ultralight superbike

[jcdennis47]

why isn't an rz350 legal. although a ducati 900cc is ?

[Zac]

Hey Joel, you found us ;D

It didn't occur to me until just now that they changed the ULWSB rules for this year.  You should e-mail Kevin Elliot (kevinelliot@cleanchannel.com), because he can aprove some bikes to be legal for lower classes, I think your RZ would qualify (though I remember seeing it pull Elaine's MZ once at Vegas).  It might be something like "RZ350s are legal with stock wheels" or something like that.  Just print out the email reply and carry it with you to the races in case anyone objects.

The rules for ULWSB have gotten screwy.  Technically my CR is a 500cc liquid cooled two stroke, but I go by the line that says "Single cylinder, unlimited displacement, unlimited frame", with no mention of two stroke vs four stroke.  If anyone wants to argue the point, the ULWSB class replaced LWSM and SuperSingles, and the CR was legal for SuperSingles (two strokes up to 515cc).

-z.

[Al_Soran]

Hey Joel...

The same Joel that helped out with my EX500 carbs?

If so, nice to see you here. We'll be running the EX one more season then moving up to a 600 or SV for 2006. Having the motors rebuilt and cleaning it up a bit more for 2005 and plan on running the full schedule.

As for your RZ being legal... it can't be, cuz I don't feel like chasing you around all season!  :o

Seriously, it should be legal based on what Zac stated, and if you don't make the jump to Expert, looking forward to racing with you again!

Ed

CCS  Southwest AM #39

.....count me as an "also ran!"

[MZGirl]

Joel's expert now after winning the Am. Ultralight Superbike championship.   ;D  I'll see you on the grid, Joel!   :D

Cool.  At least one EX500, my MZ, Zac's CR500, Joel's RZ, and if we can get both Hymers in then we'll be doing pretty good for grids in this class (compared to previous years).   :)

[brian213]

If I can make it out for any of those races, maybe I shall join you guys.  :)

-Brian

[wera331]

you better check the rules again desmo upto 805 non desmo 900

[Super Dave]

RZ350's can be built to make serious power.  TZ250 power.  I think the rules to knock it out of the class.  Should be legal in all the light weight stuff and Thunderbike.

[Zac]

RZ350's can be built to make serious power.  TZ250 power.  I think the rules to knock it out of the class.  Should be legal in all the light weight stuff and Thunderbike.

Sure, with all the cool Banshee parts on the market you could build an 80HP RZ, but how well would the 20 year old chassis use the power?  It ain't going to challenge a TZ250.  The SB rules limit how much chassis work you can do, you can't do much to the frame.

You can also get that kind of power out of a Duc 750SS (at a little over 300 lbs if you like to spend money), or a V-twin TZR250, or even a Hawk.  All of which would still out handle the RZ.  How about a Duc Supermono?  or a Tigcraft Midimoto?  Heck, I've seen 75 hp MuZs.  All legal for ULWSB.

The only thing I can see the new two-stroke displacement limit coming from is maybe someone building up a 350cc Aprilia RS.  An RZ350 should still be legal for the class.

-z.

[Super Dave]

I can get over 80HP out of an old H1 with about $2500 no problem...and still race the old chassis.

Don't under estimate what an old chassis can do.  

Look at Ducati's.  Tubular steel trellis frame.

Still comes down to basic chassis design for the bike to work for itself mechanically at the swingarm pivot and to give proper rider feedback with some things up front.

I think this bike is still Ultralight Superbike legal.

Just need a lower pan for it and to get the owner to get it out again.

http://worldmotorcycles.com/Pages/daytona02p.html

[Zac]

I can get over 80HP out of an old H1 with about $2500 no problem...and still race the old chassis.

Don't under estimate what an old chassis can do.  

In proper hands an old bike can go, but it dosen't mean much if the vintage riders is more skilled than the non-vintage rider.  I've embarrased track day guys on 600s with a '72 CL450 making somewhere around 35 hp, but my times were over 10 seconds off my 250 times.

Here's the lowdown on what you can do to the chassis and be SuperBike legal:

The frame must be as originally supplied by the manufacturer on the approved
model. Strengthening gussets or tubes may be added. Only brackets or tubes not
supporting suspension, engine, or drive line components may be removed. Swing
arms may be modified or replaced and rear shocks may be replaced or relocated.

You can brace the frame, but that's about it.  You can't change the head angle or the swingarm pivot location to change geometry, or move the engine to change weight bias.  The only geometry changes that can be made are ride height through fork height, shock length, and wheel diameter, or wheelbase with swingarm length.  Does your H1 have a stock head angle and swingarm pivot location?

Look at Ducati's.  Tubular steel trellis frame.

Steel doesn't mean old tech.  Just because a Ducati trellis and a Norton featherbed frame are of the same material does not mean they perform the same.

Still comes down to basic chassis design for the bike to work for itself mechanically at the swingarm pivot and to give proper rider feedback with some things up front.

I think this bike is still Ultralight Superbike legal.

Just need a lower pan for it and to get the owner to get it out again.

http://worldmotorcycles.com/Pages/daytona02p.html

Assuming the frame is legal and the stock cases are used, yes it would be legal.  Given equal riders, think it could beat a seriously built, 80 hp, 320lb Duc 750?  Or a hybrid 125/450 single?  And it would still cost less to build either of those bikes that to buy or recreate an RC750.

-z.

(just having fun with you SD  ;D)

[Super Dave]

Yeah, that CR750 would set you back about $70k.  The yellow one, it's the first Yosh bike for the US, it's now owned by Honda and is in the museum at Motgei.

Featherbed chassis...  They are made of pipe...heavy, not steel.

[K3 Chris Onwiler]

 Does your H1 have a stock head angle and swingarm pivot location?

The silence is deafening.... ;D