West Coast Racing

[Zac]

CCS was not well marketed in California, and the attendance suffered.

Very True, same in Arizona too. The Tucson area has around 3/4 million people now, and due to year-round riding has quite a few motorcyclists  Out of that, how many "active" (actually race multiple times a year) motorcyle racers are there?  I'd say around 25 or so.  Of those, how many show up to the average Firebird race - usually 2, Elaine and I.  At most 4 or 5 from Tucson.  Most of them are racing ASMA, which is farther from Tucson than PHX is.  ASMA even has people who live in PHX that only race ASMA.

We also have a ton of riders who go to some abandoned wherehouse to do some stunting, and a bunch of guys trying to kill themselves on Mount Lemmon or Kit Peak.  Why don't they want to come race?

-z.

[Super Dave]

IMHO- There is too much racing available and not enough racers.

This pretty much says it all...

I thought you started this thread?

Racing organizations are still businesses, regardless of their profit or non-profit status.

You can't loose money on every event and expect to make up for it in volume.  If you lose $2000 at each event, having ten of them means you loose $20k.  

More promotion?

I always hear that...

To whom?  Racers?  What more can someone do?  Most racers are only involved for a couple of years.  Most.  Where the next crop comes from....  Well, good question.  Honestly, road racers make up a small fraction of motorcycle riders period.  How much money would you like to spend and where do you spend it?  I'd probably spend most of my money in RRW magazine and a couple of things like that.  

Anyone elxe got any ideas for CCS?  


Roger, I remember Larry Locklear.

That make 728 weekends available!!!

Probably not going to be open on the Christmas or New Years weekends, so that brings you down to 700...

But what about the SCCA, ASA, CART, and every other organization that caters to track days...

Go carts...

Car track days...

Charitable events?

We can make a long list.  I think that certainly cuts down on any available dates for each program.

As for the distance traveled...

Is this really an issue?

I didn't think racing was about convenience.  When I starte road racing, I did it because I wanted to.  I wanted to be faster, better.  I wanted a ride, something.  I started  when I was living in Omaha, Nebraska.  The closest race track was 442 miles away.  Rockford, IL.  Next was about 460...St Louis, IL, Then Brainerd, MN.  Hallett, OK, next.  Finally, Second Creek Raceway in Denver.  If I wanted to chase a championship, I was going to have to travel.  

If you want local travel, stick to one track, or try something like motocross where there are more tracks available.  Might make things better.

Road racing will never be convienient.  Isn't there a certain amount of  exclusivity that makes road racing a bit cooler to you?  

[Bad_Matt]

Evidently you missed my point- there are too many race organizations in this area to have multiple conflicting dates. Especially for an organization like CCS that is looked upon by most of the locals as second rate.  The people we are trying to attract choose to go to other races instead.

You point out that you can't loose money and stay in business.  I add to that- you cannot stay in business if you continually upset and screw your customers.  65-70% of each event held in the SW&P was made up of racers from California.  

CCS ran at Buttonwillow on the same weekend as the World Super Bike/ AMA round at Laguna Seca.  There were even racers that were in the points hunt that did not show up because they went to Laguna Seca.  This infighting caused the lowest attendance at any event I have ever been too.  Even the tire vendors bailed out to go to the bigger event.  

I know we cannot have a perfect world; however, CCS is one of the last organizations to put their calendar up.  This should give them time to work out the major pro race conflicts.    

Need more?  We even have internal conflicts-  I would love nothing more than to show up to the Awards banquet for the SW&P regions for last year.  They scheduled it the same time as a national race I intend to race.  Again, making me choose which event I want to go to.  


This is one of the obvious ways to keep your clients.

Distance traveled?  Yes it is important, when you change it this dramatically.   Look at the numbers again.  A Bay Area racer that ran all 11 races on the schedule was likely to put in 10100 mile last season.   Take in consideration that a Phoenix based racer would put on 7500 mile for the same season.  Now the distance becomes 12500 for the CA racer and 3000 miles for the Phoenix for 8 races instead of 11.  That is an Average of 1562 for each race vs. 918 from the previous year.  My transport cost have now doubled.

Why do I keep pointing to the Bay Area?  Because that is where the regions best customers have historically driven from over the past three years.  That is where CCS has made money.  By balancing the venues between the SW & P you keep your current customer base-  not alienate them.

I do not look for convenience here, just parity from year to year.  I really did want to continue racing the same regional area.  Not a difficult request in my eyes when you work out the details.  From where I am standing, it seems to be quick decisions based on emotion rather than a calculated response to the real.  Hearing the CCS official and a track owner shout "we don't need you" and "we don't need you either" led me to that conclusion.

[Super Dave]

I know we cannot have a perfect world; however, CCS is one of the last organizations to put their calendar up.  This should give them time to work out the major pro race conflicts.  

Ok, I don't work for CCS.  Never have...

But I've been around to know enough.

CCS's schedule is probably proposed to each track at around August.  Each track will start putting together dates on their own schedule.  CCE won't let CCS do certain things with their schedule until certain things contract wise are met.

Conflicts...

Well, each organization, racing and track day, operate a bit in their own vacuum.  You can't make someone have something on a particular day.  You go about focusing on your program.  

By many people's admission, there are too many organizations in the pacific area.  Second rate?  Well, might be.  Can't answer that myself...I'm a bit more east when I'm racing...unless someone flys me out to ride a vintage bike or it's part of my program.

I don't think you've had anyone that actually works in the CCS office reply to this thread.  Emotional responses?  I've known Kevin Elliott for a really long time, and I'll say one thing.  Emotional responses are not really part of what he does.  I've seen him in situations where I though he should be pretty darn mad, and I'm being nice, but he held his cool and made a pretty fair decision...the other parties were emotional.

If the Bay area is saturated, as it really is I'm sure...The AFM has been around for 40 plus years right?  My personal mentor was one of the AFM's senior instructors, anyway, I doubt that CCS can knock them off, and why would they?

But will the AFM offer a program to racers more centered in the Phoenix area?  Back to growth and all, where might it come from?  

I'm not arguing, but, I guess, the schedules are set.  Decisions were made.  

WERA left Blackhawk Farms in 1988, I believe.  That's in the heart of the Chicago market.  Big, like the Bay area, but we have winter.  WERA had to do it.  CCS took up the slack.  I'm sure the AFM or WSMC or WERA will have something to offer.  

Each year is different.  Change is part of it all.

[Bad_Matt]

the AFM is a great organization.  Actually been around for 50 years.  They attracted enough racers to have 90+entrants for what ammounts to LWGP.  Way too many on the grid in my opinion.  Turn 1 is pretty interesting.  I was pleased that there was an alternative.  Many of the racers there look at CCS as a bastard step child.  I get so sick of hearing AFM this and AFM that in comparison to CCS.  AFM runs three tracks over 8 races.  Not hard to do.  CCS runs hundreds of events at 50+ venues.  

With CCS gone, I am left to running AFM.  If  I get 3 races I am lucky.  They have a wait list policy because there are too many racers.  Too bad CCS can't attract a few of them.  Could work better if they did not schedule events against them.

[Super Dave]

Don't look at it as CCS scheduling against them.  Things just happen.  If T-hill has one dated open for MC racing, what can CCS do?  AFM has a window for their schedule too.  

For a long time, the AFM has been "full".  

I understand that it's a great organization...

But lining up 90 bikes on a grid at Sears?  The field is limited to 80 at Daytona.  I know, they've been doing it for years.  It's still kind of spooky.

[rotoboge]

But lining up 90 bikes on a grid at Sears?

Anybody got any pics of the "90 bikes going into a turn one"? Would love to see it, but would not want to be a part of it! :o

[L8brake731]

Matt, Dave, Zac and the rest of the racing community reading this banter:
I just have to say; "Well put Matt, well put Dave". There appears to be one extremely important factor missing in this equation. What are the numbers that satisfy Clear Channel Entertainment? After reading Dave's comments, he seems to have more of a pulse on CCS's finances that do some of the other racers. Do we even know what it takes to run this program? What is CCE's margin here (Pacific/Southwest)?
Until someone from CCS / CCE officially chimes in, we will just be in an endless volley. So, how about it; is there anyone listening (reading)? ???
The result is as what Matt Buck stated at this juncture; this is a loss for both CCS and the California racers.
Dave, you talk about corporations? "It's all bout the numbers"? How about CCE correctly delegating the responsibilities such as marketing, promotions and sponsorship to those who would effectively achieve financial satisfaction for CCE. This is where CCS has failed. Contractual arrangements, schedules, announcements are all part of the plan, the "communication plan". Leave the marketing and promotion tasks to those who CAN. It's not a fair posed question to ask racers "To whom?" or "what more can someone do?". It would be as effective if I asked a marketing expert in CCE, "how much fuel do I use in my sprint races?". As far as "what more can someone do?" the answer to that lays on someones BA or MBA shingle. Not on our racing licenses.
I live in So Cal, the trek will be longer, but the cost of extra days off for travel along with the cost of transport is definitely going to play a part in the frequency of participation from the California racers.
The list of Ca. racers is long, maybe not as long as Florida or Midwest but my guess is a viable ($$) contributor to CCS as a whole.... :(
Really now, what about what Ray Hymer asked; Why couldn't  CCS have made an annoucement regarding the elimination of Pacific and the addition of Arroyo? That is my question also. >:(

[Super Dave]

Well, good questions...

At what point does one know something?

Really, it might have came down to something very recently that caused the change.  

Have any of you actively talked to Kevin Elliott about this?

I've written rules, discussed purses, etc.  

I was recently on the phone with someone that has a successful track day program, and they told me about another track day organization that was willing to over bid a day to get in.

Well, CCS, the racers, we expect to pay $70 for our first race, $50 for the second, etc...whatever...we're generally not ready to pay a premium price...Daytona and Road America are exceptions...for certain opportunities.

One may not agree with the CCS staff, Ft Worth and Chicago, but they have been involved directly with racers one on one for years and years.  It's not like you're dealing with some corporate person.  I know that Kevin Elliott has struggled for some thing that he knew were better for the racers.  Sometimes, the corporation, CCE, swayed his way...sometimes not.

[RAY_HYMER]

I have an idea!!  :o
 How about several racers getting organized to commit to a couple of dates at Buttonwillow?  Just as CCS can cancel races, they can add them too, can't they?  The facility at Buttonwillow is by far the best in terms of pit space, restrooms, hot pit area, weather, race spectating views, eating area. etc.  The SW region has quite a gap during the summer. ;D
I don't know what the CCS costs of running Buttonwillow are, or the break even for that track, but maybe someone can tell us, and authorize a group (Steve, Matt, me, etc) to get pre registering done.  I'm sure Heather (the girl that works the gate at Firebird) as well as many others would help, too, if they were just asked nicely!   Give us some posters to put into motorcycle shops, with pre-entey forms, license applications, schedules, LP track day dates, school dates, etc.   Maybe even a link on the CCS website!  This won't necessarily cut transportation costs, but it may get new racers to come out, plus it will keep some of the California guys in the system until a good schedule can be organized (next year) that can be one region, but incorporate New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada, and California.  Maybe call it the West Region.
I like racing CCS, and would like to see it grow and prosper.  What do you say guys??   :)

[Super Dave]

I like your enthusiasm, Ray.

Might be hard.  First, you'd have to have a free day at the track.

And I know that CCE is really hard about changing contracts.  If it's a done deal, someone will have to show them (CCE, not CCS) why they should spend the effort.  

You've got some people that might want to help here, though.  

[Roger@ASMA]

Ray, please call me asap.

Roger