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Why AMA road racing will never be big time...

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WebCrush

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2005, 09:50:24 am »
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Frames:

My guess is that the team wanted some frames, not entire bikes. The paper work is probably already in place matching frame numbers to engine numbers. So they probably plucked some frames off the assembly line prior to the frame being stamped. There is much red tape when it comes to serial numbers ( I was the production manager a Buell - when it was still an independent company).



This is true of Honda and I guess Buell, but blank frames are just another part you can order from the dealer when dealing with Suzuki, Yamaha, or kawasaki.  No paperwork or red tape.  I've bought em myself online with no issue
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Super Dave

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #25 on: March 17, 2005, 09:58:36 am »
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Bike racing has never been, and will never be as close competition wise as cars, because the rider can make a HUGE difference in the performance of the bike.


Yes, but very good riders can battle very good riders.

Two good examples:  the MZ Skorpion Cup Series and the BMW Boxer Cup Series.

Doesn't anyone remember the BMW battle at Daytona?

Frames...yeah, they are available.  But who would have the gaul and idiocy to buck the rules and NOT have a frame VIN...




My response...


Similar to the response I had at Brainerd in like 1991 when Russell showed up at Brainerd for the 750 Supersport event with a completely dark shield when it was completely over cast...and he missed the warm up lap...




Is this the first time you raced?




Anyone think that Yosh didn't know that they were supposed to be racing production frames with VIN's?

Do we think that they didn't read this year's rule book?
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Super Dave

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grasshopper

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #26 on: March 17, 2005, 10:12:03 am »
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Yes, but very good riders can battle very good riders.

Two good examples:  the MZ Skorpion Cup Series and the BMW Boxer Cup Series. quote]


When I was at Daytona Last year (2004) the BMW boxer cup was the best race of the day. I enjoyed that race way better than watching the Superbikes.

I would like to see that close competition in AMA superbike! Hey, you gotta let a guy dream rite?!  ;)

It would be cool to give all the top guys actual off the show room floor machines, let them change tires and adjust suspension and let all the same guys run the same class "ACTUAL PRODUCTION BIKES"
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StumpysWife

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #27 on: March 17, 2005, 10:13:54 am »
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It would be cool to give all the top guys actual off the show room floor machines, let them change tires and adjust suspension and let all the same guys run the same class "ACTUAL PRODUCTION BIKES"


In other words, we could sign the factories up for the Suzuki Cup!  What would Mladin b!#@h about then?
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grasshopper

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2005, 10:17:51 am »
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In other words, we could sign the factories up for the Suzuki Cup!  What would Mladin b!#@h about then?



I say we give all the guys on the Superbike grid. EVERY GUY, even all the privateer little guys like me STOCK 600's or 1000's and see who wins!

I'd LOVE to see a privateer guy beat the big factory guys in that race!  :D
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Super Dave

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #29 on: March 17, 2005, 10:21:12 am »
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In other words, we could sign the factories up for the Suzuki Cup!  What would Mladin b!#@h about then?


You think that all the bikes in the Suzuki Cup final are equal?  

World Cup, yeah...

I'm not advocating a stock bike class.

NASCAR doesn't do that.

But something should be reasonable.
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Super Dave

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WebCrush

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2005, 10:37:57 am »
I'm some of the privateers would do very well against factory boys on equal machinery.

But lets not forget--those guys on the factory bikes got the job for a reason, and usually more often than not, it was cuz they could really ride the wheels off a bike
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Super Dave

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #31 on: March 17, 2005, 11:02:36 am »
I doubt that, for the most part, that having everyone on equal machines would change the result completely.  

BUT....

It would be at least interesting to watch.

And this is about entertainment, isn't it...

Michael Jordan helped his program by going out and getting a couple of very good riders.

Certainly his results are better.

Did his team abide by the rules?

Is it fair that the rider in second had a motorcycle that didn't reasonably abide by the rules?

Hey, we've got MotoGP for prototype frames...take it there.  This is production based racing.  

What's the AMA points structure?

If Jason got bilked out of second place points and looses the championship because of the points that he rightfully should have received...

If Yates wins the championship by anything less than the points that he received for second place in the Daytona Superstock race...

These are scenarios that should not happen.

We do in many ways assume that the front runner for the championship will be Yates, because he's on the "factory" bike.  

Great.  Makes for almost a predetermined outcome...boring.

Superstock racing with GSXR750's a few years ago was very, very good competition.

Yeah, there wasn't the mix of manufacturers, but you had good racing in the last year.  Anyone deny that?
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Steviebee

Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #32 on: March 17, 2005, 11:42:51 am »
Daves the man !!.  My two bits.

NASCAR was run by ONE man with a dream !

And after many years he retired and let his son run things.

Now theres a new guy,   ONE GUY.  that runs the show.

AMA racing is run by a committee. (A committee by the way that has an direct involvement with racing ie. dunlop, honda,  (at least the donlop guy is gone now)  talk about conflict of interest !)  

They will never get anywhere.  Its gonna be 5 guys.  It should be embarrising that a factory racer is racing in that series.  Come on, Hackin, Disalvo, Hayden's and the other "factory" guys running superstock.  
« Last Edit: March 17, 2005, 11:43:44 am by Steviebee »
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Super Dave

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #33 on: March 17, 2005, 12:01:41 pm »
Well, they are paid to race.  So, if the contract says to race Superstock...

Well, it's good to have a contract to be paid to race.  

It's about bragging rights for the manufacturers, not about the furthering of motorcycle racing.

The program is built for the makers of the bikes, not the sponsors (or lacking sponsors) of potential teams.

Mark Martin?  Valvoline, Viagra...

Kennseth?  Dewalt

Honestly, the manufacturers got it figured out not to one up each other so much in the 600cc wars.  Each new bike is better, just a little bit, with bold new graphics, to differentiate it from the previous edition.  It's created a mentality of two year old bikes being "outdated".  



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Super Dave

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tzracer

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2005, 01:48:37 pm »
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This is true of Honda and I guess Buell, but blank frames are just another part you can order from the dealer when dealing with Suzuki, Yamaha, or kawasaki. ÊNo paperwork or red tape. ÊI've bought em myself online with no issue


I was trying to explain why the frames have no VIN. It would be difficult to pull just a frame off the line with it having a VIN. A frame with no VIN is no big deal, a frame with a VIN is.
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Brian McLaughlin
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tzracer

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Re: Why AMA road racing will never be big time...
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2005, 01:51:50 pm »
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Doesn't anyone remember the BMW battle at Daytona?



But that was (old) Daytona. The 600 races used to be drafting battles also. But it was not the same at other tracks.

The change to Daytona allows a rider to get away.
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Brian McLaughlin
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