NESBA will be at Road America on Thursday April 21

[firerider]

WOW :o Like I said track days are for track days, racing--well you get the picture. I dont think either organization meant to start anything, both are great at running track days, so can't we all just get along :D
Well at least until the flag drops ;)

[G 97]

I have heard a lot about NESBA but as a racer don't find what I hear appealing. First, there is no way that a serious racer can get a good setup running 20 minute sessions, especially at RA. By the time you get the bike up to speed, tires and suspension warmed up, and turning good lap times the session is over, let alone if you pull into the pits to turn a knob etc. Also, street riders abound. I know they are not in every session but their numbers limit the amount of free space for racers on the same strip of tarmac or at least to accomodate them more sessions are necessary and so the sessions become shorter. Lastly, and mostly...control riders. I won't really spill my guts on this notion, but lets just say I strongly disagree with the whole notion. Oh and the membership fee thing is a burden also. In my opinion at this time it just sounds way too restrictive for a serious racer to get serious ride/setup time. For a street rider that needs some hand holding and slow/new racers this may be a decent program.

Rob I guess to each their own.  The really good thing is that being a "racer", if you do not agree with or you do not feel that the NESBA format and structure is to your benefit you simply do not have to participate.  We still welcome you, but the choice is yours.  What I don't understand is why you are making an issue out of it.  If you feel it does not work for you, fine.  Don't participate.  I would also bring into question your objectivity since you are currently affiliated with another track day organization.    

I have to disagree with your statement with not being able to obtain a good set up at RA using 20 minute sessions.  Yes, 20 minutes is not ideal and can be a bit restrictive.  At least we are providing an opportunity.  In years past there was no practice days available for RA.  You got two 15 practice sessions if you were lucky.   RA is far from a difficult track to obtain a good set up for.  It's probably one of the easiest ones, if not the easiest on the AMA schedule.  I would even rate Blackhawk and MAM as being more difficult.  Not sure what you would classify as a "serious racer" but I can only quote Geoff May last year at our event when he stated: "this place (RA) is not hard to find speed."  Michael Himmelsbach did not seem to have any problems either.  
  
Track density is always an issue.  NESBA limits the number of riders per group at 60 for RA.  The other organization put its limit at 100.  What am I missing here?

Ah yes, Control Riders - The heart and sole of the entire NESBA organization.  Why would anyone strongly disagree with an organization providing a safe, structured, learning environment that enables riders to become better via "control Riders"?   If we are talking the Advance group, NESBA does not employ CR's in this group.  NESBA Advance sessions are run very similar in feeling and in structure much like a typical open race practice. I.E.  NO RESTRICTIONS.   For the Beginner and Intermediate groups CR's function like track coaches and teachers helping NESBA members improve and develop their skills in order to become safer and faster riders.

I have always taken a position of discussing NESBA's positives rather than highlighting other organizations short comings.  But since you have broached the subject; I am puzzled by an organization that has a basic open format of combing all riders of various skill levels on the track at the same time with no guidance, all the while believing it creates no issues or safety concerns, while at the same time it markets an event that is restricted to "expert racers" only.  Seems a bit contradictory to me.  Why do you make this distinction?  I can only surmise it is for the same basic reasons why NESBA employs a separate group structure based on skill level.  Having a race license, be it expert, amateur, or novice is not an absolute criterion of a rider's skill level.  

NESBA is also an approved and authorized race license procurement organization with several racing organizations including CCS.  

[LMsports]

As for Sean...Whooooaaa. Where did that come from. I was commenting on the NESBA structure.

As for Garth...thanks for the clarification. I appreciate your explanation of how your day works for advanced riders.

Firerider...good point. I think two different things are being offered here when you stand back to look at it. Track Addix is bringing in a racer practice opportunity and NESBA is providing a regular track day. I don't see anything negative in either one.

I don't want to give off any negative vibes against either organization. I'm glad that both providers are looking to give us the time to get on track. Hopefully they work well together in concert for us...the riders, so that we can enjoy a great start to the season with both of their organizations.

[firerider]

 ;D ;D

[firerider]

Heck if ya want the track time do both ;)

[TrackAddix]

Track density is always an issue.  NESBA limits the number of riders per group at 60 for RA.  The other organization put its limit at 100.  What am I missing here?

I am puzzled by an organization that has a basic open format of combing all riders of various skill levels on the track at the same time with no guidance, all the while believing it creates no issues or safety concerns, while at the same time it markets an event that is restricted to "expert racers" only.  Seems a bit contradictory to me.  Why do you make this distinction?

Here's what your missing Garth!

We limit the total number of riders attending our "No Session" track days.  The limit is variable depending on track size.  While we may have 100 riders total at an event, riders take breaks at different times and of different lengths.  While some riders are still on the track, other riders are taking a break or tuning their bikes.  There only tends to be about half the total riders on track at any given time during our events.

Here's something else you are missing!  

You make reference to our events being contradictory.  We work hard to meet the needs of the market place.  There is no actual "Racer Only" practice available for such a huge weekend at Road America.  Racers don't like dodging street riders while trying to get their bike dialed in, skills back up to speed after a long winter offseason, and lowering their lap times.

Street riders don't like getting stuffed by racers who are trying to get some serious practice in before a race weekend where there is big money on the line.

There is a huge difference in intensity level between a "track day" and an actual "race practice".  We polled the market place and have organized an event to meet the needs of the racers.

With the increased track time available at our events, racers can set their crew up in the hot pit and have enough time in a longer session to actually make some changes and then head back out on the track while things are still fresh in their minds.

We can argue the difference in our philosophies all day long.  But obviously the way we run our "No Session" track days works quite well as is evidenced by our safety record, not to mention that organizers who provide a 3 session format have either gone out of business or ceased to book dates at tracks like MAM, HPT, and BIR where TrackAddix has entered the market place.

So lets agree to disagree regarding that issue.  I have contacted you twice by email attempting to work together to our mutual benefit and especially to the benefit of the racers.  I am willing to lay all of this to rest and work together.  Now what do you say?  Let's put on one hell of a week for everyone!  I am still waiting for your call.

[tstruyk]

I have heard a lot about NESBA but as a racer don't find what I hear appealing. First, there is no way that a serious racer can get a good setup running 20 minute sessions, especially at RA. By the time you get the bike up to speed, tires and suspension warmed up, and turning good lap times the session is over, let alone if you pull into the pits to turn a knob etc. Also, street riders abound. I know they are not in every session but their numbers limit the amount of free space for racers on the same strip of tarmac or at least to accomodate them more sessions are necessary and so the sessions become shorter. Lastly, and mostly...control riders. I won't really spill my guts on this notion, but lets just say I strongly disagree with the whole notion. Oh and the membership fee thing is a burden also. In my opinion at this time it just sounds way too restrictive for a serious racer to get serious ride/setup time. For a street rider that needs some hand holding and slow/new racers this may be a decent program.

I know some took offense to this post... but would the post have been just as offensive if it had come from.... me?  I am nobody, 1st year racer, spent all last year doing TD's (sessions and no sessions)  I know in business there is always animosity but nowhere in that post did it mention anything about TA or "no session"... simply didnt agree with the format to be used as a racer practice.  I probably should have just let the thread die... but I wanted to pitch in my 2 cents.  1st time to RA.... 1st year racing... brand new suspension... I want all the track time I can get, at once.  2-3 laps, clickclickclick, 2-3 laps, clickclick...click.  You get the idea.  
As for levels of riders... quick question regarding NESBA... let say i attend my first event with NESBA, at what point am I able to ride in the Expert group?  Is it based on times?  The reason I ask is that if I am not "allowed" to pass mid corner... RA could be a tough one for me to get any work in against liter bikes.  
I've never met the guys from NESBA but have corresponded via email, quick responses to me and seem like easy people to deal with :-/ I DO know the guys from TA and Lithium and cant say enough about them.  Perfect world, to save me an extra day... NESBA wed TA thursday... #1 reason, I know what I am getting from dean and crew and have no doubts I'll get everything accomplished.  There is always room for more TD's if the market is willing!  Gateway went from 3 CCS races in one season and a handful of TD's... to scrapping to get 2 TD's.  I think its great there are so many TD providers out there.  However, what any organization should recognize is where their market share lies.  Are 20 min session at RA the best for racer practice, test and tune?  Probably not.. are they better for 1st year track riders with minimal experience?  for the most part... thats not to say that a NESBA event cant benefit a racer, as stated the expert level has no limitations but I redirect you to my question... how do I get there and how long does it take?  Can it be accomplished say... before lunch?  That gives me 1/2 a day at best to tune... not much time.  Not to mention I would be trying (on a new track... on new suspension) to "impress" the control riders so that I COULD get bumped up and get some tuning in... that cant be safe.

ANYhoo.... Not lookin to stir the pot, just seems to me that Rob pointed out this may not be the ideal set up for a racer practice, and everyone got all excited... no need for that.  Both are established orgs that have their nitch, both benifit the riding community, just in different ways.  If we cantt share our opinions and knowlege why bother with message boards?

tim

[OmniGLH]

I've done a few NESBA days.

If you're a faster racer, even the advanced group can be frustrating.  There are a lot of guys out there in the advanced group, that while they fall under the classification of an "advanced STREET rider" - racers they're definitely NOT.  You also need to keep in mind, while you're out there, that it IS a street-rider based track day.  You run a good chance of spooking someone if you pass too closely (and our definition of close is MUCH closer than a street rider's definition of close.)  And then there's the handful of guys who have liter bikes, and try to "keep up with a racer" - and wind up causing problems for you.  (tho to be honest - it's fun sometimes to mess with them, especially if it's a control rider... hee hee!)

But NESBA also doesn't sell themselves as a race practice organization.  They are what they are - a track day org.  As for you - it's track time, and some is better than none, right?  Just take it for what it is.

Is NESBA before the TrackAddix day?  If so... I'd say, hit the NESBA day, relax, and work your rider cobwebs out.  Be extra curteous, give lots of extra room, and only pass when the door is WIDE open (it's not that hard to do.)  Then, at the TA day, get serious and start concentrating on setup, etc.

[G 97]

Tim, not sure all of your issues can be addressed over the BBS.  You can ride in the Advance group immediately providing your riding skill level is commensurate.  

The only restrictions on passing are with Beginners. No passing in corners and designated straights.  Intermediates can pass on the outside of turns and everywhere else.  

Please don't confuse NESBA as marketing this as a racer practice day.  This is not the case.  With that being said it is still available for racers to utilize for practice.  My sole purpose was to highlight the fact that NESBA will be at RA and Racers can get some practice time.  I was just trying to clarify some issues that I felt were insinuations and misinformation relative to how NESBA operates.  

Tim let me ask you this.  Is it better to get on a new track with some guidance and instruction?  Or is it better to just take to the track and try and figure things out on your own?  For me it's not about if someone is a "racer" or what group they are in.  It's all about becoming a faster; more in control rider.

[Super Dave]

Please don't confuse NESBA as marketing this as a racer practice day.  This is not the case...

But it's immediately prior to round two of the FUSA series and pretty much the opening round of the local CCS stuff.

Last year, it was put between the FUSA race and the Michelin test dates...which are for racers.

Show someone that it isn't really designed to get the racer traffic...

April ain't no date to be havin' a good time at RA.  We'll be lucky to have temperatures in the 40's, cold shredding tires at the cost of what?

[G 97]

But it's immediately prior to round two of the FUSA series and pretty much the opening round of the local CCS stuff.

Last year, it was put between the FUSA race and the Michelin test dates...which are for racers.

Show someone that it isn't really designed to get the racer traffic...

We'll be lucky to have temperatures in the 40's, cold shredding tires at the cost of what?

Yep, I would agree.  

[Rick Beggs]

I AM JUST HAPPY SOMEONE HAS TRack days the day before a race, treat slower street guys like back markers, we need practice making clean passes on them too
does anyone have a list of who has the track day before each round of FUSA?
specificaly
june 23, VIR
aug 11 barber
sept 8 autobahn