Expense Agreements with Buddies?

[FLNewb]

I'm curious if any of you amateur road-racers/track-day riders have agreements for expenses with your crew.  If so, I'm curious if you have advice or any words of caution about going into this hobby with friends.

Here's a little more information abut my question:
- I'm an new rider (only been riding for a few months... and not very frequently at that)
- I have a good friend and co-worker who is into riding, motorsport, etc.
- We're both interested in getting a spare bike to do track days, etc. to develop a hobby doing something we enjoy.
- As of now, I'm going to be the one buying the bike.
- He's the one with the truck, trailer, and garage space.
- If and when we get a bike, he'll be the rider since I'm stilll new.  I'm cool with this arrangement since I need a hobby anyway and I plan to develop some wrenching knowledge while I learn to ride.
- Once we start going to track days, there will be all of the expenses related to maintaining the bike and making it to events.  

Like I said, this is a good friend and coworker, so I want to have an agreement about who will pay for what so neither of us feels slighted.

So let me know if any of you have similar arrangements or sugestions and what has worked for you and what hasn't.

Thanks

[smoke]

Man ... if you value your friendship and co- worker then backway from this thing fast.  I say this because:

At some point in time you or the other person are going to feell like they are doing more or paying more than the other. Feelings will get hurt

[Decreasing_Dave]

Man ... if you value your friendship and co- worker then backway from this thing fast.  I say this because:

At some point in time you or the other person are going to feell like they are doing more or paying more than the other. Feelings will get hurt

I couldn't agree more.

Even traveling with a buddy to the races has gotten me in a bind with friends.  If you do anything, it needs to be spelled out verbatim.  The problem is, with racing, you could not cover ALL of the possiblities that could come up.  So there is always something that will leave one of you wishing things were different.

Go it alone, you'll be broke, but much happier......

Dave

[MELK-MAN]

owning things with more that 1 person, as mentioned above, is a disaster waiting to happen. 1 person should own the trailer, truck or bike.
If you dont have your own bike.. dont ride. On travel, whomever drives, the other person pays all gas-no exception. The wear/tear/insurance/risk of damage should be offset by the passanger. For about 1 full season, i owned the trailer and big generator. Big expense.. detailing a large trailer can cost $250-300. Storage, tires, scratches.. My buddy paid me $1,000 toward the trailer and generator but ALL expenses were mine on these items, and the items were mine..
Now, new truck, big trailer, other riders pay all gas..Hoping they might pitch in a few bones for some of my $14,000 trailer..

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

     I have to agree also that it's not a good idea. Have you ever heard about not getting an apartment with your best buddy because soon enough you'll will be wishing you hadn't ever done it? I think it's just a problem waiting to happen.

     Expenses vary amongst people I have spoken with, I generally split all hotel and fuel costs equally, though Greg has a good point about the driver ultimately paying alot more than the passengers in that situation. I have had more than my fair share of crazy travel issues to either my truck or trailer that have resulted in delayed arrival to the destination (whether it be on the way there or back). This has almost always been unforseeable situations that I couldn't have avoided had I personally done something different. This puts everyone in the vehicle in the same situation and it's all because of the owners equipment. A great example of this was towing to Daytona for the ROC in the fall of '03 while transporting 2 other peoples equipment along with my own. I lost a wheel off my trailer which resulted in a substantial delay mid trip trying to find replacement wheel studs for the trailer, had I not been able to arrive in time for the event the 1 guy wouldn't have won races at the ROC that year.

     Another issue can be switching drivers, I have done this several times successfully, but the potential for a disaster is increased with an unfamiliar driver to that combination of truck and trailer. If something does happen then freindships can be strained and money issues can get ugly for replacement/repair of uninsured equipment. It's all fine and dandy when there isn't a problem, but problems can cause otherwise great relationships to get ugly. I have been lucky so far and haven't had this happen to me personally, but the potential is definately there.

     Also be prepared to 'go it alone' occasionally or not go at all. I have had many times, in not only racing but other activities like downhill skiing, that people who said they would go then did not. I personally learned to always look at traveling as though I will be going alone, then if I have others along that's great! :)

[cbr806]

I agree with the others, but since I bet you'll do it anyway, I'll just say I think you should ride the first year too.  There are plenty of races to run & I doubt your buddy can run them all ($$$$).  Start in the back & ride; it's the only way to learn.

[GSXR RACER MIKE]

I agree with the others, but since I bet you'll do it anyway, I'll just say I think you should ride the first year too.  There are plenty of races to run & I doubt your buddy can run them all ($$$$).  Start in the back & ride; it's the only way to learn.

     I was thinking that very thing too, why aren't you racing as well? If you have motorcycling experience just go for it and skip the track days, I did that myself. The 1 suggestion I would have though is to take a reputable school to help your advancement from the start, and I'm not talking about the licensing school either. Getting guidance from knowledgable instructors from the start will help to guide you in the right direction before you develop bad habits doing uninstructed track days. :)

[stephenr928]

FLNewb,
Good advice from the forum so far.  I'd like to add to the pot....
Racing is horribly, painfully expensive.  Get into this hobby first and figure out your limits before teamimg up with somebody.  Once you've figured out your expectations, capabilities & budget, you'll be in a better position to team up with someone who shares your outlook & approach.
Let me add that sharing a bike is potentially bad.  (Ahem....Potentially awful!)  Who will pay for damage when it is crashed?  Or destroyed?

Once you have your own bike (at a minimum), you can potentially 'rent' transportation & work space from a buddy......But I still recommend doing as much as you can by yourself until you have a good sense of everything involved.

That said, here's what I've done:
-2003, got bike.  Transportation = Used open trailer behind my station wagon.  (Very Ghetto.)  Stayed in hotels, but by midseason I'd met enough racers that I usually split hotel rooms.  Did everything by myself, and figured out a lot of stuff....Mostly the hard way.
-2004, got RV.  Transportation = Bike & tools goes in RV, & I towed 'partners' enclosed trailer with all his stuff.  (Not so Ghetto.)  We split all gas costs down the middle.....Heck, I'd be going anyway and towing his trailer made little difference to mpg, and he usually bought tasty road snacks!  I also trusted him to drive the rig, as he was very capable.  Life was fine, this was a good arrangement for me.

Your gas mileage may vary.
Good luck!    

[Mark Bernard]

I agree... Do it on your own. You will have ALOT less headache!

[FLNewb]

Thanks for your advice and experiences everyone.

I realize the potential for strain on our friendship and that's why I'm trying to understand the factors involved and am discussing the situation with him before we start doing this.

- I am prepared to buy the bike.  This is a hobby kind of thing for me too, and unless the bike gets destroyed, I can get some money back out of it.  Or start riding it myself.  So no problem there.

- For now, this is a casual hobby.  I don't think we're planning to join a race series, so if we miss events, it's not a big deal either.  

- Of course we would split gas too.  We've done road trips before and we work out the "gas for the truck" issue.

- Once I thought about it, I recognized that it's the maintenance/broken parts on both the bike and the truck/trailer that we need to work out to prevent potential ugliness.  


And I would love to get some track time, but I'm still getting used to working the controls on a bike.  I'm a new RIDER, let alone racer.

[251am]

 Not too long ago an enduro racer used to show up at the races with his XR600 taken apart and stuffed into the trunk of his Oldsmobile, pull it out and put it together, race, tear it down and stuff it into the trunk again. Don't worry about ghetto, just get to the track. :)  

[xseal]

re: the Bike.  Buy a good used race bike from a reputable racer/shop.  Don't want to build a bike from scratch to find out the sport isn't for you. This will manage capital outlay downside. Race bikes depreciate greatly, that why you can find a terrific 2-yr old race bike for a reasonable cost.

RE: being new.  If you are the "newer" rider, invest in a good 2-day school and get a bunch of track days in. You will quickly figure out if you have the hunger to race. If you do, go for the first time at a track you know, and enter 3-4 races. Again, you will either be hooked, or sure that it isn't for you. No way to know which it is until you try. I have lots of great friends that are serious bikers, but refuse to race. More likely that not, they are the normal ones and the people on this board are not.  That's why racers bond with each other, its like attending an AA mtg and find out there are lots of people with the same problem you have.  

Re: this being a "casual" sport.  You'll figure out pretty quickly whether you are "hooked," or not. If you are hooked, beware, it is a real drug and you will have trouble keeping it casual.  I have a friend with a $40k SV650 superbike. Think about it.

Find a reputable shop/friend that has been racing for a couple years. A little experience will save you a ton of money (ie, dissuade you from spending money on the engine).  
 
re: Costs, don't share costs unless its a matter of both of you guys having your own bikes and actually doing a road trip.  What all these guys above are saying (hard to believe until you see it w/ your own eyes) is that a racing weekend is about $1000, no matter how you cut it (double that for Daytona).  Tires, oil, gas, travel, entries, etc.  Now, break that down into cost per lap ... you don't even want to go there. Its expensive, pay cash and figure out if you can afford it. Track days are cheaper ways to get track time ... but not race time.  So, if you do half the races in your region, that's $6k, not including bike, gear, crashes, time away from work, etc.

Its a great, great sport. Keep it simple to start while you learn. You'll have more fun.