Kevin Elliott...since you're observing...

[eh427]

I second that opinion. I really enjoy the thunder bike class because of the diversity in bikes and I think the rules for that class keep things pretty competative. I also would like to see the F2 legal to run in some lightweight classes.

[Super Dave]

Did anyone read my post?

My F2 in Supersport trim made 93HP at the rear wheel.  That was in 1993.  And you want that to run in LWSS?  Hey, let's give the bike a 20HP advantage.  

Offer me that opportunity, and I'd go stink up LWSS on an F2.  I'm sure other guys would too.  Is that fair?  It's ridiculous at best.  At least in Thunderbike, there are high HP Buells and SV's to potentially race against.  What else would be fair?  Thunderbike is one of the few Afirmitive Action racing classes there is.

[james-redsv]

I think the Ducati 748 should be allowed in the thunder bike class. They could set the rule to 800cc on twins with desmo valves too. There really is no class for it now and in thunder bike it would fit right in with the older inline fours, buells and built SVs as far as HP to weight ratio. CCS really needs to find a place for the 748 since there are so many used ones out there to make cheap racer for someone who wants to race a ducati. This will also help the sagging supertwins class since the 748 can race in it as well.

[Super Dave]

The 748 is a competent middleweight bike.

Thunderbikes....well, they are performance indexed Lightweight Superbikes, pretty much.  

The 748 can make good power with an 800 kit...yeah, run it in FUSA Superbike where it belongs.

If the availability of them is so incredible, then they should already be in Supertwins, right?  

[Scotty Ryan]

I agree with Dave on making middle weight a purse paying class.I know that CCS has to make maney as well but I still think that the racers need a little incentive.

[Woofentino Pugrossi]

My F2 in Supersport trim made 93HP at the rear wheel.  That was in 1993.  And you want that to run in LWSS?  Hey, let's give the bike a 20HP advantage.  

How about just allowing me to run a F2 in LWSS? Most of those guys will lap me anyways. ;D ;D ;D

[Super Dave]

How about just allowing me to run a F2 in LWSS? Most of those guys will lap me anyways. ;D ;D ;D

Afirmitive action in racing?

[George_Linhart]

Peace Super Dave!

I did read your post and I think I said maybe LWSS OR maybe LWSB.

Remember, your bike put out this kind of power in 1993 - I am not sure if anyone would put the time and money into an F2 today to get it back up to 90+ HP to race in a non-purse paying class.  I might be wrong at this guess, but, I would think a bunch of guys like me have retired bikes and would put a couple of hundred bucks into it to get it back on the track just for fun IF there is more than a single race where it would be competitive.  I can not see the logic of the time and expense of having the engine completely re-built and hot rodded when there is no contingencies to be won and the classes don't pay a purse.

One last point on the issue, for what its worth I have seen "claims" of SS legal SV650's at about 80 to 85 bhp (although this may be the typical selling exageration).  I will get my F2 on a dyno next weekend and see where it is, but I hope for something like 85 bhp (and would be thrilled for anything beyond).

I would be happy to have pre-1993 water cooled 600 I-4s performance indexed it into LWSB and GT Lights and I will gladly offer to race the guys running SVs that are down to 320 lbs and putting out in excess of 95 HP.  Basically, I guess I am suggesting that we should have more "afirmative action" in the classes so older bikes can remain competitive rather than running at a huge disadvantage in terms of power and weight to the latest and greatest from the manufacturers.  I certainly don't like the suggestion that Thunderbike should only be legal for "modern" twin cylinder bikes as we would just have another supertwins class.

I guess there is also a question of CCS vs. FUSA.  I note Eric's point is very specific with regard to FUSA rather than CCS and the desire for uniformity at the "Pro" level.  I still disagree with that as I don't think that uniformity is good, particularly at the national leve.  I think we should encourage rules that allow a variety of platforms and many different kinds of bikes.  If you want uniformity, become an all spec. series (and re-name it Formula Buell).

George

[PJ721]

Hey EH427...I have enough problems keeping up with the LIGHTWEIGHT bikes  :-[  and now you want to let the F2's come down to LWSS or LWSB? Heck...why dont we just let all the "older" middlewights come down...   :o

[Protein Filled]

I know of a few F2's that run the Midwest region that are putting out around 105 hp's. They pull me down the straight like a newer 600! You can put in 2004 F2 forks and get cartridge forks and a good rear shock and have a good handling bike with tons of power.

I do think that making Thunderbike a purse paying class would be nice. The only class that pays for LW riders is GT Lights and there is no way you can be competitive in GTU, GTO or Unlimited GP on a LW bike, regardless of the track. I also think it would atract more entries. Look at Blackhawk when Voice Eclipse put in money for the Thunderbike race. There were quite a few more people entered those two weekends!

[PJ721]

and just to add...look what's already happened to the LW classes....no more or very few...EX500s, FZR400, Hawks...ect...just because the SV came along....the guys running the Older LW bikes...had 3 choices...run what you got, put some cash into what you got to make it able to run with the SV's or join the club and just buy an SV...and all of us that do have SV's aren't putting down 85 HP....so by letting the older MW down in LW...I say all older MW because you just cant let one bike (F2) you'd have to let them all in ...you'll basically force out all the older LWs that are left...might as well just get rid of the LW class and run my SV up in MW? then what about all the 125s and 250s? how are they going to feel? Basically what it comes down to...is all bikes at some point will have to be "retired" or have some money put in them to make them able to run with the new bikes....just my thoughts.....

[salex43]

Did anyone read my post?

My F2 in Supersport trim made 93HP at the rear wheel.  That was in 1993.  And you want that to run in LWSS?  Hey, let's give the bike a 20HP advantage.  

Offer me that opportunity, and I'd go stink up LWSS on an F2.  I'm sure other guys would too.  Is that fair?  It's ridiculous at best.  At least in Thunderbike, there are high HP Buells and SV's to potentially race against.  What else would be fair?  Thunderbike is one of the few Afirmitive Action racing classes there is.

Why not, Ed keys SS bike put out about that much horse power.   ::)