Supersport weight limits

Started by rmahr137, October 29, 2002, 07:28:00 PM

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Super Dave

You're missing the point...

Supersport was suppose to be a reasonable class.  Superbike was supposed to be the open rule class.

AMA Supersport?  Can we talk?  The top bikes there only have some resembleance to the ones you can I can buy and build.  600's that make 119 to 125HP?  Secret rules?  Outdated is relevant, but you're not racing against him.

The problem lies when at a certain level riders all ride very well.  However, a performance gap is there because of some strange rules in supersport that many over look.  Indeed, there are areas to expliot.  But I believe that it is not in the spirit of Supersport.  By adding a weight limit, it might at least serve to create a balance again in supersport and make excessive, and expensive, lightening an unnecessary expense.
Super Dave

Protein Filled

I agree with Dave. I personally don't think that a 301 pound SV should be supersport legal!

Even the "un-mentioned racer" above will tell you that he believes the rules are wrong. He is just taking advantage of the rules as they are written at this time. His ss bike is as fast as my superbike SV that makes over 15 hp more.
Edgar Dorn #81 - Numbskullz Racing, Mason Racin Tires, Michelin, Lithium Motorsports



Don't give up on your dreams! If an illiterate like K3 can write a book, imagine what you can do!

tcchin

Rather than weight limits that require additional equipment to enforce, why not use the AMA and WSMC style supersport rules? In those rules, the legal modifications are spelled out specifically and any other modifications are illegal. That is to say, the rulebook states that every modification is illegal with the exception of the few items that they list, as opposed to the CCS rulebook that takes the opposite approach. That way, the tech inspector can perform a visual inspection without the need for special equipment to detect illegal configurations.

BTW, 119 bhp AMA supersport bikes can be built while still conforming to the strictest interpretation of the rulebook.

rmahr137

Tim,

that would be great for me.  I am for either.  I really don't think it would be that much of burden to weigh bikes at tech, since it would only be the top three anyway (does any other position really count).  It would be great if CCS listed what you could do to a supersport bike and then everything else was off limits, i mean they do it for what you can do to the motor (for the most part, I am sure there is some room for creative minds to interupt those rules), they should do it for the rest of the bike.

Super Dave

Yes, I hope this is still fun....I'm still doing it.

Sure the top three should be "checked", but another bike in the field should be checked too.  All riders must be made to feel as they all have a chance.

I wanted the rules changed, many did, but for some reason, they are not going to be changed.
Super Dave

rmahr137

where did you hear that they aren't changing the rules?  You have too many inside sources man.

Oh well, we can always try again next year.

fourandsix

I think everyone has some valid points here. The 1st thing to consider is that it is only club racing , it should be for fun ! If some guy wants to spend a bunch of money on expensive parts so be it.When you beat him on your semi stock bike it is you that will have the last laugh. Take jessie janisch as an example , his dad bought him a wrecked SV650 , we straightened it , optimized the geometry , installed a pipe and a jet kit , did the suspension and he went out as was very competitive his first year roadracing. How he was able to do it was because he has raced a bunch of flatrack and other types of bikes and he is an exceptional young rider , sure he was on a properly set up bike but his main advantage was just being comfortable on a bike. My advice is save your money on all the exotic stuff , get your bike set up properly and invest in a dirt bike and go out and ride it. Also a few years back when you had to add weight to a 600ss to compete in 750ss at the AMA we had to add 22lbs to make our 600 pass tech , at Road America it slowed our lap times by 1 sec. So i wouldn't worry about the weight thing so much , i'm sure it wouldn't make that big a difference on the regional level unless you are already doing 13's at blackhawk.

Super Dave

And don't forget about the school he went to, Jim....  I'm here to help.

If the guy winning was just a mid packer, it would kind of be different...

But as you stated, this is club racing.  So, the playing field should be reasonably even in a production based class like supersport.  CCS appears to have a deal that it can have scales available at all regional events.  So, making the weight rules could be done.

Yes, the rider add's into the fact, and the rider we're talking about weighs about seventeen pounds...LOL!

I bet the rider continues to win, but the appearance of an unreasonable advantage is there.  Making weight limits should eliminate some of the questioning of the bike, and give other riders something to shoot for (a minimum weight.)

What think you?
Super Dave

Nate R

Yes, 1 second slower for 22 pounds more? But, with what, 110 hp? What happens when you have 70? That may make a much bigger difference when you have less HP. Still, though, you have a point. I don' t think it'd be much more than 2 seconds a lap with 70 HP.

But, then again, 2 seconds over 4 laps is quite a gap. Over a 1/2hour race, it's significant.

Nate

Nate Reik
MotoSliders, LLC
www.motosliders.com
Missing my SV :-(

Super Dave

Ed Key has done 1:17's with his light SV650 and 73HP.  I've done 1:13's on my 104HP (2001) GSXR600.  I know his SV is quite a bit lighter than my Suzuki, and he's quite a bit lighter than me.  

For reference...
Super Dave

Bam55

 :-/104? Dave, yours and my bike, done by the same guy, made more than 104 on pump gas! But reguardless, Dave I think I was a pretty decent example on a 125, different but hear me out. I average, I would be willing to bet 70lbs. some of them a full 100lbs.  heavier than pretty much all my competitors on the rs125 I was on. As long as I rode smooth as possible, I usually was in contention, worst finish was in third at B-hawk behind two national dirt track riders who combined to maybe make my weight of 210. to make us add 10-20lbs. to a 600 to run in heavyweight classes  won't make crap bit of diffence at the little tracks we ride at . BRING ON SOME RULE CHANGES!!!!!! ;D

Super Dave

My 1:13 was in 2001 when I dynoed it early in the year with 104.  When I ran the 13, I was running Power Mist TO137 and the number one exhaust header was broken at the head.

Would it make a difference in the overall result?  Probably not, but there needs to be some level of even handedness in Supersport;  it is, after all, supposed to be production based.
Super Dave