Ok, so after last year spending lots and lots of money racing every chance I had. This year I've been trying to convince myself to keep spending it.
Don't get me wrong I love racing, and would love to keep doing it but the cheapest I've been able to come up with is $550 for a weekend of 4 races, and local like BHF. Keep in mind this includes gate fees for me and my wife. This is pretty much a bare bones number assuming nothing goes wrong, and no crashes. It gets a little cheaper if my finishes are good enough to help cover tires, and possibly a race entry fee. But in the end that's about what I've come up with, and at that price I just can't justify it very well.
There are so many things I enjoy, one of which is dirt riding, where the whole family goes for maybe, maybe $100 per weekend and we have an absolute blast. What do others use as motivation, or an excuse to keep spending this kind of money.
This number is pretty much fuel to get there, entry fees, gate fees, tires, ok the one anemity power for the weekend.
So I'm interested in how others view this in relation to other things they would spend this kind of money on, and how much fun you can have doing those things as opposed to racing.
Dave,
Dirt Riding is an absolute blast, and from what I am gathering if you want to get into the supermoto scene that is way cheeper than road racing too. Flat track and TT racing is way fun too and way way less money than road racing.
Road racing is a sickness, and I'm sure most people will agree with me, we don't really know why we spend so much money in a weekend. We are sick and need help, it could be worse, we could be smoking crack.
Racing has become a lifestyle for me and my family.
If I couldn't race, I would still come out because I love the people and the environment.
We don't - Hunt, Fish, Ski, Bowl, Golf, etc etc etc. We race. "it's just what we do"
Lots of my neighbors have these $10k bass boats and cabins they go to. Comparatively, we're not so sick.
Don't you get a rush waiting on the grid with 20 or 30 other people staring down the green flag?
Man I get a rush showing up at the paddock after a 10 hour drive! ;D
Dave,
I'm right there with you...in fact, I think I may be one step closer to that decision than you. I'm 90% sure I will sell my 600RR and get a dirtbike for this summer.
Maybe we can ride dirt together...and save lots of cash this summer.
Yes, it IS a sickness and an adiction - but road racing has been the most fun I've ever had. I'm sure dirt will be fun too...but my main love is road racing!
QuoteLots of my neighbors have these $10k bass boats and cabins they go to. Comparatively, we're not so sick.
$10k is cheap... Most of those I know have $40-$60k boats... and then another $5k in gear.
Hell, my brother has +$20k in guns!
I do love racing, I do get a rush being on the grid, I am right there. But after 3yrs, I'm finding it harder to keep passing other things up to make it happen.
I also get a rush from dirt riding, no it's not the same and if I had endless amounts of money trust me I'd be dirt riding, racing, supermotard, flying somewhere over the winter that I have a bike stored and doing track days, all of the above. But in my real world situation after a while I have to look at money, and also time. The summers are always too short, especially now with my little guy riding it's not just me anymore with racing my wife loves it my kid enjoys it to some extent, but nothing like when he gets to ride his own bike. Or when we all go out on the boat, or a variety of other things that we all get to enjoy. Anyway that's just my situation and Jeff, I totally understand the lifestyle that is a LOT of what we get from it.
Anyway Pierre, let me know if you want to go riding man, we've been outdoors 3 times already this year, and rode twice indoors over the winter, so riding definitely isn't going out of the picture, no way no how.
The fact is YOUR FAMILY is the most important thing.
Do what ever makes Mama, and the little guy happy. If they are happy you are happy rite?
Racing comes second family comes first. No matter what.
We miss racing terribly.....
... we had four years of a lot of fun road racing, but now it's time to hunker down and get some stuff done to prepare for the future. Will we race again? Yep, but right now the house comes first.
To get the edge off, we ride our dirtbikes.
Dawn
And you will come back as Chi Town Hustlers?
QuoteI do love racing, I do get a rush being on the grid, I am right there. But after 3yrs, I'm finding it harder to keep passing other things up to make it happen.
I also get a rush from dirt riding, no it's not the same and if I had endless amounts of money trust me I'd be dirt riding, racing, supermotard, flying somewhere over the winter that I have a bike stored and doing track days, all of the above. But in my real world situation after a while I have to look at money, and also time. The summers are always too short, especially now with my little guy riding it's not just me anymore with racing my wife loves it my kid enjoys it to some extent, but nothing like when he gets to ride his own bike. Or when we all go out on the boat, or a variety of other things that we all get to enjoy. Anyway that's just my situation and Jeff, I totally understand the lifestyle that is a LOT of what we get from it.
Anyway Pierre, let me know if you want to go riding man, we've been outdoors 3 times already this year, and rode twice indoors over the winter, so riding definitely isn't going out of the picture, no way no how.
It's all about priorities. Everyone has them. Everyone's changes as we go through life. My priorities as a single college student are different than they are now, as a married working professional.
Things change. My priority right now is racing, and that's it. I don't buy new clothes, eat out a lot or anything. I'd rather save all my money and put it toward racing. Sure there are things that I wanna buy, like stuff for the truck, a flatscreen TV, new bedroom furniture, etc... but it's below the priority of racing, so I don't. If I didn't race.. hell yea, I'd be able to get all of that.. however, having all that stuff in place of racing isn't worth it to me.
Sickness? Yeah, that's good...
To have some longevity, you almost need to reinvent what you do in motorcycle road racing every so often. Different bikes offer different opportunities. Rather than running a series, you run specific events. Run with another organization. Or try hooking yourself up with another racer as a "crew chief" or something.
We can all talk about the financial problems associated where one can actuallyl count the money, or maybe come up with numbers that might be close...
But the emotional costs of racing and not racing are huge. The commitment that is necessary to keep going on at a particular pace is high. Sometimes one NEEDS to get off the ride for a bit and evaluate, change gears, wait, decide, reinvent, quit, start again...or not.
Yes it's a sickness.....this will be year # 11 for me. This year, due to getting married, I will only go to select races (no rain ).
njracer
QuoteOk, so after last year spending lots and lots of money racing every chance I had. This year I've been trying to convince myself to keep spending it.
Don't get me wrong I love racing, and would love to keep doing it but the cheapest I've been able to come up with is $550 for a weekend of 4 races, and local like BHF. Keep in mind this includes gate fees for me and my wife. This is pretty much a bare bones number assuming nothing goes wrong, and no crashes. It gets a little cheaper if my finishes are good enough to help cover tires, and possibly a race entry fee. But in the end that's about what I've come up with, and at that price I just can't justify it very well.
There are so many things I enjoy, one of which is dirt riding, where the whole family goes for maybe, maybe $100 per weekend and we have an absolute blast. What do others use as motivation, or an excuse to keep spending this kind of money.
This number is pretty much fuel to get there, entry fees, gate fees, tires, ok the one anemity power for the weekend.
So I'm interested in how others view this in relation to other things they would spend this kind of money on, and how much fun you can have doing those things as opposed to racing.
i'm there with ya. i raced for two years and am already retired. money was a factor (not the main one...but definitely up there). i averaged $1000 per weekend...that was with no crashes or bike improvements.
do whatcha gotta do. it's your decision....not us dorks.
You just reach a point where the well is dry. For me it happened when I needed all of 2004 to pay off my 2003 season. I'd probably have left the sport entirely if I hadn't gotten hooked up as a coach for Sportbike Track Time.
Nothing beats lining up for a green flag, but eventually there just isn't any more money! :(
money is whats keeping me from getting into racing. We've got a trackbike lines up, its just coming up with the 3K for the actual purchase of it. Then on top of that i've got to add the expenses of running it.
Road racing is tough on the pockets i see. Might not be too late to look back at SM again....
I am going to try to quote a wise man - but I may be slightly off "Roadracing is like a mixture of cocaine and heroin - but multiplied about 10 times"....I don't have a family that I have to support - so I guess I am in a different situation then some of you....Last year things went so wrong and I got so down on myself that I questioned the amount of money I was spending - but it came down to one simple thing - If you don't do this now there is a chance that lter in life you may not be able to.....And then your just going to say " what if".....Yeah I could go buy a house or fancy crap - but I would never get the satisfaction that I do with racing......Not all of us struggel to afford this sport - but the majority of us do - And I know for myself that it is well worth it and I wouldn't trade it for anything......I don't know what I would do with myself if I didn't race.......
Wasn't Peter Egan that said "motorcycle roadracing makes heroin addiction seem like a vague wish for something salty."
I race for the fame and the glory...oooh, and the chicks! Oooh, wait... and for the money too!!! OOh yeah, and the ability to tell peopl "Yeah, I race ninja bikes"!!!
It's the sight of all those sweaty, half-nekkid men in leather.
Seriously. It's the most fun I've had doing anything, EVER. Period. I wouldn't trade anything in the world for the experiences I've shared over the past few years (even though I could have bought a Porsche with what I've spent).
"Better a racer for 5 minutes than a spectator for a lifetime".
QuoteOOh yeah, and the ability to tell peopl "Yeah, I race ninja bikes"!!!
You mean on the pavement? Around an oval Like NASCAR? ;D
I've forced myself to have a balance of race weekends and track days that are local. Not going to every race weekend.
Ok so i only can go to a few a year, but thats all i can affoard.
This is a huge addiciton and i love it. and still want to accomplish more.
I have realized that i want to do it for more than the normal 2 or 3 years. so i have sacrificed doing the whole season for doing it for a few extra years.
Yea i struggle with what i could have done with the income that i spent on racing or track days. But hey its the reason i work, so i can enjoy somthing that i think is incredible.
I think the low cost of racing is one of the primary benefits with supermoto. When you compare entry fees, tire wear, crash damage, etc. between RR and SM the difference is huge. As SM grows there are more and more tracks popping up which is improving access to the sport. Most of the guys I race against are either motoX racers that were tired of the injuries or road racers that ran out of money.
My point is that before you hang up your leathers for good take a look at SM and see if it's for you.
Supermoto looks fun. I think I'm supposed to ride one or two this year.
But when I talk to the tire guys, the fastest motard guys are tearin' up tires like fast guys on road racers. So, if you're gonna run the top rung SM, I think you're still gonna drop a lot of cake. I can at least find used wheels for bikes, but you're gonna have to have SM wheels built. That's a big expense.
It's still bike racing though. So, it's an addiction yet too.
Dirtbike riding, Hare Scrambles, trail riding and enduro is probably the cheapest motorcycle racing/riding you can do.
Flat Track and TT is runner up.
The destruction of tires is way lower in the above than RR and SM.
I love racing and going to the track but the expense is hard to swallow. Vic is going in to year I believe 8 racing and we are seriously considering doing NESBA only this year just because of the cost of both of us running CCS. (I am not knocking CCS) The environment at the race track is amazing. It's one of the best experiences that I could as for even if I could have alot of the things I want if we did not race.
Yeah well after watching the second round of AMA Superbike last night, and dirt riding yesterday, I found myself mentally going through a race on the way to work this morning. So I may have to just dig deeper into the pockets. The biggest challenge is I still have to spend money to get the bike ready before I can even spend the money to race. So we'll see. Hopefully at a bare minimum I can make it to one or two events this year.
Hmm, we've chatted about this several times over SEVERAL beers over the last couple months. I think you are on the right path..stick to the family fun and get out on the road track when you can. I'll probably be sticking more to track days with a few races in there. Try to find that knob to turn between my ears to make me go faster!
Oh, I suggest a KTM450 w/ dirt and street tires..then let your crazy single friends ride it :)
I think this is yet another arguement as to why there shouldn't be Amateur contingency, all contingency should be moved to the Experts for deeper payouts into the field to help racers last longer in the sport. Amateur status is a stepping stone, not a destination, reward those who advance and stay in the sport, not those that just stop by to visit. :)
First, the new forum format is vastly an improvement on the old. I find the navigation much easier!
We all have our own Justifications for racing (or trying to race). I just try to ignore the cost and focus on the thrill of the race. When big bills come, I remember that my pilot friend has it worse and I don't golf. Works for me.
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on April 24, 2006, 10:46:37 PM
I think this is yet another arguement as to why there shouldn't be Amateur contingency, all contingency should be moved to the Experts for deeper payouts into the field to help racers last longer in the sport. Amateur status is a stepping stone, not a destination, reward those who advance and stay in the sport, not those that just stop by to visit. :)
Remember that amateur racing doesn't cost any less. The tires, entry and fuel is the same. I agree that it's a stepping stone, but what about the guys who never get to race as an expert because of money. Fast amateurs rely on contingency as much as anyone else. Without it they may never be experts.
All I know is it would be a lot easier to go racing if that was our only focus. However we're also planning for:
College for Renee
Home Improvements
Retirement
And those things that cannot be planned for...
What does that leave for racing? Not a whole hell of a lot. :(
< heavy sigh >
We're considering the SM route because there is a track about 30 minutes away from our house, it may be a less expensive proposition for us.
Dawn
P.S. However if we would win the lottery some day, that would change our outlook considerably. :D
I'll admit, I'm eyeing the supermoto route as well. It's hard to turn down $30 track days and $100 race weekends (with practice). We don't have too many full blown SM tracks around Chicago though. The minimoto route is a STRONG possibility (CR80 would be my bike of choice). Get to race, bang bars, lurid slides into corners, but at 1/3 of the cost. I'd be building a bike now but I just don't see any time for riding dirt, road, and SM this summer.
Quote from: JBraun on April 25, 2006, 12:10:03 PMRemember that amateur racing doesn't cost any less. The tires, entry and fuel is the same. I agree that it's a stepping stone, but what about the guys who never get to race as an expert because of money. Fast amateurs rely on contingency as much as anyone else. Without it they may never be experts.
Though it's true that Amateurs pay the same fees, in the Expert class you'll consume more of everything due to pushing harder. Fast Amateurs are less than a year away from going Expert, so I still don't see the need for Amateur contingency. How many subjects have there been about sand baggers staying Amateur for years due to the easy pickins' and contingency there? The way the contingency system is set-up currently encourages racers to stay Amateur as long as possible, what financial encouragement do racers have to go Expert (unless they plan on going Pro)? With the current system once racers go Expert their chances of getting any contingency is for the most part limited and will go almost exclusively to the really fast guys. How many AMA guys (or racers that should be racing Pro) do we have competing on a regular basis as Experts in CCS? Pretty much a given that when they show up that's where the contingency payouts are going, not complaining about it since it's allowed, but merely pointing out a fact. If you get use to (and start depending on) those nice contingency payouts as an Amateur, what are you planning on doing when you step it up a notch and go Expert and now don't get anything at all or very little? Amateur contingency sets you up for disappointment when you go Expert, unless your a blazingly fast Amateur that can run up front as an Expert.
I strongly believe this is a key area that needs to be addressed in getting racers to last longer in this sport, catering to those that have shown they are here to stay (if treated to the right incentives) will only help to increase the longevity of more racers. I want to make it perfectly clear that I'm not bashing Amateurs here (I was one myself in '96-'97, LOL), I just can't see the justification in not rewarding more of those who are committed to this very expensive hobby and encouraging them to stay by making it continually more affordable?
What you are suggesting sounds like "shutting the door behind you". If you want to move ams up more actively , I would say, "OK, maybe". But NO contingency for ANY amateurs. Nah, I'm not with you. :)
Anyway, I DO run a supermoto bike due to the reduced expense. I ran all the winter series supermoto races on one set of tires and while I was not a front runner, that just is not the point for me. I had a lot of fun and got much faster each outing... Supermoto racing is limited, but I can always do a CCS race here and there, too. ULWSB is a fun class that also doesn't eat tires and crashing on my bike is literally free. As long as it doesn' tumble, there is nothing to break. Going fast is fun, but going cheap is fun too :lol:
For me it was part of a life's dream-whats that worth? :err:
i have made it a point to make female friends close to all of the tracks.
that's enough to keep me cuming back :)
Quote from: CATMAN on April 25, 2007, 11:05:36 PM
For me it was part of a life's dream-whats that worth? :err:
+1
That's what I was thinking. :cheers:
Quote from: GSXR RACER MIKE on April 24, 2006, 10:46:37 PM
I think this is yet another arguement as to why there shouldn't be Amateur contingency, all contingency should be moved to the Experts for deeper payouts into the field to help racers last longer in the sport. Amateur status is a stepping stone, not a destination, reward those who advance and stay in the sport, not those that just stop by to visit. :)
Expert is a stepping stone, CCS is a feeder organization for ASRA is a feeder organization for AMA....... Who decided that CCS Experts are entitled and CCS Amateurs are not? Why is it OK to take away the Amateurs contingency but it's bad for the AMA riders to come and take away the Experts contingency? Last year was my first season with CCS and I raced ULWSB, a class that never had enough riders on the grid to generate contingency. I was just dumb enough to think that I was having fun anyway, I wish I had that luxury this year. (if you know me then you know what that means)
Quote from: Hawk on April 26, 2007, 12:22:58 AM
Expert is a stepping stone, CCS is a feeder organization for ASRA is a feeder organization for AMA....... Who decided that CCS Experts are entitled and CCS Amateurs are not? Why is it OK to take away the Amateurs contingency but it's bad for the AMA riders to come and take away the Experts contingency? Last year was my first season with CCS and I raced ULWSB, a class that never had enough riders on the grid to generate contingency. I was just dumb enough to think that I was having fun anyway, I wish I had that luxury this year. (if you know me then you know what that means)
:cheers: :thumb:
Hey all...interesting discussion, so I thought I'd weigh in. First - let me say this:
I'm baaack! :thumb: The need for racing just got to be too much, and after almost 3 years of retirement, I picked up a (mostly) race-prepped 05 SVS on Saturday, then faxed my AFM license app in, along with my filled out race entry form (with my AFM number space blank) for the races at Infineon (aka Sears Point) this weekend, got my AFM number via email on Sunday, then bought a trailer off of Craigslist from a guy in East Bay on Tuesday (I think it was Tuesday), and with any luck will be picking up a new helmet today or tomorrow (old one is pretty rashed). Oh, and I cleaned my leathers (thanks Alexa, for the instructions).
So why did I do this? Because racing just makes sense to me - I don't know why it makes sense, but it does. And in terms of what I do that I feel like I do well, there is almost nothing (including work) that I feel like I do as well - so it's good to do something that you feel like you do well. And that may be the biggest motivation for me. And for everything else- yes, there is mastercard.
I dont think the measure of a man will ever be defined by the number of days we worked, but by how others watched us live. I'm no candidate for any horizon awards, but when I come home from a track weekend, I feel like Nicky cruisin around with a flag. I've watched wealthy, powerful men with hugh homes throw themselves off the Bay Bridge, or drink and drug emselves to death. They never learned what it means to live. Roadracers are like the blue collar backbone of our nations fabric, one part hero, two parts stupid, we know how to be grateful for what we got, and endure through tough times and still crack a smile, that is what we leave our kids, the ability to face tough challenges and succeed. Even this thread is because of a man's concern for his family, finances and future, See ya at Summit. Art
Great stuff,Art. ?(S) If so, see ya on the lightweight line @ summit next weekend with a few recent upgrades!John
How did this turn into a pay out argument?
I have to agree that the "Expert" class is no more important than the "Amateur" class
We all have to start somewhere and trying to make the Amateur class riders feel like second class citizens is B.S.
All our money spends the same and we incur no less expense than a lot of Expert riders.
If you want to make more money, go get a better job. Don't try to hoard what little pay out there already is.
Chicks dig it
Quote from: Hawk on April 26, 2007, 12:22:58 AM
Expert is a stepping stone, CCS is a feeder organization for ASRA is a feeder organization for AMA....... Who decided that CCS Experts are entitled and CCS Amateurs are not? Why is it OK to take away the Amateurs contingency but it's bad for the AMA riders to come and take away the Experts contingency?
Well, I don't see why it's bad for "AMA riders" to take away "expert contingency". It's there and available. One just has to use one's skills to get it. After all, once you're and expert, you can get the points to apply for an AMA license. So, AMA Pro racers are just experts. No one is entitled to the contingency, etc.
Amateur contingency.
Now, for most of club road racing history, amateurs and novices were riders that were working to try and become experts. That was the real feeder. The learning happens as an amateur/novice. Motorcycling wasn't as popular fifteen and twenty years ago, but grids were big. Yeah, it was expensive then too.
I do feel that amateur contingency has hopelessly corrupted the amateur/expert system as there are those that move from organization to organization as amateurs, and those riders that only do a small number of races a year to maintain their status even though they are extremely skilled and competent riders and fully understand the sport and how to go quick even.
Quote from: Super Dave on April 28, 2007, 12:42:43 AM
Well, I don't see why it's bad for "AMA riders" to take away "expert contingency". It's there and available. One just has to use one's skills to get it. After all, once you're and expert, you can get the points to apply for an AMA license. So, AMA Pro racers are just experts. No one is entitled to the contingency, etc.
I didn't say it was bad for the AMA guys to come and earn contingency in CCS Expert, I just find it odd that the people that are saying that Amateurs should not get contingency are saying that it is bad for the AMA guys to come and steal their contingency. Kind of a having your cake and eating it too syndrome.
Quote from: Super Dave on April 28, 2007, 12:42:43 AM
Amateur contingency.
Now, for most of club road racing history, amateurs and novices were riders that were working to try and become experts. That was the real feeder. The learning happens as an amateur/novice. Motorcycling wasn't as popular fifteen and twenty years ago, but grids were big. Yeah, it was expensive then too.
So this would mean that once you are moved from CCS Amateur to Expert you are ready for the AMA grids? No, as you stated you need to earn a certain point requirement to apply for an AMA license. Therefore, CCS Expert is a learning ground to get the experience one needs to move on to the AMA, theoretically.
Quote from: Super Dave on April 28, 2007, 12:42:43 AM
I do feel that amateur contingency has hopelessly corrupted the amateur/expert system as there are those that move from organization to organization as amateurs, and those riders that only do a small number of races a year to maintain their status even though they are extremely skilled and competent riders and fully understand the sport and how to go quick even.
Properly policing the cherry picking in the Amateur ranks is one thing, completely separate however from contingency. How about the AMA guys that have to come race club level to earn contingency petition to have contingency eliminated from club level so that that money can be paid in the AMA ranks. My bet is that such a plan would be met by howls of protest from the Experts.
I might add that this is from someone who has never earned a dime of contingency in any rank and who could care less about contingency. I have one half of a season of racing with ANY organization and am forced by injuries sustained outside of racing to take a season off before I return to racing. I do this because I enjoy the hell out of it (and in the spirit of the thread that is my justification). I just can't stand people who have to take away from others so that they can have more, whether it be corporate greed, government pork, or expert contingency.
I say give all the payout to the Expert Class. And charge them double the entry fee to race as well. That would make it fair, no?
racing...it is what it is. Ive been riding bikes since I was four years old. if i havnt got sick of it in 19 years im pritty sure ill be doing it for the rest of my life. but dont let it be a burden its supposed to be fun. instead of runnign for points just race when you got the cash saved up do every other race or what not. and what dave said about switching it up couldnt be any truer. and going to dirt is one way to switch things up. i went from dirt bikes to road race bikes to fourwheelers to street bikes and who knows whats next. just dont let it burden you we all do it cus we love riding and the people we do it with soo rock on!!!!
Jim
Quote from: xb9racer on April 29, 2007, 12:30:43 AM
I say give all the payout to the Expert Class. And charge them double the entry fee to race as well. That would make it fair, no?
I completely agree with the extra charge for expert events, but I'd like fewer classes too.
Quote from: Hawk on April 28, 2007, 11:55:16 PM
I didn't say it was bad for the AMA guys to come and earn contingency in CCS Expert, I just find it odd that the people that are saying that Amateurs should not get contingency are saying that it is bad for the AMA guys to come and steal their contingency. Kind of a having your cake and eating it too syndrome.
I'll reply a bit just based on some ideas that I've got after a couple years of this.
You have good points, Paul.
I would have to say that there was a little less stupid stuff going on when there wasn't so much contingency in the amateur ranks. Riders were a bit more apt to try and get home safely rather than trying to get a bunch, or some, contingency money with a move that shows where their skill runs out. I can understand where you're coming from. But you are also bright enough to have chosen a lightweight bike to race. I started on a GSXR750, and there are now a good number of racers that start on faster 600's and even 1000's.
Quote from: Hawk on April 28, 2007, 11:55:16 PM[
So this would mean that once you are moved from CCS Amateur to Expert you are ready for the AMA grids? No, as you stated you need to earn a certain point requirement to apply for an AMA license. Therefore, CCS Expert is a learning ground to get the experience one needs to move on to the AMA, theoretically.
Theoretically, yeah. No qualifying in CCS anymore. So, that isn't a help. Even some riders with enough points and years of experience aren't ready for the AMA. Even if you get the license, you still have to qualify at the AMA race too. Dirt track racing might be a better way to prepare a rider for the idea that not working on riding techniques and the set up will leave you, well, not racing when you don't make the cut during a heat or semi. Going home is a good motivator.
But a rider with an AMA Pro Road Racing license is an expert.
I think that this thread got a bit off topic - but I will comment a little... So after a year from when this thread was started - I still feel the same as I did then... I love racing for everything that it is - even all the BS.... I say that having to justifying why - just means that you have other things in your present situation that are more important - take care of what matters most to you and everything will fall into place..
To comment on the contingency situation - and don't take what I am saying wrong - but I feel that Amateurs should get some sort of contingency, but not enough so that they should want to stay in the Amateur ranks because of it...Isn't the goal for every racer to make it to an Expert - or further??? Maybe that's just the way I think tho... Policing of who runs amateur is really up to the club that runs the series or race - and maybe should be looked at a bit closer...
Fewer classes overall would be good - qualifying within a certain timed percentage for A Pro-Expert class, with a higher entrance fee and a good payout would certainly get the local expert more accustomed to the reality of what an AMA race is really like(You make the show or you pack up) And none of this Six lap crap - I mean this class would be a mileage distance - so each track would be different - more laps at Blackhawk - less at Road America - lets say 30 miles.....
Fewer classes means more time for longer races - for everyone - even with a Pro-Expert race that takes 30 min out of the day.... Wow what a great idea - think about it, you pay a little more for the class - but get more laps per race... I would be all over that - I don't know about you guys/girls, but a six lap race at Blackhawk is pretty short....
Anyway - just some thoughts before I go to bed here..
See everyone at Blackhawk in two weeks - Should be fun :biggrin:
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on April 30, 2007, 04:41:53 AM
See everyone at Blackhawk in two weeks - Should be fun :biggrin:
Great! An AMA rider coming to cherry pick us little ole CCS racers! :biggrin:
Quote from: Super Dave on April 29, 2007, 10:31:03 PM
I completely agree with the extra charge for expert events, but I'd like fewer classes too.
CCS already does charge twice for Expert events and has fewer classes. Its called A.S.R.A.
Quote from: SCOTTY727 on April 30, 2007, 04:41:53 AM
To comment on the contingency situation - and don't take what I am saying wrong - but I feel that Amateurs should get some sort of contingency, but not enough so that they should want to stay in the Amateur ranks because of it...Isn't the goal for every racer to make it to an Expert - or further??? Maybe that's just the way I think tho... Policing of who runs amateur is really up to the club that runs the series or race - and maybe should be looked at a bit closer...
Fewer classes overall would be good - qualifying within a certain timed percentage for A Pro-Expert class, with a higher entrance fee and a good payout would certainly get the local expert more accustomed to the reality of what an AMA race is really like(You make the show or you pack up) And none of this Six lap crap - I mean this class would be a mileage distance - so each track would be different - more laps at Blackhawk - less at Road America - lets say 30 miles.....
Fewer classes means more time for longer races - for everyone - even with a Pro-Expert race that takes 30 min out of the day.... Wow what a great idea - think about it, you pay a little more for the class - but get more laps per race... I would be all over that - I don't know about you guys/girls, but a six lap race at Blackhawk is pretty short....
Many of the contingency payouts are half for the amateur field right now and I agree with that but not the elimination of amateur contingency.
The problem with reducing the number of classes in the club racing arena is that you now have to get the latest and greatest equipment in order to have a chance at a finish that will give you any satisfaction and reason to come back. The classes on the chopping block are the ones that support the older equipment or the combination of 2 and 4 stroke machines. This will send the owners of the older bikes packing which is I'm sure the reason organizations have not done this. Furthermore the reason that many want less classes is to make the races longer. Last year was my first year racing, I have ridden motorcycles on the street for 25 years and I could not finish a GT race at the begining of the season, if you make the races longer then your first timers are going to come out once and say to themselves "Whoa". Currently club racing organizations are bemoaning the growth of track day organizations and the drain it is putting on the coffers, you don't fix that situation by making it more difficult to make the jump.
Starting off with looking for a simple relief on the wallet would be the first thing. How about the venue letting racer and one person with them in the gate for free....you never go racing alone right? When I go racing i bring a wife and three boys. So for the price of them watching me race I give up three races...the venue gets the concessions thats for sure.
But what do I know, I am just counting down for those days of formula forty.....
But what do I know, I am just counting down for those days of formula forty.....
Cherry pickin the most educated and still racinging, Grecian formula group?
Quote from: dmikey34 on May 01, 2007, 07:50:03 AM
Starting off with looking for a simple relief on the wallet would be the first thing. How about the venue letting racer and one person with them in the gate for free....you never go racing alone right? When I go racing i bring a wife and three boys. So for the price of them watching me race I give up three races...the venue gets the concessions thats for sure.
But what do I know, I am just counting down for those days of formula forty.....
Yeah, I think everyone wants that in some form or another.
But...
Being a racer or a crew member has and implication of risk. Therefore, the purchase of a gate pass by racers covers the cost of insurance and also shows an entrants' recognition of some of those risks that they signed for.
As an example, some have dual duties at an event. One might change tires at an event as a vendor or something. Sometimes a vendor fee will cover the cost of vendor access, but it doesn't cover the cost of the insurance for a racer or a competitor crew member.
just popped into my head.
if a person signs a form that says we don't hold anything against the track owners and their parents and blah blah blah... what is their insurance for besides the normal fire, earth quake, and stuff like that???
i guess someone could find something to sue anyone for now days. but was is the main insurance concern?
You can't sign your rights away by waiver... Take it to a court and file a suit. That signature doesn't mean jack shit in almost all cases. Why have it? Because it discourages people from suing and reduces insurance costs because it gives lawyers the slightest leg to stand on. Perhaps they can get a sympathetic jury...
yea the law can be turned and twisted and interpreted in many ways. its good sometimes and bad others.