Motorcycle Racing Forum

This is the week before the AMA round up there.

That is the date they have offered as an alternative and we need to know before we go anyfurther what you think.

Quote from: CCS on September 13, 2006, 11:08:51 AM
This is the week before the AMA round up there.

That is the date they have offered as an alternative and we need to know before we go anyfurther what you think.

Are we gonna get punted off the track by AMA knobs entering ccs races for more track time? :kicknuts:

If we race on Monday & Tuesday, what is going on Sat & Sun? Is it race Sun, Mon and Tues? RA is normally a 3 day event the last 2 years I was there...

Kevin, the "what's going on Sat/Sun" question is a good one.

Typically we are able to get on the track a day or two early for practice, but it sounds like those days are already taken.  I would be concerned about when we could get into the track to setup, and having no practice days available immediately preceding the weekend.

The date is awesome, and it would be GREAT to get a later date to run RA, but this proposed event date may have problems which would limit your participation and lead to a lot of frustration.

How about 2008-2009, can you book some good dates out then? (and I'm serious with that question)

Problems with tuesday is some places require you back at work tuesday for you to be paid for monday. And being a holiday weekend like that, how many people would already have plans on Memorial Day with family?

There's almost always a race over the Memorial Day weekend, so that point is moot.  But the business day race, that is a valid concern (which I believe is why Kevin posted the poll).

Yeah, def need a little more information from Kevin for sure...

Is it going to be a ASRA Event? I would assume so, so more than likely a 3 day event. Are you going to squeze it into a 2 day event? Jeff, do you know what is going on Sat and Sun?

Personally for me, this year at RA was great. The weather was nice, and I have a nice home away from home to sleep in, so the cold at night does not bother me, but I know it does many...

I would also love to see a date later in the year...Family time is also something that is important for a lot of us...Memorial Day, 4th of July and Labor day are pretty big in alot of families...Might be a little smaller turn out?

Don't know...

My $.02 is yes, take it, in the hopes that we can get Fri, Sat, Sun, for the following year.  Guys who race the Nationals know they'll need to take some time off, and my guess is anyone who will already be scheduled to race the AMA event would also attend this event for track time. CCS riders might have an issue with it, but considering how far in advance this has been mentioned, most employers can schedule time off for someone with enough lead time.

Thanks Kevin for working on this. I know how difficult it is to balance these events.
'

I think it is a good idea !

Thanks for asking for our input Kevin. I would like a little more info though.  Warmer but a little more rain.     
   http://www.weather.com/outlook/events/weddings/wxclimatology/monthly/graph/USWI0218?from=search                                             -Snack

Quote from: Jeff on September 13, 2006, 01:16:10 PM
There's almost always a race over the Memorial Day weekend, so that point is moot.  But the business day race, that is a valid concern (which I believe is why Kevin posted the poll).

I know and those have been pretty sparce also. Not only for racers, workers arent all there.

That's true Rob.

I guess the pros/cons I see are:

Pro's:
Later in the season, warmer weather
Close to an AMA weekend so entries could increase from the 'big boys' coming to practice
Probably cheaper for CCS to put on since it's weekdays

Con's:
Close to an AMA weekend and all the 'big boys' tend to detract from the normal CCS crowd (don't debate this, just recognize that it could be a con, alright!?!)
Over a holiday so might be lighter turnout for racers and corner workers
Need to take a day of vacation to attend this weekend
possible entry problems for night before
possibly no practice the days before

Quote from: fourandsix on September 13, 2006, 02:44:19 PM
I think it is a good idea !

This brings up an interesting topic. Everyone voting on this obviously are not racers. This needs to be changed on this board somehow or the polls are inaccurate!

Quote from: PFinn on September 13, 2006, 04:40:20 PM
This brings up an interesting topic. Everyone voting on this obviously are not racers. This needs to be changed on this board somehow or the polls are inaccurate!

The poll isn't that accurate anyhow since a vast number of people who vote one way or another won't follow through.  But it gives you a general idea on how something would be received.

Quote from: Jeff on September 13, 2006, 04:57:28 PM
The poll isn't that accurate anyhow since a vast number of people who vote one way or another won't follow through.  But it gives you a general idea on how something would be received.

YAAA! how it`s received by shop or race team owners....wives,girlfriends,cornerworkers...etc etc etc. Polls on a open forum like this are super inaccurate!

   I'm for it. Where would we go for the traditional RA weekend to pray for Sunshine?   :lmao:

Blackhawk Farms!

I would rather take this date then the date that we have had for the past few years......For weather reasons alone. Depending on what i'm doing next season - If I am available I would attend both the ccs and AMA weekends...The only Problem would be the length of time I would spend in ElkHart... What would it be - eight total days???

Sorry if this was brought up already, I have niether the time or the desire to read everyone elses posts.

Simply, taking off of work for racing is hard for many people.
Now add in a holiday weekend to boot.

It would be nice to have better weather, but I fear the reality is less people, if changed.

XIII

if it was fri(or sat) through tues im all in but cant decide about mon and tues only???

Let's see...would I rather race in mid-WI in April or June???

This would bring me back to RA having skipped the last two Aprils and not regretted it.

Road America's 2006 calendar shows the Porsche Club of Chicago having Friday, Saturday, Sunday of Memorial Day Weekend and NESBA having Monday & Tuesday.  It appears that Kevin is being offered the NESBA dates.

OK, we race on Earth Day, Father's Day, National Aviation Day, Granparents Day, Rosh Hashanah,Gold Star Mother's Day and now you want to race on Memorial Day?

Actually, ask for the weekend and have the Porsche Club take Monday and Tuesday.............

CCS races on Memorial weekend any way (Mid-America this year) so that's not a problem as far as the holiday but the Tuesday deal blows it for a lot of people.

I vote no..... and yes I would have been racing there next year.

Obviously the Memorial Weekend dates would be awesome, but I would seriously consider the Monday-Tuesday before the AMA RA weekend. Might be able to turn it into something special, like AHRMA is for Daytona on Mon-Tues, or the weekend before Mid-Ohio. I vote yes.

two thumbs up

Personally I wish the RA event was later in the season like when we use to have 2 events every season, I wish we would have kept the 2nd event date instead. It kinda sucks how it currently is where the track doesn't get raced on like it should be due to weather all too often ruining it for us.

I understand there is the cost savings of using weekdays, and the preference by the track and those involved to only have to set-up the safety stuff (hay bales and air fence) just once instead of twice, but I also agree that there will probably be less overall turnout. I would most likely attend the Monday - Tuesday event if that's how it ended up, but I still would prefer the event to be in the later 1/2 or 1/3 of the season.

Iam in, Jeff stop crying out all the what ifs.  Although I see all your points jeff,  and they areall very good ones, I would love to race that track in good weather again.

its not the fresh start to a season so it could be alot better than u think

Fatkid 271

Some background info. We, CCS are low-man on the date totem pole for Rd Am, (even with 20 years in), the Porsche Club has had Memorial Day for 30+ years I've been told....Weekdays means CCS only-no practice day beforehand....We have asked for a later weekend, but it depends on their "spectator" event schedule, later in the year also means lower turnout (trend is 700+ entries early in the season down to just over 600 entries by August and September-Barber only saw 900 entries compared to the Rd Am 1100) and possibly higher track rent which equals higher entry fees.

We know the pole is scientifically inaccurate, but we have to have something to go on...and yes, staff is even harder to get than racers.

Thanks to everyone who voted so far, we will let this run over the weekend to see if the 4 to 1 trend continues.

 um yeah well uh I think I will say yes, cause Paul James did!  That dude is smart! lol


N8!

I think the fact that you would have to take Tuesday off is a moot point because we have to take friday off on the existing date.  Personally, I don't go to Road A anymore because of the existing date.  So, I would vote yes.  One thing that might push me away is if we had to cram three days of races into two.  Otherwise, I am in.  Kevin, thanks for acknowledging a tough issue and looking for resolution.

Without seeing a weekend schedule it sounds like there won't be much practice time so, while the date sounds warmer and better for most, this noob would have to pass as I don't think it would be safe for me to race RA with 7 or 8 laps experience on the track.

Quote from: N8Kern on September 14, 2006, 04:36:18 PM
um yeah well uh I think I will say yes, cause Paul James did!  That dude is smart! lol


N8!

Nate, dude, you crack me up! Missed ya at AutoCC...

Quote from: CCS on September 14, 2006, 12:16:08 PM
Some background info. We, CCS are low-man on the date totem pole for Rd Am, (even with 20 years in), the Porsche Club has had Memorial Day for 30+ years I've been told....Weekdays means CCS only-no practice day beforehand....We have asked for a later weekend, but it depends on their "spectator" event schedule, later in the year also means lower turnout (trend is 700+ entries early in the season down to just over 600 entries by August and September-Barber only saw 900 entries compared to the Rd Am 1100) and possibly higher track rent which equals higher entry fees.

Thanks for the info Kevin, I always wondered why we kept the bad weather date? I want to point out a couple issues I thought of concerning this event though.

Like others have pointed out, the event being condensed into 2 days may be an issue for some. I would also assume this means it would then be a traditional event and not a Twin Sprint/ASRA event? Is that really economically viable and do the ASRA racers really want to give up RA from their schedule? And if it was to be a Twin Sprint/ASRA event I assume it would mean dropping the GT races and the Team Challenge to save time, but that would also mean there would probably be only 1 longer or 2 short practices for everyone before racing at the fastest track we race at in the Midwest? I see potential safety issues with that scenerio for many that need the practice time in order to get a rythem before going racing. If we can't fit in a Twin Sprint schedule I can only imagine what the costs would be to the racers per class for a traditional event at that time, I can't see large quantities of racers wanting to pay the same amount of money to get less track time than they normally would at the spring event? (as compared to a Twin Sprint event where everyone gets twice the track time for about the same money that they would if this was held as a traditional event) I wonder if running the event later in the season with less turnout, but as a 3 day Twin Sprint/ASRA schedule like normal, would actually work out to be about the same financally, but wouldn't be a mad crazy compressed schedule like this potential June event would most likely turn out to be? I'm afraid less practice will result in more red flags, which would be insult to injury in this case since we would already be on a really tight schedule. Those are my concerns as of now.

Mike

I think the later date would be better.  Even with all the other concerns brought up by everyone, I still think it would be better than racing in April in WI.  I do hope that we would not have to contend with a compressed schedule.  As for the issue of practice time ahead of the races.......I have a tough time making it a day ahead of time most weekends just to practice, so this might level the playing field a little more.

MY $.02

Would it still be a twin sprint

Don't get me wrong, I would love a warmer Road America date. However, I happen to like the fact that Summit Point is over that same weekend (Sat, Sun, Mon). It would be a shame to give up that weekend. There is always a lot of fans and bikes. It's also so close to D.C. and enjoying the Nation's capital festivities on Memorial Day is very cool!

 :banghead:

Alright now....
Let's see. I have seen nothing but all you complainers on here. I can't believe you guys would trade safety & practice time to go with 2 days instead of 3 maybe even 4 or 5 in a row if a track day is held prior to an April round. :wtf:

I have been racing for over 12 years now and have had nothing but praise for the April round. You guys who wine about weather, are you also the same ones who pack up and go home when it is raining?? WE ALL HAVE SAME CONDITIONS!   :whine:

Sure I would rather ride in perfect conditions but to trade 3 days to 2 days and how will we fit in the whole ASRA? Kevin, if you here guys complaining now wait till after that weekend! I will speak for all the others who are to afraid to voice their opinions about sticking to the April round.

How about the guys who will be doing both CCS & AMA? They need to take how many days off of work to make that happen? Let's see a full week or more.  Explain that to the big man upstairs in the office.

You know for all the complaining I have heard about the 05 snow blowing round. I enjoyed it. My times were in the 24 to 25 range when it was only 40 degrees out. My AMA times were only in high 23 to low 24's. Bottom line is if it is too cold in your head it is going to be too cold out. I have and idea for you. MOVE!!! There are regional series in Florida if you would like.

If CCS could come up with a date later in the season sure that would be better but only 2 days and trading safety. Riders only getting a minimal amount of practice will never reach their full potential of speed by the end of the weekend. Road America is a huge track that you only get 1/2 the laps or less on and it takes more time to learn it. If CCS can't come up with a weekend date later in the year I say keep the April round.

How about like back in the old days with 2 rounds at Elkhart Lake. I remembered tons of riders at that time filling the grid.

Alright you newbie racers come at me and knock me out with the comments. :kicknuts:

  Somebody has gotta refer back to the momentarily non-racing leather specialist (A.K.) per CCS then, maybe, having dibs on the 3-4 day weekend in '08. Fri-Mon?

 What does Rd. Am. say about that Kevin? Can they make such a commitment this far out or will we be cramping their WSBK style by then?   :wah:  

Shit Farrell, tell us how you really feel.  :kissy:

Keep the Apirl date, 2 days at that track are't enough.

Oh yeah.......almost forgot :kicknuts:

J Farrell,

I know in my case I'm certainly not a fast guy by any means, just to make that clear up front.

I certainly have raced in just about every weather condition: 4" of snow on Saturday which stayed until the next day in the grass at Blackhawk Farms in '97 - temps in the 30's - crashed in the snow at 80+ MPH, I've raced in 100* heat many times, I've raced in rain at Putnam that was so blinding and it was so dark that going down the front straight I couldn't see 30' in front of me and almost ran over a crashing racer because of that, and on and on. The only condition that adversely effects me to the point of becoming a safety issue is heat, and I know when I can't run any longer in it so I pull off or don't go out at all. I will go out in basically any weather.

My opinion on weather is based on the fact that if your gonna pay a mother load of money to race at an event, why would you want to add insult to that injury by doing it in adverse weather conditions season after season? I think everyone (except for those that thrive in adverse weather conditions) would rather race at RA when the weather is DECENT (not perfect) - especially for the amount of money being spent per racer. Every season I go to RA wishing it will be like what it use to be at the old 2nd events. I understand like Kevin said that the later event saw less entries, but if I remember correctly that was also when we had 2 events at RA per season. RA is a 'destination track' for many, I think if there were only 1 event available for a season (that wasn't conflicting with another CCS or AMA event) that was later in the season, and was a 3 day national event, I feel very strongly it would do well. Trying to compare a later 1/2 of the season event at RA to the ones from the past isn't really that accurate since we had 2 events per season back then, plus I would much rather go to a Northern US high speed track like RA in August than a more Southern track like Heartland Park at that same time where your going to fry your ass off all weekend.

Again this is just my opinion, and I certainly am not attacking you J Farrell, I'm just pointing out WHY I feel the way I do. In my opinion I would much rather have the 3 day National event at some time during the season, but I would probably do the shorter compressed one if that's all that was available.  :cheers:

79 voters? Come on people put a voice on this thing either way. This is not a representative vote for the number of people that race at RA. This doesn't have to be a scientific, accurate vote of all racers but it needs more input than this.

And I for one don't want to hear a bunch of whining, hissy fits from people that didn't vote.

Spread the word on this to all racers and get something close to a real number of racers who will attend this event either date.

Jason Farrell is a racer.

He'll race in any condition.  However, in this age of track days and gentlemen racers, down and dirty racers like Jason are less of the norm.

Jason, unfortunately, CCS needs to have events during profitable opportunities.  When the FUSA purses were better, it seemed to attract more riders.  Was that April of 2001 that set the record for entries at 2025?

Having a Road America date in April is kind of like scheduling an ice race for December 15th.  Weather could go either way, but lately it's been likely that the weather is unfavorable to getting racers of any kind to race.

This is another part of the reason I am closing the Wegman Fund. It takes just too much of my time away from my family to do it.

Now, one of the biggest weekends of the race season is going to be on Memorial Day weekend which previously I had with my family. I have traditionally spent this time at my American Legion post with my family, watched their parade and had a great time with and honored the many military veterans I know.

If this race happens on Memorial Day I won't be there. Not that it makes any difference to anyone on this board but it's just my position.

Weather be damned, there are more inportant things in life, at least for me.

Plus side to this is I could now make the pool league playoffs that I have passed up the last many years so I could be at RA. They were always on that same April CCS weekend at RA.  :cheers:

It seems people FORGOT we used to race the first weekend in April at BHF also. Ya know its gonna be a fun day when you see PLOWS on track. :D

The poll was enlightening and just so you know, the staff members that could get off work were all for it, but when 50% of your workers couldn't make it, it became a moot point in my book....No Staff, No Race.....

Fact is that entries decline on average through a season, regardless where you start at, there are less entries by the end of a long, tiring and financially draining season.

If Road America was to offer us a weekend later in the year, it would probably be a CCS only Twin Sprint over two days. Two rounds of practice on Saturday, one on Sunday about 20 minutes each....to run a traditional schedule like Blackhawk, you would have to be willing to pay $150 for your first entry and $100 for each additional to raise the $70,000 nned to pay track rent, insurance, etc..and that would also require we got an average turnout of 610 entries....a tough projection at those entry prices.

Unless something major changes for our 2007 Rd Am weekend, we will probably run a two day CCS Twin Sprint with STT or someone else hosting a Friday practice.

Quote from: J Farrell / Speed Tech Motorsp on September 16, 2006, 10:25:41 PM
:banghead:

Alright now....
Let's see. I have seen nothing but all you complainers on here. I can't believe you guys would trade safety & practice time to go with 2 days instead of 3 maybe even 4 or 5 in a row if a track day is held prior to an April round. :wtf:

I have been racing for over 12 years now and have had nothing but praise for the April round. You guys who wine about weather, are you also the same ones who pack up and go home when it is raining?? WE ALL HAVE SAME CONDITIONS!   :whine:

Sure I would rather ride in perfect conditions but to trade 3 days to 2 days and how will we fit in the whole ASRA? Kevin, if you here guys complaining now wait till after that weekend! I will speak for all the others who are to afraid to voice their opinions about sticking to the April round.

How about the guys who will be doing both CCS & AMA? They need to take how many days off of work to make that happen? Let's see a full week or more.  Explain that to the big man upstairs in the office.

You know for all the complaining I have heard about the 05 snow blowing round. I enjoyed it. My times were in the 24 to 25 range when it was only 40 degrees out. My AMA times were only in high 23 to low 24's. Bottom line is if it is too cold in your head it is going to be too cold out. I have and idea for you. MOVE!!! There are regional series in Florida if you would like.

If CCS could come up with a date later in the season sure that would be better but only 2 days and trading safety. Riders only getting a minimal amount of practice will never reach their full potential of speed by the end of the weekend. Road America is a huge track that you only get 1/2 the laps or less on and it takes more time to learn it. If CCS can't come up with a weekend date later in the year I say keep the April round.

How about like back in the old days with 2 rounds at Elkhart Lake. I remembered tons of riders at that time filling the grid.

Alright you newbie racers come at me and knock me out with the comments. :kicknuts:

I have to agree.  2 days for a full race weekend that includes ASRA?   Leave the original date as is or at least a traditional weekend event.  Let NESBA handle the practice day. 

and Jason Ferrell can't even get out of his own parking lot on a Spree with out crashing.   :kicknuts: :biggrin: 

Quote from: CCS on September 18, 2006, 12:24:24 PM
The poll was enlightening and just so you know, the staff members that could get off work were all for it, but when 50% of your workers couldn't make it, it became a moot point in my book....No Staff, No Race.....

Fact is that entries decline on average through a season, regardless where you start at, there are less entries by the end of a long, tiring and financially draining season.

If Road America was to offer us a weekend later in the year, it would probably be a CCS only Twin Sprint over two days. Two rounds of practice on Saturday, one on Sunday about 20 minutes each....to run a traditional schedule like Blackhawk, you would have to be willing to pay $150 for your first entry and $100 for each additional to raise the $70,000 nned to pay track rent, insurance, etc..and that would also require we got an average turnout of 610 entries....a tough projection at those entry prices.

Unless something major changes for our 2007 Rd Am weekend, we will probably run a two day CCS Twin Sprint with STT or someone else hosting a Friday practice.

So, if I am reading this correctly then ASRA will not be at RA in 2007?

Quote from: extrakt0r on September 18, 2006, 04:04:38 PM
So, if I am reading this correctly then ASRA will not be at RA in 2007?

You are NOT reading it correctly

Quote from: Garth on September 18, 2006, 04:48:20 PM
You are NOT reading it correctly

Ok...You are probably right, but this one line keeps getting me:

"Unless something major changes for our 2007 Rd Am weekend, we will probably run a two day CCS Twin Sprint with STT or someone else hosting a Friday practice."

Either Kevin means Thursday for Pratice OR we are going to have a typical 3 Day ASRA Event weekend in two days...

It is late and I am out of Coffee, so bear with me! LOL

He's talking about the proposed May date - not the April opener.  I think.

Quote from: Garth on September 18, 2006, 02:58:28 PM
and Jason Ferrell can't even get out of his own parking lot on a Spree with out crashing.   :kicknuts: :biggrin: 

There's nothing shamefull about crashing a spree there Garth, as we've shown you a couple of times; now flipping a Zuma while doing a stand-up is another story....whooops :banghead:

Just don't send us back to St. Louis in March...  It's not far enough South to be warm...  I'm still thawing out from that shit...

Camping at Blackhawk in '89? it was 29 degrees when we got up Saturday morning....Jr. and I were camping in a tent for the weekend. Yup, it were chilly but we didn't whine, OK maybe a little   :whine: , but we went out and raced.

Quit all the pissing and moaning about a little weather and get on with it already.  :preachon:

I'm done now...............