how come lrrs is the only place with a junior clas

[bmfgsxr]

it would be nice for the entire organization to have a junior class. lrrs has junior. and myself and alot of other people would like to bump up to there, but that means we have to race expert on all other tracks. this past season was my first season racing, and i stayed at loudon for the entire season. for 2003 i have a handful of tracks planned out, but to go to a track ive never been on and race expert after my first year would be a bit much. i did quite well at loudon, and im running some good times, but i dont think racing expert at other tracks is the answer. but at the same time i dont want to race ameture at loudon either.  a junior class for the entire organization would be a good idea in my opinion. it would give people like me more motivation to move up rather than stay in ameture.

thanks, bmf

[the_weggie_man]

And you think you have problems posting results now? Please, just where would a juniors class fit in the weekend schedule? There is too much on the schedule now.

If you're not ready to ride expert, stay amateur. We don't need a junior class. If you're a fast amateur you will learn racing against experts.

[bmfgsxr]

the way it works at loudon is the juniors run at the same time as an expert race but in a second wave. and they are scored seperately. so it really is a good idea. you dont take up any more time or space by having a junior class and it allows an intermediate place for guys to step up.

[Super Dave]

CCS is the parent organization.  LRRS is an affiliate owned by a separate entity.  So, you'd be asking the parent to change its system.  Go to a WERA race, you'll still have the same problem you're complaining about.  AFM, WMRRA, MRA, OMRRA, and the like are all the same with an amateur and expert program.  Loudon is unique in that you have 1000+ entries a weekend on a tiny surface.  Go to a WERA race where they have 400 entries.  Even 750 at Blackhawk.

I don't think amateur's get bumped early enough.  But if they do have a junior class, how will that help you?  You'll still be racing against guys that know the track.  Will you want to be classified as an amateur then?

Here's an anology for what you're proposing.

Nicky Haden puts his pants on just like the rest of us.  Nicky is going to ride on race tracks that he's never even seen.  So, should Nicky be allowed to race his MotoGP bike in the marginally slower 250 class because he doesn't know the tracks?  Should there be a "secondary" classification for him, and others, that don't know the track.

If LRRS made you a junior, you understand how to be safe on a race track.  Being an expert does not make you fast.  Being an amateur doesn't make you slow either.

I'd talk to Kevin Elliott if I were you, but I don't think you'll get far with it.

You need to come up with a reason for it.  Just because you find racing as an expert at a new track "a bit much", isn't going to cut it.

[davegsxrold929r]

what about letting a person that races Junior at loudon race amature at other trakcs instead of expert ??  i know once you are in the computer you are stuck !! but thet would make it comparable ?!!?

[the_weggie_man]

Isn't practice for learning the track? Your bike should be set up except for minor changes for each track. That is practice, adjustments and learning the track.

Everybody has to learn new tracks eventually. Should experts get to race amateur when they're at a new track?

Your reasoning is limp, sorry.  ;D

[bmfgsxr]

why is the reasoning limp? ive only been racing for one year.  its not just a matter of learning new tracks.

[Super Dave]

But everyone has to learn sometime.  

When I went to race AMA Pro, I had nothing that distinguished me at a track that I never saw from someone who races there every week.  Should there?

Racing is about over coming things.  About what people do, not what they can't, haven't, or won't.  Adapt overcome.

When I, and Weggie Man before me, started racing, there were no track days.  There were fewer races.  Either you raced, or you didn't.

I might be putting this rather harshly, but if there is a problem racing, maybe a good track day program is more appropriate.

I've heard guys tell me how fast they are, but they don't have the money, or if they had the sponsorship.  Well, I heard it put once, "Racers race."  Still don't have a sponsor, I surely don't have any money.  But I race...

Don't get worried about the unknown of racing.  Show up, work, do your best.  What can anyone else ask or expect of you?  

[bmfgsxr]

actually the way you word it you sound like a d-i-c-k. i spend my money, i put in my time. and i had the fastest time up at loudon this season in the ametures. so i did pretty well, and i have a stack of trophies from what ive done. i did this on a clapped out 95 f3. and i was the only guy in the top ten that was an out dated bike. that said a trackday program isnt what i need. sure i could run expert, but a junior class would be a good stepping stone up to expert. its quite nice collecting contingency money and whatnot from finishing in the top three consistantly. it helps with the costs of racing which is a very expensive sport. do i plan on going expert... of course i do. so you dont have to come off like an a-s-s-h-o-l-e to try and make a point.  ;D

[Super Dave]

Dude, your spelling still doesn't impress anyone.  Tell me how you really think.

So, you rode an older bike in an amateur class.  I've ridden much older bikes (twenty and thirty years old) in current classes.  I don't expect an award.  I race just as hard regardless.

You're asking CCS and LRRS to change something that they have done for years.  Not to mention that they have found that to be a system that works.

It doesn't work for you, so we have to listen to public forum complaints?  What gives?  That makes me a dick, eh?  You have issues with CCS and LRRS.  Make a case.  If it makes any sense, someone, even I, would support this.  I'm still waiting for several guys to make ANY case.  You're just adding to the whinning.  That's about it.  And you're adding to an existing thread.

In 1993 we were running two to three seconds off the pace that we have now at our local track.  Those were F2's, prior to the F3's we could only dream about.  Loudon would have similar results as our local track in lap times because of its size.

You do quite well at Loudon.  Congratulations.  Years ago, there was no contingency for amateurs, so you should feel lucky that you have the benefit that guys didn't have when the F3's were new.  You show that you have some skill.  That means that you are NOT an amateur.  Move on.

What's an expert?  Someone that shows skill in a field.  Looks like you're shown what you are with your riding.  Sorry that it doesn't pay further down.  Yes, this is expensive.  You don't have to tell me.  Talk to the Wood family your way.  Ask them how much money they loose when they put on a school.  About the time and money they have spend in their decades of racing.

Racing again is about over coming things.

Stepping stones... that's about entitlement.  There's a set classification for everything.  Loudon is unique in the system to have a Jr set up.  

I discussed this many years ago with CCS.  I was curious.  I made my case.  I received the rebuttle.  It made sense to me.  The ball's in your court.  We'll help if you do something with it.

Get it?
 ;)

[bmfgsxr]

 youve turned this into something that it wasnt meant to be dave. it was simply a question as to why not. it wasnt whining, or bitching, but even if it was this is a bbs. people do whatever they want all day on these things.  i thought it would be a good idea to have a junior class. big deal. you dont like that idea because you think the only point of racing is to over come things. sure thats a part of it but it means different things to different people, and people have different motivations for racing. mine might be completely different then yours does that make either of us right? no. but who cares. its about fun. and the reason i said you were being a d-i-c-k was because you were. youve turned this into something its not, or wasnt meant to be. i wasnt bitching. just wondering. this thread is so damn old now anyway. and just to make you happy im going expert anyway. ;D

seriously now. im not trying to make this an annoying arguement. i had a simple point. you dont like the idea. thats fine. have a nice day.

[Super Dave]

Bulletin Board.  That's what it is.

You're posting this under Rules and Regs, so you'd like something done.  Or at least you did.  Congratulations on going expert.

The attention you got was from me, I've been doing this a while, and a former racer and race director that is still quite involved in all this mess.  Sorry you got your feathers ruffled.

[bmfgsxr]

it would be nice to see it done. but its not the end of the world. its not something that would keep me from racing or bumping up. just a thought is what it was. my feathers didnt get ruffed since its mid winter and i shed my feathers already. 8)

[chris_chops]

Guys, Guys, Guys, Guys,
    You are both right.  Chill out and try racing a 750ss ducati against Ed Key.  See you at the ice race dave, your on!  Call Monte ASAP.  
Matt

[Super Dave]

What day, what day?

I'm gonna take Ed on my H1!

And of course we're right.  We race.  We're addicted.

[chris_chops]

Jan.19th at Koshkonong

[EX#996]

Jan.19th at Koshkonong

You better hope that we have colder weather than we have had.  There's not too much ice out there yet and if there is any current running through the lake....   :o

Dawn   ;)

[the_weggie_man]

Ice? What's that?  Last word was there is no ice on Koshkonong near bay we race in. Today 40 tomorrow 50 degrees !!!! But then it's supposed to cool off.  How much, we don't know but it has to get very cold for the next three weeks to pull this race off.

Remember we need to park a lot of vehicles on the ice, not just ride bikes around. Also, if you were there two years ago you will remember the 10" deep ruts in some corners !!!! Not good if you have 6-8" of ice.   :-/

We are making calls regularly to the bar owner at Sunset Marina to check ice conditions and will keep everyone  informed on this site.

[Super Dave]

Ok, I'm out.  19th is bad.  Our first Pinewood Derby.  I've got to "look" at the rules.  That's just a "No Miss" day.

[the_weggie_man]

Depending on weather we may move the race or postpone it.  We will give a one week notice if there is a change unless there is a real deep cold spell predicted the week before the 19th.

Koshkonong is a very shallow lake and builds ice very fast.

[bmfgsxr]

its official. white plates next year. just thought id let ya know. ;D

[sdiver68]

Good luck at the new tracks.  :-/

[Super Dave]

You'll have fun.  Kick Scott Greenwood in the groin for me....(He's a nice guy.  Lost his finger, smashed his hand this year.  Was a funny story...OUCH!)

[bmfgsxr]

scott is a fast mofo. i probably have a couple more years til my times are as low as his are up there. but then again i will only be doing that track a few times a season now. i like the idea of traveling around alot better. im pretty psyched. i know my learning curve will increase bigtime.

[Super Dave]

Yes, as you travel, you become more acustomed to change.  You begin to recognize things, track to track, that are similar.  You'll have fun.