What's a fast laptime for 600's and 1000's Amatuers at Gingerman?
You'll see the winners in the 1:28 range I would expect. Maybe a touch faster.
Sub 1:30 is VERY good for an AM.
1000's have zero advantage over a 600 at gingerman. It's too tight.
(caveat - yes, I suppose in the hands of someone who could seriously take advantage of the HP on the 2 tiny straights (1378' & 1423'), perhaps it might make a .5 second difference, but for 99.99% of those who will be in attendance it will make no difference)
I did my first trackdays which was this year. My first two events were Road America and Putnam. I then went to a Gingerman test and tune. What a difference in tracks. They really are short straights. When I was there, there was dip around the apex of the corner that is before the start finish straight. How do you guys deal with that spot? I'm new, but hope to go back soon.
I just run over the bump through the last corner connecting to the front straight.
I am asking this laptime question because I'd like to challenge myself and run the SV in the money race.
Ah, grasshoppa, good luck!
Nice to meet ya in New Orleans, as well!! :cheers:
Yea brotha! Go buy yourself a race bike, you've worked saftety crew long enough my friend!
No fast racers on here want to give up a lap time they ran to world huh? Is it that big of a secret?
I gave you lap times above... You will find them very accurate.
last year ran 1:31s and finished top 5...if your not @ least in the 1:29s your not gonna win as an am :wah:
BTW that was in mwgp :thumb:
Last year on my 04 R1 my best times were low 31's...I had consistant top 5's at Gingerman Last year...If you can run in the 29's I think you could win races as am AM there...
I would imagine the Fast Experts are in the low 20's maybe high teens???
And I agree with Jeff, Gingerman (along with just about every other MW/GP Track) sucks on a 1000, which is why I race a 600 now... :biggrin:
Thank you very much guys :cheers:
Winning experts are like 25's...
I think Robbie Jensen set the track record somewhere in the 23's or 4's last year.
I could be mistaken though.....Jeff....?
Paul
Polar-Optics
I belive it was 24s paul-robbies record- Edgar would know, hes robbies biggest fan, my fatass was in the 26-27 range 1st outing. 2nd time around 28s and the motor blew.
Oh ya 600.
Pauly, I think he did get into the 23's, but maybe not. I know I ran a 27 before I destroyed my bike in a most spectacular crop-dusting of the infield with titanium. Pretty sure I was on a 26 lap at that point. There's just so much a rear tire can take accelleration wise when at maximum lean... I found it!
As a generality, low 20's are basically impossible.
Mid 20's are fast expert
High 20's are average expert, very fast amateur
Low 30's are average amateur
Mid 30's slow amateur
Jeff can you give me an idea of how big the track is i saw the map with the lengths of the straights but i can picture it can you compair the track length to Blackhawk and Mid West tracks we've been to so far.
i ride a 1000 and still not 100% sure i want to drive 12 hours to race this one.
thanks
Rob,
I have onboard video from Gingerman on my website from last year...
www.teamsimoneracing.com
Ease with the throtle youll be fine, its too much fun to miss this track, u w ill learn alot at gingerman.
It's been my favorite track for the last 3 years. I absolutely love it. It is about the same length as blackhawk, but it is more technical. The corners flow well. Ameneties(sp?) are probably the best you will find. Clean, stocked and free showers & bathrooms. Excellent camping. Good reliable power. Excellent spectator areas. Good food.
12 hrs? That's a damned long hike. But I drive nearly that to get to MAM and Topeka, so yeah, I'd say G-man is worth it.
One thing about the track. It was laid in 3 strips so there are 2 seams around the entire track. This either helps or hurts you. It's pretty much all mental from my perspective. It messes with peoples heads, but you can ride right over it without issue. Just use the seams as a reference point.
14-15 Hours from Kansas City...Made the trip twice last year!!!
Blackhawk is like 1.98 mi. Gingerman is 1.88
The laptimes alone tell you how technical it is... but it's technical in a good way. It flows nice in my opinion.
Quote from: Jeff on July 21, 2006, 02:38:48 PM
Blackhawk is like 1.98 mi. Gingerman is 1.88
The laptimes alone tell you how technical it is... but it's technical in a good way. It flows nice in my opinion.
Quote from: extrakt0r on July 21, 2006, 02:36:47 PM
14-15 Hours from Kansas City...Made the trip twice last year!!!
YOU ARE A TROOPER!!!!
It's 18 or 19 hours to freakin Daytona for me from northern Illinois!
Damn dude!
Like I said you will learn alot at the track, Jeff is 100% right on his references to the track.
would have to say its one of the best places we go.
Just go to mylaps.com and check the times....oh wait
??????
Quote from: Bigsexy on July 20, 2006, 09:02:21 PM
Jeff can you give me an idea of how big the track is i saw the map with the lengths of the straights but i can picture it can you compair the track length to Blackhawk and Mid West tracks we've been to so far.
i ride a 1000 and still not 100% sure i want to drive 12 hours to race this one.
thanks
Hey Rob. Dont worry I havent been on the track ever either. If yah dont want to come out I wont mind....lol J/K man hope to see you out there.
J.J. AM#51
Quote from: grasshopper on July 19, 2006, 04:32:42 PM
No fast racers on here want to give up a lap time they ran to world huh? Is it that big of a secret?
for reference my best time there as an amateur was 1'29.3" on an '01 gsxr600.
Quote from: grasshopper on July 19, 2006, 11:04:14 AM
I just run over the bump through the last corner connecting to the front straight.
I am asking this laptime question because I'd like to challenge myself and run the SV in the money race.
How did ya do?
i got 1:31.065 last week, this is my first year of racing and i hoope soon i will by on hi 20s
I don't have the exact time but I was told by Meghan that I ran in the 1:25's while I was leading the Expert GTU on Saturday - well that was before shit went to hell in a hand basket and I had to drop off the pace..... :wah:
awwwe Scotty, did you get that basket off the front of your bike?
The Track record is a 1:23:004 by Robbie Jensen on his Suz 750 , Larry Denning had it at 1:23:006 before that. Tony did a 23:7 in ungp qualifying sun. Opie and Andy F did some 24's also
I was in awe as they cut through the pack and passed me like I was standing next to my bike eating a ham sandwich, but it pretty much sucked for any Yam/Hon guys who got bumped out of money...
Quote from: Jeff on July 31, 2006, 10:41:40 PM
I was in awe as they cut through the pack and passed me like I was standing next to my bike eating a ham sandwich, but it pretty much sucked for any Yam/Hon guys who got bumped out of money...
Actually i don't believe the races they ran paid any Yam/Hon money. They only finished the GTU and GTO race. If the Yam/Hon guys got bumped it was because of other local guys bumping them.
I know that on Sun they were registered for the supersport races which were hon/yam money. With them pulling out of ULSS, I came home with a paycheck. That was very nice... Had it been dry though, it would have been fruitless for me I fear...
It was cool to have them out though. Some of the CCS boys definitely gave them a run for their money...
How about grasshopper?
Grasshopper kept his skirt on and stayed home :ass:
hey fellow squid racer. Since I didn't get the chance to say it to him before I left, tell Kenny that if I ever catch him bouncing off the revlimiter non-stop on the 2 board again, I'm gonna reach over and shut his freaking bike off... That's just plain abuse...
Quote from: Jeff on August 01, 2006, 09:42:49 AM
Some of the CCS boys definitely gave them a run for their money...
Um, yeah...if they didn't have something important to do the coming week, I'd say fine, but...
I think he learned that from Thorsen. I have been on his back about starts since I smoked him on film at the last Blackhawk. According to him, he is the launch master :blahblah:. Next time he does it, just drop kick him in the head on the grid
Quote from: Super Dave on August 01, 2006, 11:08:50 AM
Um, yeah...if they didn't have something important to do the coming week, I'd say fine, but...
Can you clarify?
As in, we'd have seen 21's out of them if they weren't running Mid Ohio this week?
Sorry. Just trying to say they were impressive, in a manner of watching a professional boxer whip the shit out of a pack of cub-scouts, and I enjoyed it when a couple of lowly scouts managed a jab here & there.
Quote from: Jeff on August 01, 2006, 11:23:16 AM
Just trying to say they were impressive, in a manner of watching a professional boxer whip the shit out of a pack of cub-scouts, and I enjoyed it when a couple of lowly scouts managed a jab here & there.
So, Opie and Tony aren't CCS licensed experts like anyone else on the grid? I don't get your Pro boxer/cub scout analogy...seems like you want to make the regular pack of regional experts the victim of some other guys that race.
21's that day? Don't know. You tell me about the condition of the track? Same as it was when the previous times the lap record was broken? Where did they start?
Bottomline is that you had some very good CCS experts that don't race in the area show up on a track that they don't race regularly and do well. I'm sure that given their previous experiences in understanding how to qualify, they could have dropped well into the 24's and maybe into the 23's. If conditions were right, 22's.
Quote from: cshaffer89 on August 01, 2006, 09:54:49 AM
Grasshopper kept his skirt on and stayed home :ass:
How the hell can you place in the $ race from home?
Quote from: Super Dave on August 01, 2006, 11:49:46 AM
So, Opie and Tony aren't CCS licensed experts like anyone else on the grid? I don't get your Pro boxer/cub scout analogy...
Yes, Opie and Tony are obviously CCS licensed experts as they were allowed into the competition. In comparison (which I will write for the rest of the public since you never understand these things), Tiger Woods would quite likely be able to enter any local country club golf contest.
There was never a question as to whether they were allowed to enter. I never made any comment toward such.
To help you understand my analogy, I've arranged some simple questions for you:
1. Is AMA Pro Racing the highest level of roadracing competition available in the US?
Yes or No please.
2. Is CCS Club roadracing a lesser level of roadracing competition within the US in comparison to AMA Pro Racing?
Yes or No please.
Now, based on the answers of questions 1 and 2, let's apply the boxer/scout analogy. A Pro boxer would be at a significantly higher level of competition competence in fighting than your average cub-scout wouldn't he/she? (yes/no).
While BOTH the boxer and cubscout have the ability to fight, the outcome of a fight between them would be extremely predictable based on the level of competence/competition would it not? (yes/no).
Think about your answers to the above questions and then see if you can't better "get" the analogy I presented.
End of analogy... If I need to draw pictures and add color to them, I suppose I could do that.
Quoteseems like you want to make the regular pack of regional experts the victim of some other guys that race.
victim
n 1: an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance 2: a person who is tricked or swindled [syn: dupe]
By definition, I guess you could make the conclusion, yes. However, that was not my intention, as stated with comments such as:
"I was in awe as they cut through the pack"
"It was cool to have them out though."
"Just trying to say they were impressive"
Personally, I don't care if Mladin, Duhammel and the Haydens show up. I'll race with them. They just don't happen to show up though, I can only presume, because they understand their own level of competition and stay within it.
So Dave, now that I've gone through painstaking efforts to be crystal clear on my points, what is it that you're trying to convey?
When I state that some of the CCS experts gave these guys a run for their money and you state:
QuoteUm, yeah...if they didn't have something important to do the coming week, I'd say fine, but...
What are you trying to say here? I'm interpreting this as "there was no competition here. these local guys were a joke". That being the case, why bother showing up? The level of competition is obviously far beneath these two...
I find it funny that Jim replies with (what I interpreted as) kudos for the local guys while you reply with something quite different.
Quote from: Super Dave on August 01, 2006, 11:08:50 AM
Um, yeah...if they didn't have something important to do the coming week, I'd say fine, but...
So what excuse would you like to make for Meiring not hanging on to Andy at Blackhawk??
Quote from: JBraun on August 01, 2006, 12:45:59 PM
So what excuse would you like to make for Meiring not hanging on to Andy at Blackhawk??
They were there to break in motors... They weren't running races. Andy's a damned fast guy, I'll be the first to admit that, but I don't see him running in the top 10 at AMA weekends... Andy himself would laugh at anyone implying that Tony couldn't 'hang' with him...
Quote from: Super Dave on August 01, 2006, 11:49:46 AM
So, Opie and Tony aren't CCS licensed experts like anyone else on the grid? I don't get your Pro boxer/cub scout analogy...seems like you want to make the regular pack of regional experts the victim of some other guys that race.
21's that day? Don't know. You tell me about the condition of the track? Same as it was when the previous times the lap record was broken? Where did they start?
Bottomline is that you had some very good CCS experts that don't race in the area show up on a track that they don't race regularly and do well. I'm sure that given their previous experiences in understanding how to qualify, they could have dropped well into the 24's and maybe into the 23's. If conditions were right, 22's.
Actually Dave Tony did a 23.7 in ungp qualifiying sun morn on shagged tires without a really clear track. Opie did 24 something right behind Andy who did a 24 something i think. If Tony would have been able to do the ungp race i'm sure a 22 would have been attainable on new rubber.
Quote from: Jeff on August 01, 2006, 12:57:42 PM
They were there to break in motors... They weren't running races. Andy's a damned fast guy, I'll be the first to admit that, but I don't see him running in the top 10 at AMA weekends... Andy himself would laugh at anyone implying that Tony couldn't 'hang' with him...
I realize that, I was just picking fights :biggrin:
Andy also has a ton of laps around BHF. Jason Farrell has run top ten AMA at Elkhart, but he'd be quick to point out that it's because it's his home track, and he wouldn't expect those results elsewhere.
Quote from: JBraun on August 01, 2006, 12:45:59 PM
So what excuse would you like to make for Meiring not hanging on to Andy at Blackhawk??
Yes we were breaking in motors for laguna . and i believe Tony ran low 12's on Sat . Yes Tony and Opie are top ten AMA guys. We went to Blackhawk to test some things also as we can't afford private test sessions like the factory teams. I think tony had some pretty good laptimes for never seeing Blackhawk before , also he nor Opie had ever been to Gingerman before. I think for some of the fast guys having an opie or tony to ride with is a benefit for them to learn to go faster. We are planning on being at the Wegman weekend to ride before our last national. I think Larry Denning will be there too. It should be fun with those 3 guys riding. I have talked to both Tony and Opie and they asked if they should pull off as to not taking any points away from the local guys, my response was only if the local guys deserve the position. Them finishing 1st or 2nd does not change the points really. The other thing is there on 4&6 prepared bikes that according to most on this board blow up or don't work. I didn't seem to notice that at Blackhawk or Gingerman.
whats up? did u guys forget about me :ass:
Go back to sleep Brian. We were talking about fast guys... :biggrin: :lmao:
jeff, who did end up winning the yamahs money? i haven't talked to anyone and have not seen the results.
Quote from: racerhall on August 01, 2006, 04:37:06 PM
whats up? did u guys forget about me :ass:
No i just didn't want to drag you to the dark side!
Quote from: racerhall on August 01, 2006, 04:37:06 PM
whats up? did u guys forget about me :ass:
<singing off key> Unforgettable...thats what you are....
Quote from: racerhall on August 01, 2006, 04:37:06 PM
whats up? did u guys forget about me :ass:
LOL :biggrin: :biggrin:
Too bad I'm short a working leg... :lmao:
Quote from: spyderchick on August 01, 2006, 05:21:10 PM
<singing off key> Unforgettable...thats what you are....
Loooordy, lordy lord..... :kissy:
I won money! :cheers: You all know that us club racers get paid to race :lmao:
Quote from: DanO966 on August 01, 2006, 05:26:34 PM
Too bad I'm short a working leg... :lmao:
Not to mention a fully functional brain! :kicknuts:
That's OK, he was missing that from before the accident anyways...
Quote from: Bubba on August 01, 2006, 06:32:01 PM
Not to mention a fully functional brain! :kicknuts:
Actually Dan was singing just before this moment was captured.
dan face looks like a swashbuckler with that facial hair.
Doty brought home some wins for you, your AM guy Kurt was doing VERY well, and I brought home a 3rd in ULSS.
Quote from: TTR174 on July 31, 2006, 09:17:54 PM
awwwe Scotty, did you get that basket off the front of your bike?
Ahhh - the basket....Yes it's gone - along with the bicycle horn.....Now it's time for Mid Ohio....
Quote from: AM_#76 on August 01, 2006, 12:18:46 PM
How the hell can you place in the $ race from home?
I had to dump a bunch of money into my truck midweek before the race weekend. That ran into my racing budget. I'll be out at Blackhawk to show you a wheel.
Quote from: grasshopper on August 02, 2006, 04:30:32 PM
I had to dump a bunch of money into my truck midweek before the race weekend. That ran into my racing budget. I'll be out at Blackhawk to show you a wheel.
Sucks about your truck, Cool about BHF!!! look forward to some fun. ya doin the practice day?
Quote from: AM_#76 on August 02, 2006, 05:16:44 PM
Sucks about your truck, Cool about BHF!!! look forward to some fun. ya doin the practice day?
I mite take the Friday off. I'm pretty comfortable with BHF though. Don't really need a lot of practice time. Thats just spending more money in tires. Maybe we'll see. I'll be out with STT Septeptember 9th and 10th to get warmed up for the Wegman weekend. I'll be hunting you down from the back of the grid Guy.
Quote from: grasshopper on August 02, 2006, 11:57:39 PM
I mite take the Friday off. I'm pretty comfortable with BHF though. Don't really need a lot of practice time. Thats just spending more money in tires. Maybe we'll see. I'll be out with STT Septeptember 9th and 10th to get warmed up for the Wegman weekend. I'll be hunting you down from the back of the grid Guy.
Hey hey hey, isn't there some sort or rule regaurding guns and racen? see ya out there!!! What is your CCS number now?
Nick, just don't ass-pack the guy with the GU on his leathers when he blows the start...
Quote from: JonGu on August 03, 2006, 04:12:51 PM
Nick, just don't ass-pack the guy with the GU on his leathers when he blows the start...
What? You're not going to be out there on the 636? I thought for sure you got a practice day in with it. :err: