Check the RRW site.
Roger Edmondson gets himself back into motorcycle roadracing. With john Ulrich on the same advisory board. Talk about strange bed fellows.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=25224
Real interesting...
Not THAT sounds like fun! Kimmie? Drag out the TL! We's gonna be BACKMARKERS! ;D
This could be a good thing for the sport.
Only thing I don't like is the spec rules.
ya dave, spec rules would suck. Close racing, low cost, everybody has got a chance. Your right I don't know. It's just killed World Superbike!
Quoteya dave, spec rules would suck. Close racing, low cost, everybody has got a chance. Your right I don't know. It's just killed World Superbike!
;D ;D ;D
Quoteya dave, spec rules would suck. Close racing, low cost, everybody has got a chance. Your right I don't know. It's just killed World Superbike!
Well, if you only want to do that series...and you have obligations to another manufacturer...
Close racing? Dunlop supplies all the factory teams in the AMA, and most of the privateers...hasn't always meant that it was close racing.
Cost? Will the tires be supplied in the entry? And then how many tires will you use? And how much is the entry?
Everybody has a chance...
Sometimes, people run out of talent...LOL! Tires still don't help that.
Don't get me wrong, I like the idea. I liked it more when you weren't required to use an unleaded racing fuel and a spec tire.
Rightttttt Dave, I forgot about our obligations to the manufatures all of us have on this forum. Let me go check my contract right now............Yup, Mastercard AND Visa says I can charge anything I friggnn please!!!!
Is Dunlop the "spec" tire in AMA?? uuuMMMMMM?? NO.[/i][/u]
Are ther tires in your entry fee include now? Mine are not. So we can asssumeee they are not included. How many tires you think you need and how many I need is my secret!
Everybody has a chance? ummmm.........YUP!
Nobody has a chance if those dang illegal Buell's are allowed in there........just look what they did at Daytona!!! Oh, never mind........none of them finished. ;D ;D ;D Guess all those protests won't fly now.
Fixed your stuff there Jason...
Dunlop a spec tire. No, but Dunlop pays to play. So, it has the whole factory paddock. You've got others playing, but basically, it has been Dunlop primarily for a long time.
There are riders that have obligations. If their obligations won't let them race on those tires, well...
WSB with the Pirelli spec stuff...how many AMA teams/riders entered the event at Laguna when they had it that last time?
My entry fees do not have tires on them...because we don't have spec rules. I have the choice to make deals or decisions.
Another series can make the choice for riders what they will use. They can it up anyway they want. Seems like there is an article somewhere that someone talked about the cost of tires for WSB for a team.
Again, it's a choice to enter the series.
You gonna give it a go?
Specs don't bother me in this series. If it keeps the factories and other big name teams out, gee, it just may let some others shine and bring some opportunity their way.
The rule book isn't out yet so let's wait and see what happens.
I can see a flood of SVs and the new Kaws out there in lightweight but what about big bikes? Bue'lls for 8 hours? I think not. Ducatis, very expensive for endurance and their durability is in question also.
Looks like it would be a Suzuki series with SV1000's filling in the big class. I'm sure an ocasional Honda will come in but the majority to me seems like it would be Suzi's.
First, hello to my old friend, Gordie. Been a long time.
The US Endurance Championship actually started the first year we founded CCS, 1984. It ran on it's own as well as with certain AMA Nationals up until I took over operation of the AMA Pro road races. Then it was incorporated into those events as the Team Challenge. The AMA cancelled the program the year after our dispute started and I stepped down from the Pro program.
My affection for this type of racing has led me to join with several others in the creation of MOTO-ST. Hopefully, this program will provide fun and income for riders and teams.
It is anticipated that the first event will have a prize package approaching $100,000.00.
Welcome Roger,
Are there any more details you can give us on the series?
Actual class structure
Where the events will be run (ie. a 'true' National series)
Who they will be run with (ASRA, CCS, AMA etc)
Basically there are a lot of us twins racers that are very interested in doing the series but as you well know organising a Team to be able to make it through the entire Endurance series takes a lot more than a Sprint race.
Do you think you will have trouble going head to head with the WERA National Endurance series? I only ask this as I am not sure there is room for two series to compete against each other.
The last thing we need is another series that will devide the sport even more than it is...
I know you probably cant give out too much info but anything you can give us will help.
Thanks in advance
Good questions Clarkie. This new series has definitely peaked my interest. With some more info, we can start putting a plan together.
Let me try to answer some of your questions. Keep in mind that the rules are being formulated and the events are being offered to promoters.
The only event in 2006 will be the 8-hour at Daytona in October, as part of the CCS Race of Champions. In 2007 there will be up to six races, with the opening round and finale both at Daytona. Only the Daytona finale will be 8-hours. The rest of the seasonal events will be shorter, typically between 3-hours and 6-hours.
We hope to add the four events at credible facilities all across the country. I want an event in the West, Mid-West, and North-East. Time will tell how successful I am in selling these races. We expect to announce the '07 schedule in the next 90 to 120 days.
The races will be AMA sanctioned but will be organized by Colin Fraser, organizer of the Canadian Superbike Championship. Therefore, AMA memberships will be required, as will a modestly priced MOTO-ST membership.
Current plans call for a minimum purse in the $25,000.00 range with a projected $100,000.00 for the finale.
There will be two classes of bikes, Grand Sport Twins and Sport Twins. Every approved motorcycle will have it's own specifications, but typically a GST will be about 95 horsepower and weight around 375 lbs, while ST machines will be rated at about 75 horsepower. Other experts will set the weights.
Tires will all be Pirellis and fuel will be Sunoco 260 GTX. More info on their pricing and contingency awards will follow.
There is no intent to divide anything. An all-twins endurance series does not duplicate anything currently in place. It does, however, give us the ability to run the classic course at Daytona and reduces the likelihood of other facilities becoming obsolete in the near future.
We are happy to run with any other credible group that feels that we can be compatible.
Hope that helps......
Roger, is there a website to go to for addition info and future updates?
thanks!
Thanks Roger! Good question Alexa. Looks like I'll have to get a twin ready for October...
QuoteThanks Roger! Good question Alexa. Looks like I'll have to get a twin ready for October...
Vrrrum vrrrum vroooom!
No website yet and I don't want us to be high-jacking the CCS forum either. We are working on the web site and all the other things necessary to create a new championship. I'll continue to monitor this site, as my friend Kevin is a good host, but asap I'll let you know where to find dedicated MOTO-ST news.
pm sent
QuoteThere will be two classes of bikes, Grand Sport Twins and Sport Twins. Every approved motorcycle will have it's own specifications, but typically a GST will be about 95 horsepower and weight around 375 lbs, while ST machines will be rated at about 75 horsepower. Other experts will set the weights.
thanks for sharing the info Roger, what bikes are you targeting with the two classes mentioned, obviously a open twins bike wont be elligible (aka 999, RC51, SV1000, RSV) so i am guessing the ST class would be the SV650/Ninja 650 class.
Would the other class be a Buel class?
Thanks again for any info you are sharing 8)
QuoteMy affection for this type of racing has led me to join with several others in the creation of MOTO-ST. Hopefully, this program will provide fun and income for riders and teams.
It is anticipated that the first event will have a prize package approaching $100,000.00.
Roger, welcome to the board!
I figured you'd have some stuff up your sleeve on all this.
All in all, I'm interested.
I think the twins thing keeps the field interesting by reducing the ability for strange, unobtainable parts that are available to some for production four cylinders making their way into machines.
Dyno is good.
Quotethanks for sharing the info Roger, what bikes are you targeting with the two classes mentioned, obviously a open twins bike wont be elligible (aka 999, RC51, SV1000, RSV) so i am guessing the ST class would be the SV650/Ninja 650 class.
Would the other class be a Buel class?
Thanks again for any info you are sharing 8)
Agreed.
Roger, it's been a long time.
Great to hear of the MOTO-ST Series.
Good luck in ALL coming attractions.
Roger, I always knew you liked bikes more than cars.
Welcome back to the two wheeled world. It sounds like an interesting series and I wish you all good luck with it.
I'll do them with you if you go. This would be fun! Now we just need to build a 200 hp Ducati 999 to take advantage of our riding style: Park it in the corners and accelerate like mad!!!
QuoteThanks Roger! Good question Alexa. Looks like I'll have to get a twin ready for October...
QuoteNow we just need to build a 200 hp Ducati 999 to take advantage of our riding style: Park it in the corners and accelerate like mad!!!
Paging Dan. Paging Cornercamping Dan :-X ;D ;D
QuotePaging Dan. Paging Cornercamping Dan :-X ;D ;D
Oh, dude...puhleeeeze! (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clicksmilies.com%2Fs0105%2Faktion%2Faction-smiley-047.gif&hash=040608fbf36f14a606d1a4b769a9c5e65b19ca86)
I would love to see someone turn up to the post race tech and run double the HP class limits on the dyno :)
the only thing i can say about the classes is that they have a lightweight twins class, a middleweight twins class, why not make a heavyweight twins class with a 130hp limit?
That way the SV1000, RC51, 999 (not 'R') and Aprilia will have somewhere to play as well. It's not like adding another class will take up too much track space as i think the grids may be quite light for some of the rounds...
QuoteOh, dude...puhleeeeze! (https://www.ccsforum.com/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.clicksmilies.com%2Fs0105%2Faktion%2Faction-smiley-047.gif&hash=040608fbf36f14a606d1a4b769a9c5e65b19ca86)
Well it worked at Gingerman ::) ;D
Quote. It does, however, give us the ability to run the classic course at Daytona and reduces the likelihood of other facilities becoming obsolete in the near future.
Classic Course at Daytona?? Does this mean the west horseshoe, the dog leg AND the orginal chicane?? Now that sounds like FUN!!
If anyone see's more info on this series... please post.
It's a shame you have to run spec tires. We were all looking forward here to running the race in october.I think having a spec tire severly limits your options.
Jim
entry for the 8 hour race at Daytona in OCT is $1000 +++ ($125 per hour plus registration ...ect ect )
www.moto-st.com I think the idea is great with HP limited spec classes but the fees are a bit stiff....
Yeah, but check out the purse...
http://www.moto-st.com/CONTENT/Docs/MOTO-STEight-HourPurse.pdf (http://www.moto-st.com/CONTENT/Docs/MOTO-STEight-HourPurse.pdf)
As for spec tires, that's one of the reasons I recently switched from Dunlop to Pirelli. Game on.
Just looked up the website. www.moto-st.com
Was wondering what bikes were slotted in which categories.
http://www.moto-st.com/CONTENT/Docs/MOTO-STEligibleMachineList.pdf
Anybody know why they wouldn't let an SV run in teh GrandSport GST class, 75 min to 90 max HP, seems right in the SV line of power with basic work.
The SVs are only shown in the Sport Twins which is 75 HP or less. So stock or nothing.
Just wondering as I am sure I am missing something in it all.
Still seems like a lot of fun and would be good to see them reach out to some other tracks.
Hey, I can go just as slow on pirelli's as I can any other tire.
6 weeks to build a bike in time to test and get set-up.
Love the rules or lack there of.
Before I start building and contracting riders, I want to know if these rules are final.
Spec series or not it's going to be interesting to see how many twins last 8 hours at Daytona. -Snack
Yes, some bikes would need to be detuned to make the HP limits. No biggie.
As far as twins reliability goes, I recall the SoCal Buell dealer team finishing the 24-hours of Willow Springs in 1999 with no problems. I've personally raced in CRA 5-hour (at Brainerd) and WERA 6-hour races aboard twins with no issues. My Buell team won the GT Lights Team Challenge national championship in 2003 and we won 3 out of 3 GT Lights Team Challenge events we entered this year. No mechanical issues whatsoever. Go figure.
Thank you all for your interest and comments. The rules as posted on www.moto-st.com are pretty well complete. We are treating the inaugural event as a free standing race and will start the championship in '07. Therefore all Grand Am memberships and published rules will be good for the first race as well as the '07 season. Some of the rules for '07 will be waived for the first race however, such as the spec fuel dump cans we will have in place by next year.
I want to recognize Kevin Elliott and the folks at CCS for their cooperation in hosting this inaugural race. They have been super and we look forward to many years of cooperative efforts.
If you have questions or wish to be on our mailing list for entries, etc., go to www.moto-st.com and give us your contact info.
Well one good thing out of this discussion. I now know there's a new track being built in central Iowa :lmao:
Is there an extra prize for the team who enters a V-Rod? It's on the eligeble list. How about a Victory?
Quote from: fourandsix on March 21, 2006, 03:14:43 PM
It's a shame you have to run spec tires. We were all looking forward here to running the race in october.I think having a spec tire severly limits your options.
Jim
Yup, +1 on that...
V-rod and sporty are both on the list but not victory, I can't wait to see this crazy mix of bikes. Superhawk is on it but not the RC-51
Glad I kept the ol trusty Super Hawk, made my rib cage feel better reading that it was on the eligable list.
I'm preparing it for the Daytona event, and hope to have everything together by race day/night, just hope to qualify well.
No more worries about those high dollar Ducati's and those pesky RC 51's.
anyone notice you have to be a minimum expert rider to compete? no amateurs/novices.
Yea, that really sucks... :kicknuts: When I saw the sechdule for 07' I though about trying to run the I-O-W-A race with a couple of guys, but then I saw that whole expert only B.S. They should at least allow novices on the ST class bikes.
Sounds like a great series. Big money like that always brings out fast riders. Wondering where the money is coming from for such a large purse. We are putting our team together now. Will we need lights for the Daytona race since it ends at 9:00 pm.
You'd expect the spec tire/gas sponsors to be putting up the cash, in addition to your investment in your entry.
Quote from: weggieman on August 09, 2006, 10:15:51 PM
anyone notice you have to be a minimum expert rider to compete? no amateurs/novices.
Thanks for the heads up Gordie, maybe a shot next year then... :boink:
What's all the stink about spec tires and fuel? Doesn't anybody have access to a tire changer or a dyno?! :lmao:
Quote from: Jason748 on August 09, 2006, 10:38:00 PM
Yea, that really sucks... :kicknuts: When I saw the sechdule for 07' I though about trying to run the I-O-W-A race with a couple of guys, but then I saw that whole expert only B.S. They should at least allow novices on the ST class bikes.
Have you ever raced endurance? Let alone at night.
Either step up, and become an expert or get some more track time.
some of my best riding was done on the way home from some bar at night................. :wtf:
I just wonder if its going to be a true night race and if night time equipment will be needed since Daytona has enough lights to light half the state of Florida. There really is no need for on bike lights at Daytona, unless they are going to leave us in the dark
Quote from: sv814 on August 17, 2006, 12:18:38 AM
There really is no need for on bike lights at Daytona, unless they are going to leave us in the dark
Keep it simple. The rules require it and it's going to have a TV package, right? It will look cool, and that is important for TV.
Quote from: weggieman on August 15, 2006, 09:20:04 PM
some of my best riding was done on the way home from some bar at night................. :wtf:
You're not supposed to admit to that
Sure, the rules also require a 12x10 number plate on the front, which they are changing due to the headlight. They are still ammending things, so evidentally its not all set in stone. I just dont want to cut out the tail section for a stock light, or buy a skinz street solo tail if its not going to be needed, thats all.
I've talked with Roger and Colin. First race is going to be run what you brung, but you need to be close to the rules.
I think you'll be able to get away with a glow stick on the tail.
It's going to be expensive next year. They are talking about all teams having to buy a spec dump can.
Also remember they want you to use radios, not pit boards.
I got ya, thanks Gary. Are you guys doing it on the Kawi? We might be doing it on the SV1000.
I have no idea what you're talking about. Nor why I just recieved an e-mail from PIAA and Kawasaki of Canada :thumb:
Under minimum eligibility requirements:
2-11.1.e Be licensed as an Expert or Pro with 1. FIM; 2. AMA Pro; 3. CCS Pro; 4. WERA Pro; 5. ASM Pro; 6. CMRA Expert; 7. RACE Pro; 8. CMA Expert; 9. AMCRA Expert; 10. WMRRA Expert; 11. OMRRA Expert.
So who is a "CCS PRO"?
CCS's ASRA licensed riders...former FUSA. it is an upgrade from standard CCS expert. My assumption.
Who is a WERA Pro?
Quote from: BlueRidgePerformance on August 15, 2006, 07:37:28 PM
Have you ever raced endurance? Let alone at night.
Either step up, and become an expert or get some more track time.
Yes, and Yes. But it was on knobbies, dodging trees & at much lower speeds. But yes I know it's totally different ball game.
Plan on doing both in the future.
no, I think "pro" must simply mean experts.
Where in Central Iowa? Anyone know? Can't find any mention on the site per a town in Iowa...
It's in Newton, IA, next to the airport, which is about an half-hour or so east of Des Moines on I-80. The track is owned by ex-NASCRAP driver Rusty Wallace and looks to be a very nicely built and well equipped track.
here is web site: http://www.iowaspeedway.com/ (http://www.iowaspeedway.com/)
Cool, thanks Jason...
It look slike Brian Parriot and I will be running the BMW in Moto ST this fall with one of our ringer Boxer Cup riders from Europe. Only thing that ay nip us is gearing and rear wheel changes... (5 axle bolts)
N8! Kern
Isn't it like the older BMWs? Just use an impact gun to spin the bolts out and back in, I should think you could pull of a wheel change faster than the guys that have to pull an actual axle out, no chain or brake to deal with.
Gearing on the other hand could get rather expensive.
The wheel has to line up just rigt with the holes, rather quickly, easier sounding than it is. The Duc's that are legal are single sbk axle nuts...
n8!
Quote from: N8Kern on September 02, 2006, 09:22:40 AM
It look slike Brian Parriot and I will be running the BMW in Moto ST this fall with one of our ringer Boxer Cup riders from Europe. Only thing that ay nip us is gearing and rear wheel changes... (5 axle bolts)
N8! Kern
Oh, sweet, Nate! Brian's a good guy and fast. Ok, I know who to put my money on.
Tapered dowel pins on the hub and indexing holes on the wheel?
::)
I wonder if they will change the rules to allow amateurs to race in the inaugural event at Daytona? How many AM's are interested? I will try to send email listed on the contact page to see what they say.