15 Year Olds on 600s

[J-Janisch]

If a rider is qualified and under the referee's descresion, should he/she be aloud to ride a 600 before they're 16?  If one was limited to a Lightweight bike until there 16, how can they accumulate enough points to have a good grid spot at Daytona?  And if one is not aloud to ride a 600, should they be forced to become an expert?  ???

I understand that one has to be 16 to go to Daytona, but what I'm saying is, what if your turning 16 during the year and want to start in the front of the grid at Daytona on a 600 but you don't have enough points to be there (in front).

[slclark65]

No one under the age of 16 is allowed to race at Daytona.  That is a track rule.  I hope that answer your question.  But Kevin Elliott would be the one to talk to about that.  

[Dawn]

If a rider is qualified and under the referee's descresion, should he/she be aloud to ride a 600 before they're 16?  If one was limited to a Lightweight bike until there 16, how can they accumulate enough points to have a good grid spot at Daytona?  And if one is not aloud to ride a 600, should they be forced to become an expert?  ???

I understand that one has to be 16 to go to Daytona, but what I'm saying is, what if your turning 16 during the year and want to start in the front of the grid at Daytona on a 600 but you don't have enough points to be there (in front).

Jessie (I am assuming this  :-/):

You are mopping up in the Lightweight classes on your SV.  Why do you want to move to the 600 class?

Dawn   :)

P.S.  If you do move to the other class, that would mean that Paul would finish a place higher each race.   ;)

[J-Janisch]

Dawn- The reason I want to ride in the 600 class is because I want to some day ride in the Pros.

[Dawn]

Dawn- The reason I want to ride in the 600 class is because I want to some day ride in the Pros.

That's what I figured, but is one more year going to make a difference? or is there a specific time line you are working towards?

Just one note on becoming and expert.  In my own opinion, I think that you should.  I have seen you beat Ed Key and you consistantly finish in the top 5.  You have the talent.  What advantage would it be to remain an amature?


Dawn   :)

[the_weggie_man]

How do you get  a good grid at Daytona 600 races?  Ride your young butt off on a hot SV in the 600 classes until you can legally ride the middleweights.  Unless CCS decides they should have riders classified by their ability and not just age.  Other clubs do it.

[sdiver68]

Matt Wait was gridded dead last @ Daytona and still finished 7th.  Trust me, a 16 yo newly legal 600CC rider gridded dead last and finishing top 10 will get ya noticed as much as winning from the front row.

And Weggie Man is right, the way the point structure is and with most racers not making every weekend, race up and accumulate points, if the rules will allow you to race up.

[mj]

I'm sure that the 16 year age limit has nothing  to do with the riders skill and ability to compete but originates from the from the perceptions of our society today. Although 15 year olds could drive a car or shoot a gun we do not allow them to get a drivers license or to join the military. Sometimes it just sucks to be too young or too old.
Run expert lightweight and win every race.

[the_weggie_man]

Read today's post on Roadracing World "Little Nicky".  WERA and MRA let 14 year old racers run middleweights.   It's called demonstrated ability.  :o

[roadracer797]

Ok for my two cents, if a 15 yr old can show in practice that he can handle the bike I say let him race it. Hell I know some 14 yr olds that can ride liter bikes better then some older guys So let them race if they can prove it to CCS.
MJ
Yea it is the pits getting old and slow, but hey at least we can still have fun right.
Craig

[TZDeSioux]

Jesse has more than demonstrated that he has the skill and the maturity to win races. I say let him ride a 600. As far as turning expert.. you should most definately turn expert but that's for my own selfish reasons :)

[jim_p]

Jesse, The first thing I would do if I was your age and had the talent you have is get to WERA. I race CCS because I'm 33 and live closer to ccs tracks.This is not to sit and bash CCS ,but I have been around this sport off and on since 1985 at different levels and you need to get the attention of a guy named John Ulrich (team Hammer) he is the guy that started alot of pro's careers.I like racing in CCS,but if you are looking to get ahead-Race WERA.How many guys(I know there are some) do you see climbing from Blackhawk to pros?? Daytona wins mean very little(other than personal) win a Suzuki cup race and see what happens.. Ask Ed Key about this ( I know you know him) and see what he says...Don't waste you talent around here-I think you can also race a larger bike at a younger age ...Good luck

[CCS]

The really big picture for CCS is that we are part of a publically-held company. We not only have to be responsible to our riders, but we also have an obligation to the shareholders to maintain socially acceptable standards.

It was hard enough to get our parent company to allow the 14 year olds to compete in what is statistically the second most dangerous form of motorcycle racing, (mile dirt track is the most dangerous). CCS did not allow anyone under 16 until the 2000 season, and if it wasn't for lots of lobbying and promises we had to make (and keep), they still wouldn't be allowed to compete with us today. I understand what you are asking for, I also understand CCS's responsiblity to it's corporate parent. Just like a drivers license, even though all four of my kids could drive my pickup before they were 14, the state wasn't interested in "demonstrated ability", they are more interested in an easily enforced standard that is publically acceptable. Hence, they have all waited until they were 16 to get their drivers license.

I personally have no doubt about Jesse Janisch's ability, and when he reaches the age of 16, he will be able to demonstrate that to all the CCS racers on a 600. Until then, we must follow our rules, and keep our promises.

See you at the races.

[Super Dave]

Jesse, The first thing I would do if I was your age and had the talent you have is get to WERA. I race CCS because I'm 33 and live closer to ccs tracks.This is not to sit and bash CCS ,but I have been around this sport off and on since 1985 at different levels and you need to get the attention of a guy named John Ulrich (team Hammer) he is the guy that started alot of pro's careers.I like racing in CCS,but if you are looking to get ahead-Race WERA.How many guys(I know there are some) do you see climbing from Blackhawk to pros?? Daytona wins mean very little(other than personal) win a Suzuki cup race and see what happens.. Ask Ed Key about this ( I know you know him) and see what he says...Don't waste you talent around here-I think you can also race a larger bike at a younger age ...Good luck

Scott Zampach, Bob Meister, Bob Sandy, Todd Harrington, Ed Key, John Eidenberger, we could go on...

I guess then everyone should probably move to California too.  Many factory pros are from there too.

Too many variables to tell anyone what to do unless you've actually had a pro contract, and even then.  

How many racers have the desire to to it?  Lots.  How many spots are there?  How much money do you have?  How many guys have slipped through John's hands and into obscurity?

If you really want to draw a line, I think the thing to say would be start your knowledge base in dirt track and then move to road racing.  (We could make a long list on that.)

And there probably is no set answer on how to do it.

[jim_p]

S.D.- I knew that my response would start something,But I was the guy that raced with John Eidenberger and traveled around the country racing with him. I know all of the people you listed and I guess I may have forgot about them.Having been around the sport as long as I have, I have an oppinion as to what I think would better Jesse's chances to get noticed.Maybe I'm living in the mid80's but I still think for a young rider he should go where he can get on a 600 and move forward. He knows how to ride,so he does not need lessons,he needs to get exposure and learn to go faster now.I talked with his father the other day and they want to succeed at this,but have a limited budget and won't be racing for the next ten years trying to make it.I think they want the big time and not to be regional champ's.I wish him the best and am now done on this list, since everytime someone has an oppinion someone always has to jump in that persons face.Thanks for pointing out the people I forgot about-John Eidenberger and I are best friends and I should have remembered him at least.But remember he was fast around here but then went to wera for the money and faster comp and so did the Z-man.

[Eric Kelcher]

there are fast people and fast competition in most all regions and clubs. The fast people will chase the contingency money and WERA had more back in the 80's when CCS was just getting rolling things have changed and there has been more contingency money (OEM and overall) with FUSA/CCS than at WERA and the competition level reflects that.

[the_weggie_man]

So apparently it is safer to put a 16 year squid old with no experience on any bike he wishes to ride than have a 15 year old  with 10 years racing experience (flat track,motocross, roadrace and supermotard) climb aboard a middleweight bike.

[r6_philly]

rules are rules, laws are laws, whether they makes sense or not. Obviously it makes sense to the people who make the rules.

Why a 16 year old can choose to race a motorcycle and possible endanger his/her health and can't buy tobacco? Why can you get married before you can drink?

I thinkthe rules are made to 1. protect in most cases 2. like Kevin mentioned, keep the investors happy. Without the rules, CCS wouldn't exist and we would not be able to race on these great tracks on the dates that we race on. We can lobby to change the rules, but if they are not changed, just have to learn to live by it.

[the_weggie_man]

OK, your opinion. That's what makes a free society.  Let's just say we agree to disagree.  I lobbied to get a rule changed, it didn't happen.   Another great thing about our free society,  I don't have to live with it.

[motomadness]

Roadracing World is publishing their Young Guns article.  Jessie, you need to submit your information.  Go to the General tab in this Forum for more information.

[Super Dave]

Much of the Mid to late 80's money came from Yamaha and Suzuki contingency.  Not WERA, CCS, or anybody.  It was $1500 for a win in 1986 on a GSXR750 that RETAILED for $4200 off the floor.

Times have changed.

Jesse needs attention, but you need attention when it is necessary.

Jesse beat Ed at Gingerman.  Ed didn't need to beat Jesse.  Jesse rides well, period.  

Question is:  do you put yourself in the position to do not as well as you could too early, or wait and do it right when you know that the rider and the program is in place.

Jesse will have plenty of opportunities to ride a 600 before racing a 600.  Will one year make a difference?  And is it worth arguing?

I'm sure Jesse can ride an XR750.  Do we need to argue whether he can do that and what age?

Experience is good.  But early entry into something before being COMPLETELY  prepared is different.  And it's a bit different if you're a twenty-something road racer trying to break through.  Then you take chances because your time is limited.  

If you have a little more time, you build a support program around you, learn, prepare, and then...l

BANG!  Where the hell did he come from!

[motomadness]

Super Dave,

Do you have any winter training tips?  Any dirt riding exercises for riding now, and during our season that will enhance the average road racer's skills?  I want to do something before your first riding school.  The team and I plan on going to Daytona for the first race of the season and we all want to do well.

Sean

[the_weggie_man]

I don't believe there is an argument going on here.  Just people's opinions.  Jesse's program will come together where ever and with who ever he decides to ride with. CCS, WERA and all the other groups around the country have good programs and Jesse will decide which are the right ones for him  Actually it will probably be a conglomeration of events with several different organizations.

Regional championships in any organization are nice for a piece of wood on your wall and maybe a little more sponsorship next year but that's about it.  Good results in any event , with any organization at different venues are what will get you recognized. Think Doug Polen who rode across the country in Suzuki Cup events, he won everywhere, not just at his favorite track in his home region.  There are a lot of track specialists out there. Guys that go like hell at one or two tracks but get spanked outside their home region. That's also true with some riders that can win at WERA events but not CCS and vice versa . It takes a special talent to learn tracks quickly and be fast everywhere.  I believe Jesse has the talent.

If  Jesse's learning curve continues at it's current rate and luck stays with him, he hopes to be a top contender in middleweight events next year. Nobody assumes he is going to go out and kick the world's collective butts immediately.  But, he is ready to make the move to the next level and start the learning process for that class.

So, I think the subject is closed. CCS wouldn't change the rule, so be it.  I think we should let Jesse have the last word on this and put it to rest.

[fourandsix]

Over the last several years i have had the oppurtunity to build bikes for many of the Top Racers fromt the Midwest area. Probably the the last most succesfull racer was Todd Harrington , He was regularly beating experts his first full amatuer year , he went on to have a fairly successfull career and if not for a wrist injury he would be racing today. Joe Gill had never won a race as an expert in CCS but was able to run in the Top Ten at AMA 600 Nationals. Larry Denning toiled in obscurity until a few years ago and since has won more yamaha money than anyone the the 3 years.Larry doesn't waste his time going to AMA nationals but his plan works for him.Getting back to Jesse , he will probably be the next superstar to come out of the midwest , he will be better than Todd Harrington and even Z man.If he can't compete in CCS on a 600 who cares he can race it in WERA and then when he is 16 enter it in CCS. In the meantime he can race his SV in all the Expert Classes and give all you guys with 600's fits. By the time his 16th Birthday comes around he will be on the box in the expert classes on his 600. Jesse is a great kid that comes from a great family and will succeeed at any endeavor he takes on .

[J-Janisch]

  Well, I'd like to say thank you to everyone who wrote in, I liked all of the input.
  CCS won't change the rule, thats ok, we're probably going to run WERA in the beginning of the year.  Or at least untill I turn 16.
  If anyone else would like to say anything on this topic just e-mail me, shorty32jaj@hotmail.com.  ;D

[EX#996]

  we're probably going to run WERA in the beginning of the year.  Or at least untill I turn 16.  ;D

Alright!!!!

Paul moved up another position   ;D

Just teasing Jesse.  

Good luck!

Dawn   :)

[J-Janisch]

I'll still be at the CCS races.  But only on an sv, unfortunately.  :'( haha
-Jesse-

[TZDeSioux]

Alright!!!!

Paul moved up another position   ;D

Just teasing Jesse.  

Good luck!

Dawn   :)

yeah right behind me! 65x10=650 :D

[EX#996]

I'll still be at the CCS races.  But only on an sv, unfortunately.  :'( haha
-Jesse-

Shucks!!!!

Oh well - See you at the races.

Dawn   ;)

[fourandsix]

Super Dave,

Do you have any winter training tips?  Any dirt riding exercises for riding now, and during our season that will enhance the average road racer's skills?  I want to do something before your first riding school.  The team and I plan on going to Daytona for the first race of the season and we all want to do well.

Sean

Use the tried and true Larry Denning Workout! Sleep late get up and sit in recliner , then play video games while consuming large quantities of Dr Pepper. He has used this training regimen the last few years.

[J-Janisch]

haha nice training tips Jim.  I think I'll stay to the regular, sleep till 10:00; then go ice riding ALL DAY LONG!!!
Oh yah Dawn - CCS is going to make me an Expert

[oh344ccs]

Hey, Jesse did you contact RRW? (young guns)  I got to see you ride at Gingerman this year, it would be a shame if you didn't cause I think early exposure will be harder to get then anything.  It's too bad CCS won't let you race a 600, Will you be running EX in WERA?  Without a full season under your belt they may let you run AM?

[J-Janisch]

Yah I did send in for the entry form for young guns.  I will be an Expert in WERA next year.  I probably shouldn't stay amatuer anyways, I need the experiance with the faster guys.