Hey Mark Bernard...........

[Super Dave]

Yeah, so, everything is global.  Ford uses technology from Volvo and Jaguar.  GM uses technology from Saab and Opel.  Chrysler...well, you know.

Ultimately, I do worry about all this.

I live here in the United States.  I'm probably going to continue working in the United States.  Figure my kids will too.

What goes around comes around.  Isn't all of Dell's phone help in India now?  Well, when Haji needs to get his hair cut or buy a Big-Gulp from the convienence store, it's isn't going to be from downtown Omaha, it'll be from New Deli, India.  

Doesn't pay taxes in my state to keep my kids in school or keep the teachers here buying houses or gasoline from the gas station in Waukesha.  

Doesn't help me pay my insurance premiums for my old car.

I had a friend that worked as a German auto mechanic.  Another friend was really well off.  He thought that German cars were God's gift to man even though he was Italian himself.

Marvin, the mechanic, put it pretty well.  "They've been making these things for over one-hundred years.  They know how to make 'em...they just make 'em to break.  All cars suck."

Stuff isn't built to last forever.  I'm no GM fan, but I've went on independent service calls with my friend to replace master cylinders on Audi's with 40k on the odometer out of warranty.  That's ridiculous, I thought.  And that's suppposed to be an upscale car.  Guess those upscale customers don't complain so much.  If you've got that kind of cake to drop, you might not complain.  But if you're making $18k a year, you'd be pretty sensative to issues like that.  

My sister-in-law makes good money as a doctor of veternary medicine in SF.  She can scope cat's all day long.  But she doesn't understand that I don't want her buying my boys Christmas gifts that are made in China.  First, my boys are pretty sensitive to the fact that all the junky toys seem to say "Made in China" on them.  The other side is that she doesn't have any customers in China.  Nor do I.  They don't help me with anything.

I used to buy shoes.  Still do yet.  I'd buy a new pair of shoes ever year.  Some lasted the year, some were pretty shot before then.  Nike, Reebok, K-Swiss.

Finally, I started getting this idea that maybe I should buy some Red Wing Shoes.  Hey, my dad worked on his feet for over thirty years (he was union...I think he wasn't lazy...when he came back from the Korean War, they finally got electicity at the farm) and wore Red Wings.

So, at Daytona in 2001, I walked out on my ride...long story...and I went over to the Red Wing Shoe store just west of the Speedway and bought my first pair of Red Wing Shoes.  Hey, made in USA.  Great shoes.  After a year and a half of wearing them pretty much every day, I thought I should buy a second pair of shoes.  Went to an outlet and bought their lower line called Worx.  They are off shore built shoes distributed by Red Wing.  Well, they sucked.  Nine months later, they are the grass mowing shoes.  

Still have my first pair of Red Wings.  

I buy those shoes and at least I can say that, maybe, someone from the Red Wing factory might buy a school date from me.  Maybe their kids will buy their pop from my kids when they are working at Burger King trying to make money to go to school here.  

Here's my beef...

Vanson makes leathers.  Great leathers, for that matter.  Other manufacturers make leathers too, but they certainly don't have to pay $20 an hour plus benefits to their workers.  Yet the prices are not so far apart.  Vanson sells an excellent product for fair money...meanwhile, other manufacturers sell other leathers at a hugely inflated profit above the cost.  

Ford, GM, and Chrysler make pretty decent products.  Nothing and no one are perfect.  And some people just seem to be bad at picking things...don't know why, but I don't seem to have many problems with vehicles.  Anyway, you can buy a Focus, Neon, or Cavalier for a certain amout of money, or pay a little less and get a Hundai, Kia, or Daewoo.  

Really!

So, how much do they pay their builders?  I doubt that the guy building a Kia is paying anything that would keep any US teacher employed so that she can pay here property taxes and car insurance or even buy gas to help keep the roads kept up in Iowa City.

Long warranties...  Where did people loose sight on this...  If it wears out, it's not warranty.  

Yeah, I ride a Japanese motorcycle.  The standards for pay in Japan are at least fair.  We could talk about my alternatives, but that would need to be another thread.

[cornercamping]

Y  

Ford, GM, and Chrysler make pretty decent products.

Uhmm.. Dave.....   None of them make anything.  They assemble and market.  Nothing more.  They subcontract to suppliers.

 ;)

[cornercamping]

I hear what you're saying.  We sometimes ship things down to Mexico to be built.  Ironically enough, our contract circuit board builder, whom is the largest electronics supplier in the U.S., has it's headquarters in IL.  But, whenver we submit a new circuit board for quote, they submit it to the local plants and down to the Guadalajara (sp?) Mexico plants for quote.  Then, they get the quote between the two, and the lowest wins. Funny thing is, it's the same company.  They have Mexico bid against U.S. to see where it'll be cheaper to bid.  90% of the time, Mexico wins.  Then, supposidly in the next few years, they will be moving all production down to Mexico.  This company is "family owned" but also public.
The other weird thing is the quality.  Mexico produces boards in much higher quality and quantities, but the weird thing is that they use the same machines, and the machines build everything with very minimal human interaction.   Go figure...  ???

[Super Dave]

They assemble and market.

US workers.  Office people.  Lots of stuff.

Mexico, Canada.  Yeah, lots of things.

Mazda pieces in Fords.  Ford pieces in Mazda's.

Honda's designed and built in the US.  


Real problem is that price can't be everything.  I think older people understand this.  

What happens if you really need something made "locally", but there's no place that can make it for you?  

Computer stuff is a great example.  How long before all the geek jobs get sent overseas?  I'd bet that you could teach a guy code and have him doing the stuff that people here to for better than half the salary the a US worker gets...and his standard of living in his country with that salary would be better than the US guy.


When that US computer guy can't buy his upper end Acura anymore and has to curb back on other things...

What does that do to the economy here?

[spyderchick]

Computer stuff is a great example.  How long before all the geek jobs get sent overseas?  I'd bet that you could teach a guy code and have him doing the stuff that people here to for better than half the salary the a US worker gets...and his standard of living in his country with that salary would be better than the US guy.


When that US computer guy can't buy his upper end Acura anymore and has to curb back on other things...

What does that do to the economy here?

Tell that to the administrations of our local, state and national governments that don't put any really value on education for the middle class. The US ranks way behind many other countries in math and science, and our educational system is not equiped to deal with some of the challenges set to face our country in the foreseeable future. We will all be back to building things, because other countries will have the brain trust, and we will be the cheap labor.

If they need to save money in the local school, they should first cut extra-cirricular activities, but if the football team isn't getting uniforms, a whole army of parents show up, but if you decide to cut one 3rd grade teacher and the music program funding...no one will show up.

It's on us as citizens to see that the next generation be broadly educated, in everything from science math and history, to languages, art and culture. The schools can't do it, they don't have the funds. If we as a community placed the priorities right, and made teachers, schools and education an economic necesity, I think we could turn the whole thing around. We need to get back to the real point of education...learning.

I could go on for pages...I'll get off the soapbox now.  

[L8brake731]

Hey Mark or Buell_391-

Did you ever ask yourself why you like to compete so much? Is it fun? Is it for the rush you get knowing that you got it ALL together more than the other guy? That maybe some luck is on your side, too?
I have read this thread and I find that the sniveling that occurs when an employer refuses to "step up to the plate" and play hardball is discusting >:(! What stops any of you from uprooting and finding an employer who can compete better? Comfort zone-itis? Go where the money and the jobs are, everybody wins on that one. If you have reasons for staying, well that's your choice; LIVE WITH IT!
UNIONS? In days before labor regulations were put forth to protect the rights of employees, YES the Unions were a very pertinent part of our working class. NOW, I think that the general consensus will reveal that they have far outlived their usefullness. They suck the life from it's members in the form of what they call "UNION DUES" which you poor suckers pay for. Ask your self this; what are these UNIONS providing for the masses these days? The UNIONS cannot even come close to providing near the benefits (RET., SAV.,401's College Scholarship Grants, shall I go on?), not to mention the flexibility in vactions, hours worked, health benefits, Blah, Blah, Blah... Believe me, my father started a UNION in Chicago in the early 50's. Long enough?
As for taking AMERICAN jobs by purchasing foriegn products; I say this, "I work hard for my money, I buy whatever the heck I want"! Sooner or later I toss it and some UNION trash hauler will keep his job for another week.
It seems appearant that YOU race a Buell and most likely OWN a Harley or two. Did you realize that ever time you shift gears on your bikes that it was Porsche that was paid to design the works? What about some of the electronics? That was a smart decision by one of our AMERICAN companies, they are reaping the benefits of outsourcing and AMERICANA!!
It's all about WORLD business, $$, competition and being better than the other guy.
The BAR WAS RAISED, we just have to step up to it!!!
BTW, I work for a importer, we engineer all of our line (except for limited models, under 400 production) to utilize up to 50% of parts and or materials from countries we import to. North AMERICA is our largest market. Think about the jobs provided to AMERICANS.... Blah, Blah, Blah. Way to much time on this thread.

[cornercamping]

 :o

[Mark Bernard]

Hey Mark or Buell_391-

Did you ever ask yourself why you like to compete so much? Is it fun? Is it for the rush you get knowing that you got it ALL together more than the other guy? That maybe some luck is on your side, too?
I have read this thread and I find that the sniveling that occurs when an employer refuses to "step up to the plate" and play hardball is discusting >:(! What stops any of you from uprooting and finding an employer who can compete better? Comfort zone-itis? Go where the money and the jobs are, everybody wins on that one. If you have reasons for staying, well that's your choice; LIVE WITH IT!
UNIONS? In days before labor regulations were put forth to protect the rights of employees, YES the Unions were a very pertinent part of our working class. NOW, I think that the general consensus will reveal that they have far outlived their usefullness. They suck the life from it's members in the form of what they call "UNION DUES" which you poor suckers pay for. Ask your self this; what are these UNIONS providing for the masses these days? The UNIONS cannot even come close to providing near the benefits (RET., SAV.,401's College Scholarship Grants, shall I go on?), not to mention the flexibility in vactions, hours worked, health benefits, Blah, Blah, Blah... Believe me, my father started a UNION in Chicago in the early 50's. Long enough?
As for taking AMERICAN jobs by purchasing foriegn products; I say this, "I work hard for my money, I buy whatever the heck I want"! Sooner or later I toss it and some UNION trash hauler will keep his job for another week.
It seems appearant that YOU race a Buell and most likely OWN a Harley or two. Did you realize that ever time you shift gears on your bikes that it was Porsche that was paid to design the works? What about some of the electronics? That was a smart decision by one of our AMERICAN companies, they are reaping the benefits of outsourcing and AMERICANA!!
It's all about WORLD business, $$, competition and being better than the other guy.
The BAR WAS RAISED, we just have to step up to it!!!
BTW, I work for a importer, we engineer all of our line (except for limited models, under 400 production) to utilize up to 50% of parts and or materials from countries we import to. North AMERICA is our largest market. Think about the jobs provided to AMERICANS.... Blah, Blah, Blah. Way to much time on this thread.

Wow... Rob simply asked if Chrysler would be hiring anytime soon and all of a sudden this is a bashing type tread? Please....! I have been in the automotive industry for about 30 years. I know full well what parts are put in and from what countrys.

I saiid earlier... buy what you want. Its a free country.

Unions? Good? Bad? who cares? They have there problems and advantages.

Its too early in the morning!  I need coffee! :P ;)

[Dawn]

Like the old saying goes....  Opinions are like a _ _ _ _ _es, everyone has one.

Super_Dave, along with myself were asked to be moderators of this board to maintain its spirit and keep it on track.  We have made some decisions to lock threads and delete some that were getting out of hand and not maintaining the camaraderie that this BBS was created for.  

We encourage everyone to post and share his or her thoughts and opinions, but do it in a respectful manner.  Everyone has to deal with enough negativity in his or her daily lives; we don't need any more of it here.

Thanks,

Dawn

[Mark Bernard]

Well said Dawn! Thank you!

Cant wait to see you guys either!  ;)

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

Cant wait to see you guys either!  ;)

Especially me? ;D

[cornercamping]

Who "owns" the CCS BBS?  It's still "unofficial" right  ???