicked. In fact I am still getting my butt kicked quite regularly but I do my share of kicking back.
well from my seat...you were doing the kicking at Summit...you were flying! :thumb:
I don't particularly understand the desire to stay AM/Novice. Money? No matter how much you win in the few purse races as a AM you still lose money going racing. To me it's a desire to earn my EX license, it's a personal goal. However, as pointed out by the people who were affected in the purse races, they are having money taken out of their pockets and that should be remedied.
Quote from: sv814 on May 07, 2007, 11:15:19 PM
Nah....his duc clutch was terrible that weekend, if you remember, he stalled it twice off the line in two seperate races, then the thing was slipping. This weekend he was pretty much consistent 18.000's each lap on the 999
I did redeem myself and beat them later in the day at the WERA races
http://mylaps.com/results/newResults.jsp?id=506922&highlight=6
Raking the shit out of contingency as an AM can make racing quite cost effective...
Quote from: Jeff on May 08, 2007, 09:35:52 AM
Raking the shit out of contingency as an AM can make racing quite cost effective...
Hopefully CCS will give them a lifetime ban and put an end to it.
All I care about is the points I got screwed out of by these two jerkoffs. I know CCS will make it right. This is my first year racing with CCS, and to date, I've been nothing but impressed by the way they run their show.
I don't see a reason to ban them. Yeah, they are dummies, but just make them experts so they race in a classification that they should be in. Dump their finishes, move everyone up. I can't say that I know what will be done, but it's an idea.
Quote from: Super Dave on May 08, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
I can't say that I know what will be done, but it's an idea.
So is kicking them in the nuts! :-)
Quote from: Super Dave on May 08, 2007, 10:36:56 AM
I don't see a reason to ban them. Yeah, they are dummies, but just make them experts so they race in a classification that they should be in. Dump their finishes, move everyone up. I can't say that I know what will be done, but it's an idea.
So they cheat and all you want to do is slap them on the wrist. I say, since they took money that was not theirs (ex racing in an AM race), make them pay it back, fine them each $500.00 and make them cornerwork 1 or 2 events before they can race again.
Quote from: danboy on May 07, 2007, 02:12:45 PM
I'm kind of torn here because Kenny pulled me to my first win Sunday. However in a Saturday race the extra points would be nice. What are the rules on this? Do they have to race expert in both even though they didn't have enough points or qualify in the other?
Conrgats Danboy! You were always a fast bugger anyway. I am curious to hear the ruling on this also. I know they raced CCS quite a bit last year, but didn't get bumped to Expert. However, they raced in a small WERA class and accumulated enough points to go expert there. I guess its easy to finish 4th overall when there is only 8-12 ppl on the grid each week. Just looking at last years points and Kenny only won one race and Nassef zero... Not like they were dominating last year...
I thought it was mandatory, via the rule book 2.2.6 C, that if a racer gets bumped up to expert in another org that its the riders responsibility to notify CCS of there status change.
Kind of ambiguous in writing but it gives CCS the flexibility to act in accordance.
Quote from: DougK on May 08, 2007, 09:28:30 AM
I don't particularly understand the desire to stay AM/Novice. Money? No matter how much you win in the few purse races as a AM you still lose money going racing. To me it's a desire to earn my EX license, it's a personal goal. However, as pointed out by the people who were affected in the purse races, they are having money taken out of their pockets and that should be remedied.
I think that some do it for the contingency. It does not make racing free, but it does help to reduce your expenditure. I think others need the gratification of higher finishing positions to feed their ego. I guess you have to ask yourself the question "What do I want to get out of racing"? Are you there to become the best racer you can be? Or are you there to prove your superiority to others.
Quote from: EX_#76 on May 08, 2007, 01:27:11 PM
I think that some do it for the contingency. It does not make racing free, but it does help to reduce your expenditure. I think others need the gratification of higher finishing positions to feed their ego. I guess you have to ask yourself the question "What do I want to get out of racing"? Are you there to become the best racer you can be? Or are you there to prove your superiority to others.
At the highest levels racing IS all about proving your superiority but you don't do that in the novice ranks. For that matter you really don't do that in the CCS ranks. Club racing is about learning how, it is a training ground for those that care to move on and a place for the weekend warrior to have some fun. For someone who is an expert to circumvent the system to plunder the amateur races is like picking a fight with someone half your size. Quite an accomplishment eh. Something to brag about to your kids some day, when your not picking a fight with them.
Quote from: njracer on May 08, 2007, 11:24:24 AM
make them cornerwork 1 or 2 events before they can race again.
Do you really want someone 'punished' to be cornerworking? Think about how responsive they're going to be to you and the rest of the field when you're sprawled out unconscious on the race line at the exit of a turn... Thought not... :-)
Cornerworking is a labor of love, not a punishment.
Quote from: sobottka on May 08, 2007, 08:17:31 AM
so its ok to have a ccs ex licence and a wera nv licence? i dont think so... expert is expert
NO....Thats not at all what I said
Quote from: ahastings on May 08, 2007, 08:58:40 AM
I didn't say it was the same. I was just saying it is a ploy used by some. I know the CCS advancement system is easier than WERAs. In 2003 I did 2 1/2 race weekends with CCS one of which was double points and got bumped to expert, but I took it like a man and spent 2004 getting my butt kicked. In fact I am still getting my butt kicked quite regularly but I do my share of kicking back.
a few good wrecks and missinng all but 1 round of the 06 seaon kept me from doing the same :thumb:
Quote from: Jeff on May 08, 2007, 02:48:38 PM
Do you really want someone 'punished' to be cornerworking? Think about how responsive they're going to be to you and the rest of the field when you're sprawled out unconscious on the race line at the exit of a turn... Thought not... :-)
Cornerworking is a labor of love, not a punishment.
I was just thinking outside of the box (stupid).......I still think they should get the ban and have to refund the money they won.
I think I remember these two as riders that started in the very back (must have post registered) and were passing the crap out of top ten - fifteen people (me) by like the second lap. And if I remember correctly, passing a little on the "rude" side as well.
It's unfortunate that they have to do this to feel better about their performance in another organization, but it still sucks to be them every morning. It'll come back to them, I'm sure. This community is too small and communicates to well for it not to.
8)
What races were they in? Was MW GP one of them?
LOL... there are times when I make dumb statements like "I could totally mop up on that amateur field"... but couldn't imagine actually doing that. it's pretty effed up.
Quote from: Hawk on May 08, 2007, 01:58:18 PM
Quite an accomplishment eh. Something to brag about to your kids some day, when you're not picking a fight with them.
LOL! :lmao:
What asshats... :jerkoff:
I saw one of them pull a really BAD pass outside of turn 10 and ended up crashing the other racer. But I guess you can throw that into the "its racing" pot, but I still think it was a bad pass and was in bad form
Quote from: cbrf4_269 on May 08, 2007, 06:31:47 PM
I saw one of them pull a really BAD pass outside of turn 10 and ended up crashing the other racer. But I guess you can throw that into the "its racing" pot, but I still think it was a bad pass and was in bad form
If it's all true, I'd hardly call that "just racing". I'd be pretty pissed if a guy clipped me in T10. I'd be REALLY pissed if I found out he shouldn't have even been racing in that race like this.
Quote from: YellowDesmo998 on May 08, 2007, 04:32:14 PM
What races were they in? Was MW GP one of them?
Looks like 1000cc races only.
JMHO............jerk the jerks license and fine them ($500) for this year. Let them come back as experts next year, after they've paid the fine that is.
Lying on an application, competing in races they were not eligible for and claiming contingencies they were not eligible for. The contingency paying companies should ban them from any more contingencies also, no matter what class they run. They were also lied to.
Bad juju man...............whack their peepees! :spank:
Does anyboy know what CCS did to these two guys or did they just let it go?
Give Eric and Kevin time nj.
Quote from: njracer on May 09, 2007, 04:15:07 PM
Does anyboy know what CCS did to these two guys or did they just let it go?
Still working on it I think. I hope WERA does something about it too. Unless it's left in "our hands". I'm pissed about it but would be hella pissed if it was my race they were in. I would have words with them face to face. I ain't scerrd of no one :err:
did anybody bring it to the attention of CCS? Or are we sitting in a parking lot with torches & pitchforks in the wrong town...
Quote from: Jeff on May 09, 2007, 04:52:36 PM
Or are we sitting in a parking lot with torches & pitchforks in the wrong town...
As long as we have a cooler full of beer who cares. :-)
They will get theirs :spank:
The thing that I liked about the race community is 99.5% of you are cool and have no problem helping each other out. I don't know if I was treated the way I was because of the guys that I showed up at the track with were respected (Doubt it!) But seeing how you guys raised a good chunk of money for me in my name and only a small few knowing who I was just goes to show how tight this community is. I don't think it really matters what ccs or wera does to these two, it is now known what they are like and they will be treated as what they are. I don't think I would want to go someplace where I was liked as much as the turd in the punch bowl but some people are just :jerkoff:
From the Results page...
Pos Laps Number Bike Size Name
33 4 729 YAM 600 KANG LU Amateur Middleweight Superbike:
1 7 729 YAM 100 KANG LU Amateur Unlimited Superbike
1 7 729 YAM 600 KANG LU Amateur Middleweight Grand Prix
2 9 729 YAM 600 KANG LU Amateur GTU
16 5 730 SUZ 100 NASSEF GUIRGUIS Amateur Unlimited Superbike
1 7 730 SUZ 100 NASSEF GUIRGUIS Amateur Unlimited GP
1 16 730 SUZ 100 NASSEF GUIRGUIS Amateur GTO
1 7 730 SUZ 100 NASSEF GUIRGUIS Amateur Unlimited SuperSport
So those ass hats raced two of the races I was in. Now I'm pissed! Should we get a collective letter together and present it to WERA and CCS? For me it's not the money, it's the points. At a MINIMUM, their results should be dumped and be banned until they pay the money back. The AAF would be a good outlet for the cash if not to the second place racer. Once again, this is a MINIMUM!!
Personally, I'll be looking for them in the paddock of EVERY race I go to in the Mid-Atlantic...
Quote from: YellowDesmo998 on May 09, 2007, 05:41:05 PM
Personally, I'll be looking for them in the paddock of EVERY race I go to in the Mid-Atlantic...
Come find me first. I'm 6'4" 250lbs, and I ride an '07 GSXR 750 painted in Team Promotion colors. My leathers say "yeti" across the ass. I'm kinda hard to miss. :) These fuckers owe me some points too.
They were in several of my races... :-( Not the type of encouragement I need my first race weekend.
I hope this gets solved because it's one thing if a fellow amateur beats me...quite another to be "picked on"
Either way, I just hope this gets resolved!
Quote from: Jeff on May 09, 2007, 04:52:36 PM
did anybody bring it to the attention of CCS? Or are we sitting in a parking lot with torches & pitchforks in the wrong town...
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on May 07, 2007, 01:34:25 PM
I have recieved several inquires regarding this and I am researching this, so I cannot comment on what will be done.
First page. Give them some time to do the job right.
Quote from: yetidave on May 09, 2007, 06:43:26 PM
Come find me first. I'm 6'4" 250lbs, and I ride an '07 GSXR 750 painted in Team Promotion colors. My leathers say "yeti" across the ass. I'm kinda hard to miss. :) These fuckers owe me some points too.
Yep, I've seen ya. I have "Cannoli" across the back of my leathers. I'm 5'10", 210lbs Sicilian who wants his points back!
Quote from: YellowDesmo998 on May 09, 2007, 08:17:02 PM
I'm 5'10", 210lbs Sicilian who wants his points back!
"The most famous is never get involved in a land war in Asia, but only slightly less well-known is this: never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Ha ha"
Quote from: YellowDesmo998 on May 09, 2007, 08:17:02 PM
I'm 5'10", 210lbs Sicilian who wants his points back!
IS this you desmo? :biggrin:
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tk421.net%2Fcharacter%2Fvizzini.jpg&hash=abcb8b5b2f72bdde0105fa2fc19d0465dd1783c9)
don't worry chis 410 keep racing and you will find this doesn't happen often and internal affairs will take care of it
She's a witch! She's a witch!
Quote from: YellowDesmo998 on May 09, 2007, 08:17:02 PM
Yep, I've seen ya. I have "Cannoli" across the back of my leathers. I'm 5'10", 210lbs Sicilian who wants his points back!
Yeah, I remember you. See you Memorial day. :cheers:
Quote from: Woofentino Pugrossi on May 09, 2007, 11:22:33 PM
IS this you desmo? :biggrin:
(https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tk421.net%2Fcharacter%2Fvizzini.jpg&hash=abcb8b5b2f72bdde0105fa2fc19d0465dd1783c9)
lol, not quit. Although I wish I had his $$$. Think of a younger Lou Ferrigno. That's what they call me at the gym anyway. :ass:
This has been handled.
As there was no protest filed at the track the determination is soley between CCS and the riders involved. If there would have been a protest filed then the protesting rider would be informed of the outcome as well.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on May 10, 2007, 09:39:08 AM
This has been handled.
As there was no protest filed at the track the determination is soley between CCS and the riders involved. If there would have been a protest filed then the protesting rider would be informed of the outcome as well.
So what is the outcome?
Since no protest was filed, the rest of us lurkers don't have the right to know the outcome. (At least that's my interpretation, feel free to correct me Eric) I'm not overly concerned with what happens to them, but since they were in a couple of my races I am mildly curious if the points and results will be updated/changed. Or does that go along with the time limit for protests? Feel free to tell me it's none of my business, I'd just love to know whatever you feel you can share.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on May 10, 2007, 09:39:08 AM
This has been handled.
As there was no protest filed at the track the determination is soley between CCS and the riders involved. If there would have been a protest filed then the protesting rider would be informed of the outcome as well.
Results still look the same to me. Looks like CCS is just going to slap them on the wrist.
http://www.ccsracing.com/results/2007/050607%20SPC%20May%205th.htm
I know it takes a little bit of time to update those results and get the new ones posted, so I'm still hopefull that it will change. But, on the other hand, protest rules give a very specific time frame that allows for results to be thrown out. This situation is a little different than most, so there is definitely gray area as to what should happen. I would love to have my points, but it would give me 1 whole point in two classes. I'm not sure how much of a difference that will make.
Quote from: Eric Kelcher on May 10, 2007, 09:39:08 AM
This has been handled.
As there was no protest filed at the track the determination is soley between CCS and the riders involved. If there would have been a protest filed then the protesting rider would be informed of the outcome as well.
Eric, I know that is how the rules are written but it is kind of hard to know that situation at the track. This is kind of unusual (I hope) and it was brought to your attention as as soon as it was discovered. I am still not fit to get on a track yet so this obviously has no bearing on any standing of mine but this incident is the result of these two using secrecy to their advantage. I should think that they have lost any claim to privacy in this matter.
OK, let me try to understand this. Since there was no protest filed, but the situation was brought to your attention by a racer at a later time, no one else has the right to know what penalties were handed out?
Hawk, there is nothing in the rule book about this.
But there is 12.3 which states, penalty for falsifying license applications, loan of license to another party, or participation in fraudulent use of credentials may be suspension of at least one year and possible fines.
Now remember that says ...may be.... not will be.
So why is this a secret Eric?
Quote from: weggieman on May 10, 2007, 10:46:37 PM
So why is this a secret Eric?
Post up... This affects the next 15 racers in every race they were in. That's a lot of people CCS will be turning their back on to pacify two cheaters. Their results should be DQ'd and they should repay the money to CCS or to the second place racers in those races.
I've been racing with CCS since 2005. Anything less then the racers being DQ's will have me rethinking what org I dedicate my time and $$$ to. This is an opportunity for CCS to stand above the other organizations.
Also it would be nice to see what the penalty is and put them out here publicly to deter others from doing the same thing.
Eric,
Perhaps we don't need to know what was done to these guys on a personal level...fines or whatever..
but from a public point of view - CCS really needs to take some kind of "visible" action...IMHO these guys should be DQ'd for the races they were in and prize/contingency $$$ revoked. Otherwise...what's to stop the next guy from doing the same?
On a personal level, I am not happy with the fact that I lost out on points and possibly Pirelli money in three of my races because of these two guys. What if at the end of the season, I am a few points short of becoming an expert and I miss out because these guys stole my points? I am especially unhappy with the fact that I finally got wood (third place), but that it should really be a second place. I want my second place plaque!
the plaque and the points yes but do you really want to go expert I'm going to try to stay amateur as long as I can. but I'm old and slow.
If you're having second place finishes then you should be an expert next year. And unless you only show up to 3, maybe 4 weekends, then you won't have to worry about it. I'd like to have enough points to go expert by the end of the memorial day weekend at Summit, but if not then certainly by the end of the weekend at Roebling. It's really not that hard as long as you can finish top 10 pretty consistently.
Quote from: ahastings on May 11, 2007, 09:49:15 AM
Also it would be nice to see what the penalty is and put them out here publicly to deter others from doing the same thing.
+1
I see that the points have been updated to include those from Summit, but the results page still looks the same. So I assume these two got to keep their results.
soooo inquiring minds want to know what the outcome of all of this was. can someone please postthe official outcome or decision made by ccs management?
I hate to say this because I always had respect for the way CCS was run but this entire "hush, hush" policy is bunk!
CCS needs to do what's right for the majority of their racing community that adheres by the rules and continually supports CCS with our race and licenses fees.
When we perceive CCS is hiding something and/or not taking the correct steps when dealing with cheaters, it's makes it hard to throw down race fees, travel costs, track fees etc. for a CCS event when we won't know it the cheater that took the place/cash/points in front of us will be punished or rewarded.
No mater what the outcome, please tell the public what was done in this situation. You owe us, your customers, that much.
+1 one to that :thumb:
I haven't spoke up until now. But, i was knocked out of some Pirelli money because of these fools in the Unlimited Superbike race not to mention some points.
So yes CCS should take the appropriate action to make sure that the honest racers are not penalized one tiny bit whether its contingency money or race finishes. That would just send out bad vibes throughout the entire racing community and leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth.
One thing to me that seems odd is the name Kang/Kenny. Why did he use different names if it was not intentional or at least know what he was doing was wrong.
His name is Kang, he's called Kenny. He was originally listed as Kang Lu with us, then Kang "Kenny" Lu, now just Kenny since that's what he's called. Kind of like Tray Batey's first name isn't really Tray.
So no official news is going to be resealed or rules implemented to control this from happening again?
bummer.
I wonder how this would have been handled if it happened to poster #99's org?? I doubt it would just be brushed under the rug and forgotten.
Any dissatisfaction at this point needs to remain directed towards our lack of knowledge about and/or inclusion in the result of this. We should not assume that anything has been brushed under the rug or forgotten. I would also love to know what the outcome of this was, but I understand their position and policy towards making things public knowledge. There definitely should not be an assumption made that these two were not punished. I got the impression from Eric's last post that they were punished, he just couldn't give us the details about what that punishment was.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Once they abused the cloak of secrecy they lost all claim to privacy in my mind.
It would be like a highway patrolman quietly following a person to his destination, then giving him a ticket in private, out of sight of other motorists. Half the point is to deter others from doing wrong. The org doesn't have to issue a public beat-down, but after the facts are in, people should be informed of what happened. My two pennies...
I guess we'll find out in about 2 weeks at the next Summit race.
Maybe someone should get a banner made so they can hang it in their pit....something like:
WE LIKE 2 CHEAT racing
there quick to give out public beatings for the wrong air filter. home office dosn't know what kind of answer to give out.they probably don't want to piss anybody off but end up pissing everybody off (i'm good at it)
:preachon: :preachon: :preachon: :preachon: :preachon:
I can understand CCS's part in this about keeping it hush hush. But the way I look at it there were just a couple of cheaters and many many people that were cheated. But to be truthful I could careless what punishment they received, if Chris told us that it has been dealt with then thats good enough for me and probably good enough for many us. My concern is this: Is CCS going to make things right for us by giving us our points and in some classes our contingency's. And if they are not going to pay us what is owed then let us know that this is the case. This would be the fair thing to do instead of just keeping us in the dark. After all we being the majority are the ones paying them to go racing at these events and the majority is the ones you want to keep happy. You will always have a handful of people that you cannot make happy, but when an incident affects the feelings and opinions of a fairly large group of individuals then some type of PR should be done. As far as how the events have been run up to this point I am very pleased and would like to know that the CCS offices will continue to keep things smooth.
As I stated earlier, I simply want my points. I don't think that's too much to ask.
I mean this with absolutely NO OFFENSE. If you guys who were affected want your points and contingency, then EACH OF YOU should write a letter and petition CCS with your wants and concerns. Crying about it here will not get you anything. Chances are that CCS will default to the "Time allotted for protest before results become final" rule if pressed, and also point out that each of you did earn more points than the guy finishing behind you, but unless you do more than talk about it here on the forum, you're not going to get the answers you're looking for.
Unfortunately (and I do feel your pain) it is too much to ask.
The rules are clear and as unfair as it may seem, protests were not filed within the alloted time. That's why there are rules.
I wouldn't look for CCS to comment officially on a public forum. Any sleazy lawyer would love to take on a slander case like that. Leave it alone. Everyone knows who they are and karma will do the rest.