Tires

[ekraft84]

At least it's an unbiased opinion.  :)

[Sunny]

At least it's an unbiased opinion.  :)

I disagree, but........  Anyway, still good information!

[Super Dave]

Unbiased.

I started racing in 1987.  Dunlops.  K391 front and a prototype rear that became the K591.  Dunlop slicks then.  Raced an RZ350 that had Michelin Hi-Sports.  Used the first Dunlop Radials, the Sportmax.  Won races on them.  Raced on Michelin TX11's and TX23's of various origins and designs.  Won a lot of races.  Raced on Avon's in AMA events.  Thirteenth in 750 Supersport at Laguna in the rain on a 600..AM22's and AM23's.  Raced on Dunlop 364's, Sportmax II's.  Raced on Bridgestones, but not for long.  Vintage bikes...K591's, and the various Dunlop "vintage" tires.  Also Avons.  Returned to 600's on Michelins.  The Michelin tire contingency dropped off the face of the earth and I raced on Pirelli's, and we won three endurance championships in two years.  Michelin recommitted to contingency, and I have been on Michelin's the previous two sesaons.

Experience is different than bias.  

[ekraft84]

How were the Avons?  :)

[Super Dave]

I won races on them.  The contour of the tire was dramatically different from the Dunlops and Michelins and required a different set up.

Bias ply in 1993.  1994 they went to a radial tire, but they were reluctatant to let me use them at Daytona.  Did very well at Daytona in March, got a third behind that Mike Hale guy on a Factory Camel Honda (the factory teams used to race and practice in CCS stuff before politics got weird) and Randy Renfrow (RIP).  Carried a number one plate too...was kind of neat.  Big fields then.  We had 105 entries for the 80 spots on the AMA 600 Supersport grid.  Things are different now.

Anyway, the Avons were decent.  Didn't have the longevity of Michelins and Dunlops at that time.  So, if you were trying to do a nine race weekend, eventually, the traction would just collapse.  Haven't been on any very recently.  

Sometimes where the development comes from takes a toll on everything.  Asphalt in Europe is different from what it is here.  So, what works good there doesn't necessarily work well here.

The Avons were developed in England where temperatures were a little less than what we had in Topeka, Kansas in July.  We did some temperature testing at Daytona that March and they were "really concerned" at the temperatures they were getting.  

[ekraft84]

Sometimes where the development comes from takes a toll on everything.  Asphalt in Europe is different from what it is here.  So, what works good there doesn't necessarily work well here.
 

That's my point of view.  The fact that Moto GP is on Michelins, and that Bridgestone is recently a player within the past year doesn't do much for club/privateer racers.  Even at the AMA level, the Dunlops there aren't the Dunlops privateers are getting, so it's often an apples to oranges comparison.

[Super Dave]

The fact that Moto GP is on Michelins, and that Bridgestone is recently a player within the past year doesn't do much for club/privateer racers

I see your point, but it's not true.

I raced on tires at Daytona that had carcasses that were directly related to the MotoGP development.  We had a couple of take off DOT's with that carcass at the end of 2003.  That carcass is being used in the new Michelin Pilot Power Sport and what ever they will call the new Michelin race tire.

Similar stuff happens for Dunlop too.  I remember some of the larger Dunlop K591's were exactly as the slicks but just in a different mold.

If you're not buying your tires from your local, friendly race distributor, you might not be getting the up to date stuff.

[ekraft84]

I am, but I know you/we aren't getting the same Dunlops or Michelins that Mladin and Bostom are/were getting.  I agree that the technology trickles down, but that's it.

[Super Dave]

I am, but I know you/we aren't getting the same Dunlops or Michelins that Mladin and Bostom are/were getting.  I agree that the technology trickles down, but that's it.

Well, no, but they are racing on 16.5's.  But the team that I was consulting with in 2003...there was direct availability of the exact same tires that Mladin and Bostrom (Ben) were using...Dunlops.