I am thinking about running a 1000cc twin...

[dave333]

I'm not looking to be the next hayden or bostrom or edwards, I just want to go out there and scrap with a bunch of like minded individuals.  I love the competition but getting to work on Monday is more important that 1st, 2nd or 3rd place.  I like the v-twins power delivery chararcteristics (no spinny rear wheely) and the 1000 has enough punch and acceleration to rock my world.  

What are the classes I can race in?  Which ones will a 1000cc liquid cooled twin be competitive in?  What do y'all see as the pro's or con's of racing a large twin?   tia!

[Eddie#200]

When you say Hayden are you already thinking Honda?

[sdiver68]

Have you thought about a built SV650/700?  Some of them are producing 85-100 RWHP.

The problem with a big twin is everything is a compromise.  A Ducati has the performance but is expensive and finicky (btw I have a very nice almost fully race prepped but street 996 for sale for a good price).  In near stock form, the TL is too heavy, the RC51 also and has ground clearance issues.  Maybe the SV1000 will be better?

I think LTWT twins may be an excellent class for you, if you don't want to be thrown into the "always racing with us turn 1 Crazies" class ;)

[dave333]

I said NOT, Ed.  Friends don't let friends ride h0nd@s...

[dave333]

if you don't want to be thrown into the "always racing with us turn 1 Crazies" class ;)

No worries about T1 crazies, Steve.  If I run a 600 next year I'm just gonna lean it over a little more and roll on the throttle a little harder...  ;D  FWIW, this was my first year racing, my 2nd year riding (at least since I was 16), and I don't think I did too badly.  Now that I know a little more about tires and traction, I believe I can lap much faster.

LTWT twins don't have the punch or top end I'm looking for.  I race because I like to go fast quickly.  It's an andrenalin thing... An 85-100hp SV has reliability issues I'm not interested in attending to. 

I already rode an SV and it was unexciting.  That's why I got the R6.  I'm hoping the Suzuki twin will be race worthy or I may look toward Italy for a solution...

I still need to know about appropriate classes and whether or not a 120hp v-twin would be competitive.  What other bikes would a 1000cc twin be racing against?

[Eddie#200]

I said NOT, Ed.  Friends don't let friends ride h0nd@s...

Funny aren't I?

I'm thinking TL1000s?  I have one as a street bike and really like it.  It's not heavy and is fun to blast around on.

[Protein Filled]

A 1000 CC twin would be legal for heavyweight and unlimited classes, which one's depends on the bike, but it would mostly be GTO, Heavyweight Supersport, Heavyweight Superbike,  Unlimited SS, Unlimited Superbike, Unlimited GP.

Now, being competitive is all up to you and which series you are racing... :)

[Eddie#200]

A 1000 CC twin would be legal for heavyweight and unlimited classes, which one's depends on the bike, but it would mostly be GTO, Heavyweight Supersport, Heavyweight Superbike,  Unlimited SS, Unlimited Superbike, Unlimited GP.

Now, being competitive is all up to you and which series you are racing... :)

Don't forget SuperTwins!

[dave333]

Now, being competitive is all up to you and which series you are racing... :)

Ahh yes.  The Dave factor.  Understood.  My question though, is the 1000cc twin capable of propelling a rider to a championship in any of those classes you mention?  I know, Freddie Spencer could ride a Vespa and win a championship but I'm just worried about showing up at a gun fight with my swiss army pen knife...

[dave333]

A 1000 CC twin would be legal for heavyweight and unlimited classes, which one's depends on the bike, but it would mostly be GTO, Heavyweight Supersport, Heavyweight Superbike,  Unlimited SS, Unlimited Superbike, Unlimited GP.

Sounds like I would be racing gixxer thou's in a few of those classes...

[KBOlsen]

Dave - I'd be willing to bet you'd do well!

[dave333]

Dave - I'd be willing to bet you'd do well!

 ;D

As long as sdiver and I stay away from T1 meetings!!!  :o

[Protein Filled]

I believe they can, but it depends on what tracks  and what classes you will be running. In the novice classes, I won the Supertwins championship in 3 different regions on my SV racing against Ducati's, Honda's and Buell's that made more power. For expert classes it's a bit harder, but it can still be done. IE, in the Midwest region, look at Matt Carr and Kevin Hanson, they both rode ducs and are in the top ten in points. It also does not hurt that they run Midwest, where we run  6 races BHF and Mid-America, both short tracks where hp does not count for so much. Rick Brewer also won the Formula 40 on a Honda.

[sdiver68]

Hey, didn't mean to imply anything  :-/, just thought you were looking for different classes.  A 1000CC twin in anywhere close to privateer state of tune will for the most part be handed it's azz (rider skill equal) in the multi-classes and really only has 1 class where you won't race against 4's and therefore be competitive---Supertwins (excepting you could also be competitive in Formula 40).  Whereas LTWT has several classes.

But, as you say a reliable LTWT isn't going to give you the rush you are looking for, so IMHO I would stay with 600cc as the best combination, except for having to race with some people who think they WILL be the next Hayden.

[Ripper]

     If a set up SV650 can't give you enough of a trill on a circuit then you should go buy an old GS or Kawi and go drag racing.
     The best way to improve you riding is to get a LTWT and learn how to use 100% of the bike.You'll learn more about braking,entry speeds,corner speeds,exiting without the intimidation of hp.But,that's if YOU really want to learn to go faster.Good skills will help you move on to any bike and go fast,but running mid pack and relying on hp is,well.....being in the way for the next 3 yrs. ::)

[Litespeed]

After  completing my first race weekend on an RC51 (raced a ZX6r the entire season) I guess I can give you some of my info.  I found that I was as fast on the twin as I was on the 600 (lap times showed the same correlation) but I also felt that I wasn't pushing the 51 since I was somewhat new to it.  In time I am honestly expecting to be faster on the 51 for most tracks.  How does this show up in a competition against the other bikes in the bigger classes?  I have seen that most tracks don't favor the bigger horsepower bikes and that the 600's are always competitive against the bigger bikes.  So, my assumptions for me next year is that I will be competitive in ULGP, HWSS, HWSB and GTO on the 51.  

[dave333]

A 1000CC twin in anywhere close to privateer state of tune will for the most part be handed it's azz

That's the info I needed!  Thank ya Steve!

You mean you weren't telling me to get my slow carcass over to ltwt twins?  (no prob...  ;D )  I'm gonna be a lean, mean fightin' machine next year.  Or not...

[khanson]

Dave,

Kevin Hanson here.  I raced basically a stock 996 all year with CCS.  The engine work I did was just to make it bulletproof.  I did 17 weekends with no dnf's.  Yes they do cost some more to maintain than jap bikes, but not as bad as you think.  I had MCC check the valves every 4-5 weekends.  Usually, my competitor Matt Carr did the work on it from MCC. I won 2 championships and finished in the top 5 of everything else.

As far as fun factor goes, a Ducati simply blows everything away.  I rode Gixxers this year in team challenges and they don't come close to being as easy or fun to ride. Ducs handle incredibly well and you can just ride the front all day long on the bike.  Yes, I did give up some hp to Gixxer 750's.  However, ask anybody that saw me race this year and I could kill people through turns 2-6A at blackhawk.  I ran 14's on it at Blackhawk. Also, they crash really well and you don't bend the frames.  You only suffer at the big tracks.  I could always finish top 5 on it and I was a first year expert and ran HWSB, UNLSS, ST, UNLGP.  Supertwins is a blast because people don't try and kill one another and there are a lot of the same bikes being ridden.

My 2 cents is stay away from the RC51, they are heavy, don't handle well and it's nothing like Colin Edwards bikes.   TL is way to heavy.  An SV is a blast and a lot of fun to ride. GO WITH THE DUC though!  Mike Riebe rode an SV all year and I let him ride my 996 one day and he about pissed his pants because he got so excited.

Actually my Duc is fully set up and for sale.  I'm working on a ride for AMA next year and my motor is fresh and ready to go.  The only thing I would do is put cams and big valves in it and the thing would rip. Call me if you want to talk 217-493-3811.

Sorry for being long winded everyone.

Kevin

[FullMoonRacing]

IMHO...

There's no way a built up, properly set up SV could "lack in thrills".

[khanson]

I raced Riebe's SV with him in 2 of the team challenges this year and had lot of fun on it.  The only downfall with the SV is the front forks.  You don't have the adjustability without tearing them apart everytime you want to change something.  However, you can put GSXR forks on one, but at what cost do you have in the bike.

For the under $10,000 a person could buy my bike.  A built SV is going to cost just as much by the time you get done with it.  I like the SV's a lot, I just have a fondness for the Ducati's.  Once you ride one it's hard to get off one.

Kevin

[dave333]

IMHO...

There's no way a built up, properly set up SV could "lack in thrills".

Not disputing that at all!  I will dispute whether or not it is reliable with minimal care and feeding like a stocker is.  btw, fwiw, I am talking about my preference.  The stock SV can be a blast for a lot of people, just not me...

[dave333]

I'm working on a ride for AMA next year...
Kevin

Good luck on landing that AMA ride, thanks for the info...

[Super Dave]

Now to put things in perspective, Kevin Hanson is a very, very good rider.  So, his doing 14's at Blackhawk is very good.  Fastest 600 times there is in the 13's.  Mike Reibe's bone stock engined SV with suspension...Mike did a high 17's on it.  

Power wise, the Ducati 996 made good 600 number HP with great amounts of torque.  But now with new R6's coming in weighing 354 pounds dry stock...

But for what you could buy Kevin's bike for... That would be a good deal.

[chris_chops]

Hi Dave!!!!!
  Do I need more ride height or some 22's.  Anyone out there put 22's on a 998 yet?  Or maybe a 22 on the back with a 19 up front!
                                                  Matt

[dave333]

Matt - Congrats on #8 and #9  Way to freaking go!!!   ;D  Which # are you gonna run / will they let you run?

re: weighting the front end: Can't you use lead bricks on the top of the triple clamp?   :o

[FullMoonRacing]

Not disputing that at all!  I will dispute whether or not it is reliable with minimal care and feeding like a stocker is.  btw, fwiw, I am talking about my preference.  The stock SV can be a blast for a lot of people, just not me...

As far as reliability/finicky behavior goes, you don't HAVE to build the SV to 100+ HP.  You can back off on the level of mod a little to build in a little reliability factor, eth?

[Super Dave]

 Do I need more ride height or some 22's.  Anyone out there put 22's on a 998 yet?  Or maybe a 22 on the back with a 19 up front!
                                                  Matt

I think that the Yamaha R6R that is rumored to come out will have 22's, front and rear.  All of the tire manufacturing technology will go that route.  I would bet that putting the 22 on your "R" will dramatically change its handling for the better....

See you on the corner....Homie!

[khanson]

Super Dave,

Don't make me hit you with my smooooth because I'm fittin' to put your bus up on flat!  Already got the 22's ordered for the dually.... player!!!!  :o

[Super Dave]

You know we know you're the PO-LEEC.   Ain't gonna change.

She was a freak...